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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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To: The Developers (Ability To Build Own Player Made Ship/Structures)
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Fifty Three
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-04-16 08:26:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifty Three
Hulls like these...
Frigates
Destroyers
Cruisers
Freighters
Mining Barges
Exhumers
Industrial Command
etc.

-We have to research each Structure/Hull type (set the type of hull i.e. "Battleship" when drawing up a blueprint for research)
- Set the amount of slots for each...Low,Medium,High, also when making the blueprint to research (Note: only a certain amount of Low/Medium/High slots can be created depending on the size of the ship ]
- Set the Reactor output(recharge rate) (Note: Larger Reactors adds mass+cost more resources to make)
- Set the Capacitor Capacity
- Set Hull Mass (Note: This affects “Structure” hit points) (Note Also: Increasing the hull mass will cost more resources, like anything else that is increased)
- Set Armour mass (which is evenly distributed around the Ship/Structure, since Eve is simple and don't take into account all six sides)
- Set Shield Generator output (As with anything larger...faster shield generators add more mass+cost more resources in minerals/ore)
- Set Generator Capacity
- Set Power Grid
- Set CPU Output
- Set etc.

The person goes to a new tab/button to select “Make Blueprint” and a screen/window will appear. Then select “Ship” or “Structure”, then fill in the above, and press “Research” button in the requested “Make Blueprint” screen.

Note: These player made Ships/Structures will NOT have the Role bonuses and/or Skill Level efficiency bonuses like other ships/Structures.

Note: We select the Look of the structure or Ship, by choosing one of the faction's ship's structures from the class that the player made structure/ship falls under. i.e. Battleship class(from caldari, amarr, etc.) for a player made battleship.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#2 - 2017-04-16 08:47:55 UTC
This kind of thing has been suggested in the past, and it is not a viable option. The balance risks with a "create your own ship" system are way too high, it's almost inevitable that there will be a combination that is overpowered and once it is found that's all anyone will ever build. The only way to be safe is to massively pre-nerf the whole thing, in which case nobody will bother wasting their resources on a trash-tier ship.
Fifty Three
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-04-16 09:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifty Three
Hi, I get what you are saying. Too bad people are scared to open the game up more and not be so restrictive.

NOTE: Everyone could do it, so from my perspective it is even. Also, if someone has a fairly powerful ship or starbase/citadel made, then people, like how they do now, can cooperate to take it down.

Continuing on with the suggestion, though I know, it as you said, is not viable...

-If it is a Citadel/Starbase that is created, then that player made structure can always be destroyed in one attack, given their is enough firepower.

-The citadel structures, will have shields as ships and recharge in real time, as they take damage. Perhaps can make "Rig slots" to fit extra shield recharging systems, give Shield capacity, increase Reactor Recharge rate.

-The amount of modules(Cloning, Reprocessing, etc.) that can fit on a player made citadel/structure depends on the Size of the Citadel in Mass/Power Grid/CPU Output etc.

Note: Larger systems on a Ship or structure, need a large "Structure Mass", i.e. cannot have a 1 thousand Kilo gram mass player made corvette, carrying a 1 thousand kilogram Capacitor, or even a bit smaller, because there is no space for it or other Systems like reactor etc.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-04-16 09:38:17 UTC
There has to be a basic starting point for any construction project - stuff you buy in order to build. In Eve, you start with a hull. Even a frigate hull will normally have 9 module and 3 rig slots allowing millions of different ships to be built. Every ship in the game can be unique.

A concept where all ships are assembled from subsystems like the T3 cruisers might work but would be difficult, if not impossible to balance - and balance is important. If there is an optimum solution to any problem, Eve players will find it and it will dominate the game until CCP swings the nerf-bat. Recent examples include the Ishtar, Svipul and currently Machariel.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#5 - 2017-04-16 09:50:09 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
NOTE: Everyone could do it, so from my perspective it is even.


The same applies to everything else in EVE, and yet we still expect ships to be balanced.

Quote:
Also, if someone has a fairly powerful ship or starbase/citadel made, then people, like how they do now, can cooperate to take it down.


It doesn't work like that, because there's never going to be just one. Once someone figures out the optimal choices to make the best ship/citadel/whatever under your system that's what everyone is going to make. The overpowered thing is going to be all over the game, and push out everything else.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2017-04-16 09:53:53 UTC
Everyone being able to do it doesn't make it balanced. Ships need to be balanced between eachother. These ships would either be better than the ships we have now, and make current ships irrelevant, or they wouldn't be as good as what we have now, and would be irrelevant themselves.

New ships, no matter how they come about or how 'cool' they are, need a role or niche that is unique to them. Otherwise they will upset the balance of existing ships.

You see ideas like yours in 4x games because individual ship balance is not important. Death stacks are balanced by the economic and technological power of an empire, which all started at the same level at the beginning of the game.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#7 - 2017-04-16 10:25:37 UTC
Balance nightmare, massive dev commitment for a questionable return...

Nice suggestion but I feel devs got other things that have a bigger "bang per buck" they could be working on.
Cade Windstalker
#8 - 2017-04-16 18:42:56 UTC
I'm going to go with "oh gods no".

This is effectively ship point-buy. Anyone who has ever played any variety of Tabletop RPGs has probably at least seen and read through a point-buy system. They tend to be balance nightmares with the GM having to manually restrict what players can and can't do or things get out of hand quickly as min-maxers quickly find the ideal combination of points for a given objective.

