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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Change local to region - Updated with mockup
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Cade Windstalker
#61 - 2017-04-14 15:01:02 UTC
manus wrote:
Only an ignorant person would believe this wouldnt be the case.


Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence or even references to current behavior that might reasonably lead to the behavior you're saying will occur. You have none of that, you're just saying that if we magically change Local to a Region wide chat channel that people will somehow be more active in it, despite that killing the few uses Local already sees. Namely smack-talk with people you're about to fight, fighting currently, or have just fought and throwing out things like "GF" or "Good Fight" and the like. None of that applies or works with a region-wide channel.

manus wrote:
It is also voluntary if you want to participate in local chat. And it will also be voluntary if you want to participate if local chat was replaced with regional chat. But if you are so scared of socialising, there could be a setting to mute the chat.


Again though, if it's already voluntary to participate in Local, and it would be voluntary to participate in your Region chat, then why do we need Region chat? We already have all of these public channels, people just choose not to participate in them.

You have made zero case for this being any kind of improvement, you've just assumed it will be and gone from there.


manus wrote:
Yes i have, and its not that bad. If you are concerned its a problem, there can be a restriction to link contracts. A timer. Maybe people would form actual trade chats then.


Trade chats and forums already exist, people spam contracts in trade-hub local because they're trying to reach a wide audience. Also there is currently no mechanism to prevent links of any sort in any channel, so that's more work CCP would have to do to implement this and another strike against it being worthwhile. It also wouldn't actually stop the spam, you just tell people "Search for X on contracts!" instead of linking directly.

manus wrote:
Quick idea. What if there was a regional trade chat. Everyone participates by default but it can be disabled if you want. This chat will be for spamming contracts etc. In the general chat it will cost money to link. (This is to not restrict players from communicating contracts, but at the same time prevent people from spamming. in trade chat there will be less restrictions - for example only on very obvious spam perhaps)


There are already trade channels and there's zero reason to restrict trade to a single region. Someone currently out in Period Basis may want to sell something currently sitting in Jita.

There is no need of a Region wide channel, and I think it's been made very clear that very very few people want it, and those that do just want local removed because they think it will make their gameplay easier or better.
manus
Subhypersonics
#62 - 2017-04-14 15:15:09 UTC
Quote:
Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence


Rofl. If you cant see how this leads to a more active chat i cant help you. Besides, if you are so smart, when is the last time you had an idea? And what was it?
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#63 - 2017-04-14 16:40:35 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:


I don't really care about who uses it for what and how often. I just want it so bot wither and die. Other than botting, what is local good for?



Thing is without having to get technical because I am not myself a programmer, but i know a few people who are, Bots do not use 'local chat' to operate in the way you are implying. They however do use local.
Cade Windstalker
#64 - 2017-04-14 17:30:37 UTC
manus wrote:
Quote:
Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence


Rofl. If you cant see how this leads to a more active chat i cant help you. Besides, if you are so smart, when is the last time you had an idea? And what was it?


I can see how this would lead to a more spam-filled chat, I don't see how it would lead to anything usable or enjoyable for the vast majority of players, considering "local is/gave me cancer" (or similar phrases) is practically a meme in Eve.

Shooting down your bad idea does not require that I have a good idea to propose in its place. That is not how this works.

For reference though, most of the ideas I have that are Eve related I put through my own meat-grinder of "why won't this work" and very very very few of them pass. The last one to pass got posted in the new Little Things thread, you're welcome to read it there. Personally though I don't feel it's my job to play Game Dev, CCP has people they pay for that, I'm here to play not design the game for them.
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#65 - 2017-04-19 22:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tessa Sage
Max Deveron wrote:
manus wrote:
Heres a quick example of how players can interact with each other. For example by linking the system they are in, and saying what they are doing. It could also be someone asking for help, you get the idea.


Region chat



Uhm yep, now add all the spam from the trade hubs, the clear spam spam guys garbage, and any crosstalk.......and your msg is quickly lost in mere seconds in any region with a trade hub.
....

YOU CAN NOT GET RID OF LOCAL, for a number of reasons SO QUIT TRYING!!


I don't know of any greater source of in-game frustration and fatigue than having to resolve conflict or confusion in comms when the same relevant tidbits have already been affirmed in the in-game chat channels available. Do not count on third party apps for the entirety of login, in fact, that is a disgrace to the user's CPU / multi-thread expectations.

