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CCP hates Space Truckers in alpha clones WHY?

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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2017-04-14 10:03:27 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I apologize that you feel you're not getting your $0/month worth from this game.


#nopoorspls

Modern translation:
#nocontentpls

Edit: The subscription model isn't this game at its worst. The design we've ended up with where you have to throw a lot more than $15/month at it to be "competitive" (or #notpoor) is.


Total rubbish. You only need real life cash to be competitive if you're a total scrub without 2 brain cells to rub together, and even then it usually doesn't make you any more competitive.

Pirate

And a little patience.

Except, look at this from the point of view of someone who's never touched EVE before. On the launcher, one of the first things a newbie is going to see-before that NPE CCP keep working on!-is "Flex your Plex/Unlock a world of advantages with Plex." What's this "world of advantages?" Does that mean that if I don't buy Plex, I'm at a *dis*advantage? Without any prior knowledge of the game, they're going to think this is another one of those free-to-play/pay-to-cheat whale traps, and a lot of them go straight for the door because they expect the game to cheat them out of their life savings in pursuit of those "I win" moments. The rest of the free-to-play market has taught a lot of them to be positively terrified of any game which tries to sell them an advantage. They know that's especially powerful and dangerous in any cutthroat PvP game, which EVE is.

Perception is important.

A signature :o
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#42 - 2017-04-14 10:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Intensive PvP fun can drain ISK and lack of time for grinding or setting 0.01 orders on market can influence your ability to fund this kind of PvP fun. That is why PLEX exists.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2017-04-14 10:47:32 UTC
We know. How is a newbie who's never seen the game before supposed to know?

A signature :o
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2017-04-14 10:59:51 UTC
Go get a sub or get lost. Nobody will miss you.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Keno Skir
#45 - 2017-04-14 11:42:42 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I apologize that you feel you're not getting your $0/month worth from this game.


#nopoorspls

Modern translation:
#nocontentpls

Edit: The subscription model isn't this game at its worst. The design we've ended up with where you have to throw a lot more than $15/month at it to be "competitive" (or #notpoor) is.


Total rubbish. You only need real life cash to be competitive if you're a total scrub without 2 brain cells to rub together, and even then it usually doesn't make you any more competitive.

Pirate

And a little patience.

Except, look at this from the point of view of someone who's never touched EVE before. On the launcher, one of the first things a newbie is going to see-before that NPE CCP keep working on!-is "Flex your Plex/Unlock a world of advantages with Plex." What's this "world of advantages?" Does that mean that if I don't buy Plex, I'm at a *dis*advantage? Without any prior knowledge of the game, they're going to think this is another one of those free-to-play/pay-to-cheat whale traps, and a lot of them go straight for the door because they expect the game to cheat them out of their life savings in pursuit of those "I win" moments. The rest of the free-to-play market has taught a lot of them to be positively terrified of any game which tries to sell them an advantage. They know that's especially powerful and dangerous in any cutthroat PvP game, which EVE is.

Perception is important.


Don't move the goalposts, you literally said the game requires more than $15 a month to be competitive which it does not.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#46 - 2017-04-14 13:44:15 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I apologize that you feel you're not getting your $0/month worth from this game.


#nopoorspls

Modern translation:
#nocontentpls

Edit: The subscription model isn't this game at its worst. The design we've ended up with where you have to throw a lot more than $15/month at it to be "competitive" (or #notpoor) is.


You are doing it wrong.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#47 - 2017-04-14 18:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
If you are Alpha, you dont pay for all the things, so you cant use all the things. Its so simple. Its like infinite trial.

Actual competitivness is a lot more complex idea. Depends on so many factors in so complex game. But of course you can maximize your chances in what you do by going Omega and using all the features it provides. Its like buying full game.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#48 - 2017-04-14 19:33:33 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Cancel once, not enough? Cancel twice, enough? Or maybe not? They would make you cancel everyday, to show them "you are perfectly sure", if they could. I see those mitigation mechanics everywhere. God knows how bad it would be if these things would not be regulated by law. Lifetime subscriptions without the option to resign?


