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Use Randomization and Contract Slots to Make the Bounty System FUN
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#21 - 2017-04-11 09:44:34 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Why aren't their bounty tiers like insurance.

I pay 1m for a small bounty.
10m for medium bounty, etc etc etc.
If someone has a bounty you can upgrade it for the appropriate cost. And each successive tier provides more incentives and lesser isk restrictions to hunt that person down.


Do not remember if Op's video mentioned hard numbers on a scale like i put....

But i agree there should be tiers, and bounty's should be more expensive as a minimum than what it currently is.
I also like the idea you have about upgrading it to next tier if you desired, so long as you can not degrade it.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#22 - 2017-04-11 09:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Max Deveron wrote:
Uhm, that is what ganking does now, because seriously if you dont think CODE. didnt have mining fleets somewhere to churn out free catalysts when they started then i think you dont know what game your playing.
...
But you are completely sidestepping the Random Generation thing, so yeah your concern is noted, but is most likely low or should be low on the list of concerns. So look at the bigger picture and quit trying to be Grumpy Bear or whatever that blue fluff stuff was called.

I don't autopilot where it's not feasible, I always scout and protect my freighters flying around. I am not afraid of getting killed by gankers because I take precautions to avoid that. What irks me is that someone can pay a bit of money to make all that pointless. Gankers have to invest one or several suicide tackle to achieve that as well as one or severall bumpers; this bounty system requires nothing like that.

I am not sidestepping the random generation at all. The system won't get used for what you or Chance pipedream about. Not in the majority of the cases at least, which means that, even under the RG premise, it is very likely that my freighter gets picked for destruction just because for no reason and there is nothing that I could do to prevent that or work around ingame except for not undocking, which in turn shuts down my business for whatever time period you or Chance thought up without incurring any tangible cost on the attacker.
In contrast, I point you towards the actual usage scenarios of your "super awesome idea" and it appears to me that you and Chance don't pay attention to the bigger picture in order to justify your "building a usable profession" dream.

On the note of ganking: The ships are not free. Even under MIMAF, they cost minerals and time to built as well as they get destroyed after ganking someone. The bounty system you and Chance "envision" require nothing like this.
And as for war decs: Yes, they are broken as well but they at least have the chance to affect the attacker. There is no question that wars are broken, but they suffer from the same problems that bounties suffer: Other systems are exploitable or are being used in ways that put one party at a significant disadvantage. However, the flaws of the war decing system are not the point here.

You can call me grumpy bear as much as you like and I like it because that's my favorite care bear of the lot. Twisted That won't stop me, however, from pointing out obvious flaws in your ideas whenever I see them and whenever they disproportionally affect my gameplay over yours.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2017-04-11 13:23:42 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
The biggest point most people miss on this one.........

Is the fact despite being exploitable or not, a new system must be made from the ground up, and it must be tailored so that a true Bounty Hunter profession can exist, any exploitation that can occur just has to be made not fun, not non existing.


LOL if you think the EVE population won't jump through boring hoops if it's an effective way to get to their goal.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#24 - 2017-04-11 13:29:25 UTC
-1 because rules of engagement in high sec, and the simple fact that your system is worthless because of them.
If the rules of engagement do not apply to a bounty hunter who is attacking a bounty target that was assigned to them congratulations you have just turned high sec into a shooting gallery style free for all killing zone.
No thanks, I would like to see a viable bounty system but yours does not work.

Frostys Virpio wrote:
The reason why you can't make bounty work in EVE is because death is not permanent. Bounties can work IRL because once I catch you or kill you, you are in jail for X time or dead in a permanent fashion. Nobody want to hunt for pennies but as soon as it pays, people "turn themselves in" to collect because there is not enough cost to doing so.