This isn't a case of "making the game less restrictive" this is a case of taking any semblence of balance in the game and breaking it over your knee. With this you could make ships with few or no downsides, and at that point that's what *everyone* is going to use.

A Sandbox means an open world that players can explore, play, and build in but a "Game" means a set of rules and restrictions. What you're proposing is taking away a *ton* of those rules and restrictions.

Just no, and please stop with the BS attacks on others character like "Too bad people are scared to open the game up more and not be so restrictive." No one is scared, they just have common sense and a little knowledge of game design. That's like accusing someone of being scared because they don't want to put a loaded gun to their head and pull the trigger. That's not fear, that's common sense and so is not implementing *anything* like this in a game that pretends to have any semblance of balance in it!
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9 - 2017-04-16 20:12:35 UTC
I can't tell if you're trolling by constantly saying "to the developers" in your titles, but I'll bite. What do you think the point of this section of the forums is, exactly?
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#10 - 2017-04-17 02:02:25 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I can't tell if you're trolling by constantly saying "to the developers" in your titles, but I'll bite. What do you think the point of this section of the forums is, exactly?


To throw crap at the wall and see what sticks obviously... Judging by the amount of horrible ideas he's come up with so far

Wormholer for life.
Cade Windstalker
#11 - 2017-04-17 03:00:48 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I can't tell if you're trolling by constantly saying "to the developers" in your titles, but I'll bite. What do you think the point of this section of the forums is, exactly?


To throw crap at the wall and see what sticks obviously... Judging by the amount of horrible ideas he's come up with so far


I'm not a fan of discouraging people from posting their ideas, I'm just also not a fan of when people don't seem to have done any research or really put any thought into their idea first either...
MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#12 - 2017-04-17 04:03:29 UTC
Because you would get this monstrosity.

http://i.imgur.com/GsY0lod.png


That is why no.
Fifty Three
Doomheim
#13 - 2017-04-17 04:58:18 UTC
Suppose the player made structures and ships had NO Resistance with their shield, Armour, and Structure? Also could not Fit Shield resistance systems+Armour resistance Systems?

They only rely on their hit points, from the three areas,shield/armour/structure. Still with be over powered you think?
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#14 - 2017-04-17 05:23:31 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
Suppose the player made structures and ships had NO Resistance with their shield, Armour, and Structure? Also could not Fit Shield resistance systems+Armour resistance Systems?

They only rely on their hit points, from the three areas,shield/armour/structure. Still with be over powered you think?



Ha Ha HA
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

............
................
........................

erm, no

I would be sure to design a frigate with a Battlecruiser sized powerplant
or a Battleship with a Titan sized powersystem, GL capping one of those out.
MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#15 - 2017-04-17 05:54:59 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
Suppose the player made structures and ships had NO Resistance with their shield, Armour, and Structure? Also could not Fit Shield resistance systems+Armour resistance Systems?

They only rely on their hit points, from the three areas,shield/armour/structure. Still with be over powered you think?



Yes, even then, still too powerful. If you allow players to modify CPU, PG, number of slots, drone bay, etc. all for simply a higher isk cost the bigger you make it? It will be abused.

here is a rattlesnake. http://i.imgur.com/WCXkADX.png
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#16 - 2017-04-17 10:23:59 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I can't tell if you're trolling by constantly saying "to the developers" in your titles, but I'll bite. What do you think the point of this section of the forums is, exactly?


To throw crap at the wall and see what sticks obviously... Judging by the amount of horrible ideas he's come up with so far


I'm not a fan of discouraging people from posting their ideas, I'm just also not a fan of when people don't seem to have done any research or really put any thought into their idea first either...


I've got nothing against people posting ideas. This guy just doesn't seem to have any idea what Eve is and how the mechanics interact with each other.

Wormholer for life.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#17 - 2017-04-17 11:32:54 UTC
Your idea would totally wreck pvp. For the last decade a good FC took the time to learn all the ships, their abilities, strengths and weaknesses. When engaging an enemy fleet (or not) a competent FC has been able to prioritize targets from most to least dangerous to his fleet and, using skill and knowledge, could win. Your idea would totally unbalance ships/fits and make all fights random. Those that put in time and effort to acquire experience and skill would be punished.

If you're trying to make this into a random, no skill game, then your idea is spot on. Otherwise it is pretty bad.


Right now when a mauler lands on grid I can assume it's a slowish low damage tanky ship that quite possibly has a cyno on it - if I don't care about the cyno aspect then I would save this slow, low damage, tanky ship until toward the end of the fight. When an orthrus lands on grid I know it's a fast kiting frigate/cruiser killer - I know I have to get out there, tackle this thing and kill it or it will shred all the smaller ships in my fleet.

After your change it would all just be 'ships'. The only reliable way to win at that point would be to bring more 'ships'. The ability to count and then decide the larger of 2 numbers is not an interesting and exciting way to conduct epic space combat between immortal pilots.
Cade Windstalker
#18 - 2017-04-17 14:41:02 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
Suppose the player made structures and ships had NO Resistance with their shield, Armour, and Structure? Also could not Fit Shield resistance systems+Armour resistance Systems?

They only rely on their hit points, from the three areas,shield/armour/structure. Still with be over powered you think?


Smart bet is yes.

That's sort of the point here, you or I or anyone in this thread can't actually guess how stupidly OP someone would manage to make one of these custom ships but the smart bet is that someone would come up with something ridiculously broken pretty quickly.

At that point it's a nightmare of exceptions and ongoing work for CCP to support something like this which has a high chance of causing problems for the existing ships regardless.

That's why this is a bad idea.