They have this already in real life.... its called the mob. Blood in blood out.Twisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2017-04-14 20:39:11 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:


Don't move the goalposts, you literally said the game requires more than $15 a month to be competitive which it does not.

Not everyone dreams of being that awesome subcap solo PvP guy.

Some of them dream of being that industrial mogul or a capship pilot, which means.... oh. Right. Alts.

A signature :o
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#50 - 2017-04-14 21:10:12 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Not everyone dreams of being that awesome subcap solo PvP guy.

Some of them dream of being that industrial mogul or a capship pilot, which means.... oh. Right. Alts.


Or one account and friends. This is a multiplayer game after all.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#51 - 2017-04-14 23:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Not everyone dreams of being that awesome subcap solo PvP guy.

Some of them dream of being that industrial mogul or a capship pilot, which means.... oh. Right. Alts.


Or one account and friends. This is a multiplayer game after all.

It's a good idea, but not allowed. It's actually a bannable offense.

Just get a sub, mate. In U.S. dollars, it comes to $.5 per day. If you play just two hours per day, that's 25 cents per hour. Some comparisons:
-Work at job at (U.S.) minimum wage: $7.25 per hour.
-Buy a $20 game on Steam and finish it in 30 hours: $0.66 cents per hour. (If you kind of suck at finishing games like I do, then it takes longer, so more bargain per hour. Of course, if the game sucks (and most do) and you only spend a few hours playing... crap, now you're into like $4.00 per hour or something).
-Go to a cheapish bar, buy a beer, and drink it in 0.5 hours: $6.00 per hour.
-Buy a Starbucks coffee, get to your desk, take the lid off, and knock it over: approx. $1,080.00 per hour (depending on how may deci-seconds it took to tump over).

It only takes about US $0.5 per day to play Eve. Best deal around. It will keep you off the streets or highways, and iIf you're married, it might keep you out of bars. Which might be a good thing for home harmony and happiness.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2017-04-15 00:49:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shallanna Yassavi
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Not everyone dreams of being that awesome subcap solo PvP guy.

Some of them dream of being that industrial mogul or a capship pilot, which means.... oh. Right. Alts.


Or one account and friends. This is a multiplayer game after all.

It's a good idea, but not allowed. It's actually a bannable offense.

Just get a sub, mate. In U.S. dollars, it comes to $.5 per day. If you play just two hours per day, that's 25 cents per hour. Some comparisons:
-Work at job at (U.S.) minimum wage: $7.25 per hour.
-Buy a $20 game on Steam and finish it in 30 hours: $0.66 cents per hour. (If you kind of suck at finishing games like I do, then it takes longer, so more bargain per hour. Of course, if the game sucks (and most do) and you only spend a few hours playing... crap, now you're into like $4.00 per hour or something).
-Go to a cheapish bar, buy a beer, and drink it in 0.5 hours: $6.00 per hour.
-Buy a Starbucks coffee, get to your desk, take the lid off, and knock it over: approx. $90.00 per hour (depending on how may deci-seconds it took to tump over).

It only takes about US $0.5 per day to play Eve. Best deal around. It will keep you off the streets or highways, and iIf you're married, it might keep you out of bars. Which might be a good thing for home harmony and happiness.

I've got one. For now, anyway.

The game is designed to get you to buy more than one. That's what makes it a whaling expedition. They've played with making multiboxing more cumbersome, but running multiple toons in parallel is still more powerful than running one.

Sonya wasn't talking about account sharing, but about actual cooperation with other players who bring their own accounts, which has its other limits. One account has a hard limit of 33 research and 33 industry jobs, and one toon actively doing things at any given time. If you're "serious", that's not enough.

Cyno alts are by definition always there when you need them and incapable of (intentionally) dropping you into a fight you don't want to deal with. Consolidation of industry and production means more for you if you don't completely saturate the market for something.

Edit: Oh, and spais and corp theft. If you try to spai on anything big with just one account, your career is over before it starts because API keys.

A signature :o
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#53 - 2017-04-15 18:21:14 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Not everyone dreams of being that awesome subcap solo PvP guy.

Some of them dream of being that industrial mogul or a capship pilot, which means.... oh. Right. Alts.


Or one account and friends. This is a multiplayer game after all.