You are so wrong, and yet even in your being wrong you touch on the REAL problem with bounties in EvE.
Perma death or lack of it is not a problem in developing a viable bounty system.
In real life there are only a few countries where bounty hunting is still a legal.
In real life bounties can only be placed on people that have violated the law and in some cases have failed to live up to the terms of a contract.
But In ALL of the countries that still allow bounty hunting you as a person cannot actually place the bounty, you must petition the judicial system (usually but not always a court) and IF your situation meets the requirements the judicial system places the bounty on your behalf.
Do you see how and why bounties in real life work and bounties in EvE do not?
Let me give you a clue it revolves around the idiotic notion that any character can bounty any other character in the game at any time and for any reason or for no reason at all.
mkint
#25 - 2017-04-11 14:11:51 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Why should someone be allowed to legally kill me ingame in high sec because I was a **** on the forum? That's a fundamentally broken system...


Why should someone be legally able to wardec you because (highsec being the relevant place for this) because you (general term not personally you) were a **** on the forum?

Because wars serve a purpose to mutually attack someone/some group for 1 week, whereas this bounty system only serves the purpose of killing something that can't fight back for lols and to grab money. Fundamental difference.

With wars, you as attacker run the danger of your targets being better than you and counter-attack your infrastructure or gain allies in the fight. With the bounties, you run no risk at all when you attack your target. Risk of neutral logi? Don't attack. Risk of target switching ships? Don't attack. Risk of target being a competent alt? Don't attack. Etc. etc. The vast majority of targets are targets that do not pose any risk.

Also, Chance: The reason why bounties in the current system are so low is to facilitate everyone to bounty someone, 1 day newbs or 10 years veteran alike. Your system bars many people from participating, especially those enthusiastic new players who want to be Boba Fett or have a reason to give other Boba Fetts work.

You'll notice that the only person rich enough to justify wasting money on bobba fett was literally the richest person ever, who could afford to build 2 whole planets from scratch. Even then bobba fett mostly just got lucky (and still had to make sure he'd get paid twice for the venture to be worthwhile) and then he ultimately got his ass kicked by a randomly flailing blind man. Remind me why people think being bobba fett would be fun? Or why hiring "the best bounty hunter in the universe" would be worthwhile if you didn't have literally "all the money"?

A little more on topic, maybe the bounty system just ought to be scrapped and not replaced. Or at most the bounty system maybe ought get tied to the wardec system so that it makes at least some kind of sense.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2017-04-11 14:22:53 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
-1 because rules of engagement in high sec, and the simple fact that your system is worthless because of them.
If the rules of engagement do not apply to a bounty hunter who is attacking a bounty target that was assigned to them congratulations you have just turned high sec into a shooting gallery style free for all killing zone.
No thanks, I would like to see a viable bounty system but yours does not work.

Frostys Virpio wrote:
The reason why you can't make bounty work in EVE is because death is not permanent. Bounties can work IRL because once I catch you or kill you, you are in jail for X time or dead in a permanent fashion. Nobody want to hunt for pennies but as soon as it pays, people "turn themselves in" to collect because there is not enough cost to doing so.

You are so wrong, and yet even in your being wrong you touch on the REAL problem with bounties in EvE.
Perma death or lack of it is not a problem in developing a viable bounty system.
In real life there are only a few countries where bounty hunting is still a legal.
In real life bounties can only be placed on people that have violated the law and in some cases have failed to live up to the terms of a contract.
But In ALL of the countries that still allow bounty hunting you as a person cannot actually place the bounty, you must petition the judicial system (usually but not always a court) and IF your situation meets the requirements the judicial system places the bounty on your behalf.
Do you see how and why bounties in real life work and bounties in EvE do not?
Let me give you a clue it revolves around the idiotic notion that any character can bounty any other character in the game at any time and for any reason or for no reason at all.


There would still be the issue I talk about. Even if we managed to all put it into a legal system where it's not free for all to better emulate real life bounties, it still lack the real reason why you would put a bounty on someone's head IRL which is to bring them to authority so they can face the justice system. Well that or be dead but in EVE's case, it's never gonna happen. CCP will never force a player's character to spend X meaningful amount of time in jail. You don't put legal bounties to trash someone's home or burn his car or anything similar. The bounty either lead him to a permanent removal from circulation or at least a temporary one in a cell where he pays for his crime with time. None of that exist in EVE so building the framework to lead to that point is meaningless.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#27 - 2017-04-11 15:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
The biggest point most people miss on this one.........