Place intel, fleet and pings of any regional applicability in the same gosh darn text thread, away from prying eyes. Talking in local is going to get your butt camped / blown up faster.

Whether lowsec or null, get rid of existing local and you have Constellation supplying info to people who are blue to that corner of space -- simply throw in an Encounter Surveillance module at high-traffic / regional gates and other points of interest..

Hisec, the same channel becomes more sporting venue; a blend of regional @everyone's and newly posted contracts auto-linked. What is wonderful about reviving the Constellation chat channel in this manner is you can then set filters for only seeing updates and auto-linked text scrawls from particular entities at your leisure.

Best,

Tessa
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2017-04-21 07:44:08 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
manus wrote:
Only an ignorant person would believe this wouldnt be the case.


Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence or even references to current behavior that might reasonably lead to the behavior you're saying will occur. You have none of that, you're just saying that if we magically change Local to a Region wide chat channel that people will somehow be more active in it, despite that killing the few uses Local already sees. Namely smack-talk with people you're about to fight, fighting currently, or have just fought and throwing out things like "GF" or "Good Fight" and the like. None of that applies or works with a region-wide channel.

manus wrote:
It is also voluntary if you want to participate in local chat. And it will also be voluntary if you want to participate if local chat was replaced with regional chat. But if you are so scared of socialising, there could be a setting to mute the chat.


Again though, if it's already voluntary to participate in Local, and it would be voluntary to participate in your Region chat, then why do we need Region chat? We already have all of these public channels, people just choose not to participate in them.

You have made zero case for this being any kind of improvement, you've just assumed it will be and gone from there.


manus wrote:
Yes i have, and its not that bad. If you are concerned its a problem, there can be a restriction to link contracts. A timer. Maybe people would form actual trade chats then.


Trade chats and forums already exist, people spam contracts in trade-hub local because they're trying to reach a wide audience. Also there is currently no mechanism to prevent links of any sort in any channel, so that's more work CCP would have to do to implement this and another strike against it being worthwhile. It also wouldn't actually stop the spam, you just tell people "Search for X on contracts!" instead of linking directly.

manus wrote:
Quick idea. What if there was a regional trade chat. Everyone participates by default but it can be disabled if you want. This chat will be for spamming contracts etc. In the general chat it will cost money to link. (This is to not restrict players from communicating contracts, but at the same time prevent people from spamming. in trade chat there will be less restrictions - for example only on very obvious spam perhaps)


There are already trade channels and there's zero reason to restrict trade to a single region. Someone currently out in Period Basis may want to sell something currently sitting in Jita.

There is no need of a Region wide channel, and I think it's been made very clear that very very few people want it, and those that do just want local removed because they think it will make their gameplay easier or better.

1. Actually It does work with region channels - you still have local but don't appear unless you type it in. You in appear in all others. Solved, can still smack talk.

2. Why do we need region chat you ask? Local gives too much free intel which makes blueballing extremely likely. No local fights like in WH space can quickly turn from a gank by the ganker to a gank by the defender. Have active scouts is work but work should be rewarded. Spontaneous and dynamic gameplay > Theres too many, dock up dock up, or theres only 10 people warp to X. That's boring and uninteresting. Fog of war is always a better option.

3. There is a reason for region wide channels.

a) For one, its going to be easier to find fights, many times I've been warping around system to system looking for a target and not been able to find one. With region wide channels I could find a target in my region, use a locator on that target, find out if its docked and which system its in.

b) For home defense its extremely useful, you watch region chat and you see new targets enter the region channel, you 1) know they're online, 2) know they're currently moving around or just logged in.

c) Hotdrop defense, hotdrops are one of the most ******** mechanisms in game to find and get easy ganks. One of those reasons is the time it takes to organized and prepare for a counter drop or defense fleet to get to likely target. With region defense you will see the hotdropper enter region, you can organized a defense fleet or counter drop fleet knowing the cyno ship will be arriving. This is opposed to having the guy suddenly appear in your ratting system, drop, gank and all leave before fleet is assembled or arrives.

d) Social aspects of regional chat. Being able to talk to others in region who may not actually be in a channel you're in is much more interesting. Being able to announce an incursion or pvp group globally rather than only to allies is also beneficial. If you've been in space that both allied and hostile and a roaming gang comes in, being able to announce to all makes for a better chance of everyone ending up preparing and fighting rather than just your allies.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)