It's a good idea, but not allowed. It's actually a bannable offense.

Just get a sub, mate. In U.S. dollars, it comes to $.5 per day. If you play just two hours per day, that's 25 cents per hour. Some comparisons:
-Work at job at (U.S.) minimum wage: $7.25 per hour.
-Buy a $20 game on Steam and finish it in 30 hours: $0.66 cents per hour. (If you kind of suck at finishing games like I do, then it takes longer, so more bargain per hour. Of course, if the game sucks (and most do) and you only spend a few hours playing... crap, now you're into like $4.00 per hour or something).
-Go to a cheapish bar, buy a beer, and drink it in 0.5 hours: $6.00 per hour.
-Buy a Starbucks coffee, get to your desk, take the lid off, and knock it over: approx. $90.00 per hour (depending on how may deci-seconds it took to tump over).

It only takes about US $0.5 per day to play Eve. Best deal around. It will keep you off the streets or highways, and iIf you're married, it might keep you out of bars. Which might be a good thing for home harmony and happiness.


I personally have never bought plex or used one to pay for time in game, and have consistently had 5ish accounts. Your sarcasm is adorable, though. Back to the point here mate, you don't need to sub multiple accounts for any playstyle in game.

But if you think the right advice for a multiplayer game is to tell people to sub more accounts so you can play solo instead of joining a group and playing with friends, well....
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#54 - 2017-04-15 18:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Alts are always fine. Bots and input broadcasting are not. CCP dont hate Alpha truckers. They just have to pay to have better license.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Namaan
Cursoribus
#55 - 2017-04-16 02:02:57 UTC
There is an easy way to make Alpha truckers better, and its the same as anything else. You make gear that is useful to all, but more valued to Alpha... For example Navy issue ships are gold to Alphas, and usually left behind by Omegas that take on T2 skills.

Should we make navy Haulers? Maybe, maybe not, but imo thats the best way to address the issue, and not by throwing more free skills at Alpha.
ISD Buldath
#56 - 2017-04-16 05:44:23 UTC
I just realised the title reminds me of the "If Google was a guy" series.

~ISD Buldath

Instructor King of the Forums! Knight of the General Discussion

Support, Training and Resources Division

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#57 - 2017-04-23 19:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: hog butter
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
hog butter wrote:
So i have paid for the game over a dozen months and never played it due to cancellations mysteriously not going through. So to those who say I'm not getting my moneys worth didn't read the post.


Quote:
I discovered alpha clones so I resumed my space trucking


Trust me, we read your post.

Also, I'm sorry your extended trail gives you a taste of what you can do instead of giving you the entire cake for free.



Yeah I think your missing the point if you read the post.

I have plenty of money to pay for a subscription. CCP did continually ignore my account cancellation requests via the account editing function of the website. I had to do it 2-3 per instance for it to work then make sure by logging back on to see that it was still canceled days later. CCP knows what it was doing by making it difficult to cancel the subscriptions and they knew they would have people paying and not playing.

I payed for probably nearly a year of EVE and never played. The first time they gave me back some of my time and skill points. The other two times it happens they gave me nothing. I quit playing EVE because CCP customer service didn't treat me well. I am willing to return to play on my accounts in Alpha clones because I feel I recuperating the money CCP stole. I have money to waste on video games but why buy Omega on any of my accounts when CCP treated me poorly?

Alpha clones for the win!


Back to the main topic:

Why penalize Space Trucking when every other gaming aspect seems to get a level 3 in the primary skill and in this case that would be Industrial ship command.

As for Navy or Pirate faction hauler HELLO whey have they not done this?

On the topic of tech 1 cloak:
I get AFK cloaking is a bad Idea for anything with firepower but a partial cloaking device that maybe didn't cloak so much as greatly reduce your signature radius and only fit to industrial ships should be in the game. The fact that it isn't is my main argument CCP hates alpha clones that Space Truck. This hurts future players that may be like me and think Space Trucking is their favorite aspect of EVE. I don't care if I loose a bunch of value of cargo that will not kill my account. Losing your assets your hauling for the budding Space Trucker could be a setback of weeks if not months.

CCP has made the risk way to great through essential neutering the capability of risk arbitrage to be practiced by Alphas while at the same time offering it as a career path through agents. I'm not sure CCP even understands this game sometimes and I hate to say this CCP seems to be trolling new players.
Vokan Narkar
Doomheim
#58 - 2017-04-23 22:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vokan Narkar
hog butter wrote:

stuff

First of all, ignore toxic trolls like Sonya Corvinus who spam the forums with hate towards alpha clones. I don't even understand why is this guy still allowed to spread the hatery on anyone who wants to play this game for free. Moderators where are you?

Second. EVE Online is now free2play game with microtransactions. At leasts that how CPP presents it nowadays (source: https://www.eveonline.com/ ). Those who says otherwise are only jealous because they have or had to pay for it. However, if you want to play for free you have to accept the limitations/disadvantages of alpha clone. If you are not okay with it you need to buy PLEX either with real money or ingame money.

Now to the topic. I am alpha clone myself right now and I do not think hauling is that much restricted as you say so. Yes there are few things I am not satisfied with myself (such as gallente alpha clone advantage of the specialized ships for hauling and lvl 1 skill only for the Industrial Ship skill) but overally I think there are way more restricted activities to alpha clones than hauling. Industry and mining for example - while you can build a thousand different items, you can only build the t1 stuff that has almost no value so whats the point. And for mining there is only single efficient ship you can fly and thats Venture, ship you get for free several times by career agents and there is no better choice if you want to mine as alpha. Haulers at least can fly the small and larger t1 indy. and actually thats not all you can use. There is plenty of options what to fly to be most safe or officient for different cargo even if its not an industrial ship. Also hauling is usually the sub-activity of trading. Keep that in mind.

Having no cloak makes it more risky but I do haul through lowsec and I have lost only a few ships so far. I do not fly the larger indy in lowsec though my current setup hauls around 8k cargo to maximize my chances to escape offenders on the way. That means I do not make huge profit on the run but well I do it for fun or from need, not to get enough ISK for PLEX. Maybe thats your problem - we have to accept that not every activity pays off the same. If you want to earn for PLEX you need to do something that only handful of players are willing to do (risk). And while you could haul a 1b conctract to make a 100mil profit, it is very likely you will get suicide ganked in high sec and there is not much you can do about it with alpha clone (note I do not say it's not possible to avoid it). So thats also not the way...

Either way - there could be some improvements to be made about hauling, but compared to other activities you can do on alpha clone hauling is actually quite option-rich activity.

"Navy hauler" is not a bad idea, but then we should need a "Navy mining ship" as well or just some new slightly better/specialized ORE mining ship for alphas. I will start a new thread on player features/suggestion forums. Got a better idea.
hog butter
Romex Inc.
#59 - 2017-04-26 06:20:17 UTC
Vokan Narkar wrote:
hog butter wrote:

stuff


Having no cloak makes it more risky but I do haul through lowsec and I have lost only a few ships so far. I do not fly the larger indy in lowsec though my current setup hauls around 8k cargo to maximize my chances to escape offenders on the way. That means I do not make huge profit on the run but well I do it for fun or from need, not to get enough ISK for PLEX. Maybe thats your problem - we have to accept that not every activity pays off the same. If you want to earn for PLEX you need to do something that only handful of players are willing to do (risk). And while you could haul a 1b conctract to make a 100mil profit, it is very likely you will get suicide ganked in high sec and there is not much you can do about it with alpha clone (note I do not say it's not possible to avoid it). So thats also not the way...




I have never hauled via contracts I only see rip offs. I have only ever hauled for my own needs vis-a-vi my own market speculation. as a result my eve sessions are 90% gate jumps. I will jump between 80-120 gates in my tech 1 cargo ship in an average play session of 5-6 hours. If my margins hold it will take me 2 weeks to PLEX net profit and that will reduce if I PLEX on account my trade skills in margin trading become unlocked. So On the contrary I am asking if anyone thinks because you can make large amounts of ISK is that why industrial ships are capped at level 1 in ship command. I think its weird to emphasis this part of the game for new players when it easily is more risky in loss of net worth then most newbie activities in the game.
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