Is the fact despite being exploitable or not, a new system must be made from the ground up, and it must be tailored so that a true Bounty Hunter profession can exist, any exploitation that can occur just has to be made not fun, not non existing.


LOL if you think the EVE population won't jump through boring hoops if it's an effective way to get to their goal.


Nope i dont.

Lets say you have to do the following........

1.) Do something to get sec status 3.0 or higher (easy enough usually)
2.) Travel to an acceptable Bounty Office, and Pay 1 billion ISK for a License.
3.) Pick up 1 single Lv1 contract (for idk maybe complete 100 times, you can only have 1 for 1 bounty slot) ((and these are random, you cant choose the target and cant drop them either...so a 14 day contract you cant complete, oh well)
4.) Gain lv2, pickup 2 contracts, randomized, but only lv2's count towards getting LV3
5.) repeat steps 4 and 5 till reaching Hunter Lv5....

At any point you can never fall below the 3.0 sec status, or you lose the License, any current contracts, and your Hunter Level....meaning starting from scratch, get 3.0, pay 1 billion isk, start with lv1 contracts for how ever many weeks/months it takes you to get to lv2.........

yep sure, everyone will jump through these hoops for the power of being a hunter to get their goal.....wait what goal? i think the goals you have in mind might be fostered better by wardecs, traditional ganking, and just plain douchebaggery. Nope dont think even 1/3 of the community will use this in the way you think for what you think they would use it for.....

Now someone that just wants to be a Bounty Hunter.....
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2017-04-11 16:07:41 UTC
I remember when I was that Naive about the people I play this game with. so cute.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#29 - 2017-04-11 17:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Max Deveron wrote:
wait what goal?

The goal to hunt everything without commitment (wars) or serious consequences (ganking)? Are you kidding yourself?

I can make 600M/day with ratting (that's very low by comparison to other people). If I wanted to watch the world burn, I could dedicated 1 day per week to just making ISK for the purpose of minimum bountying as many random people as possible that I see undocking in Jita or leave Jita via Perimeter. That way, hunters can rush through lots of bounties and through the ranks.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#30 - 2017-04-11 21:03:11 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
wait what goal?

The goal to hunt everything without commitment (wars) or serious consequences (ganking)? Are you kidding yourself?

.....purpose of minimum bountying as many random people as possible that I see undocking in Jita or leave Jita via Perimeter


Got a fix for you for that......

I did mention that you have to travel to an appropriate office to place a bounty, no more just creating them....

and lets add a process fee, say 20%....so placing a 10 million bounty is still going to cost you a total of 12 million.

Ok, that is still doable with an alt sitting there at the undock.

So lets also add another feature, a time delay, you can place 1 Bounty Contract only once every 30 minutes, or hour.......

That means you can create 24 - 48 Bounty Contracts per day.....How long you gonna keep that up before you get tired of it?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2017-04-11 22:25:02 UTC
...If you start stacking that many restrictions on top of eachother, what makes you think anyone is going to bother putting up bounties?

I regularly throw joke bounties on virtually anyone I interact with in game, or who flies past me in an expensive ship, just because it's funny. Why is that bad?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2017-04-12 06:08:13 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
wait what goal?

The goal to hunt everything without commitment (wars) or serious consequences (ganking)? Are you kidding yourself?

.....purpose of minimum bountying as many random people as possible that I see undocking in Jita or leave Jita via Perimeter


Got a fix for you for that......

I did mention that you have to travel to an appropriate office to place a bounty, no more just creating them....

and lets add a process fee, say 20%....so placing a 10 million bounty is still going to cost you a total of 12 million.

Ok, that is still doable with an alt sitting there at the undock.

So lets also add another feature, a time delay, you can place 1 Bounty Contract only once every 30 minutes, or hour.......

That means you can create 24 - 48 Bounty Contracts per day.....How long you gonna keep that up before you get tired of it?

I have alts, you know, to whom I can transfer money. And coincidentally, Jita is just 3 jumps from a Concord station (5 if you limit it to low sec). Go figure.

That is what 1 character can do. At any given time, there are 100-200 characters in space in Jita and Perimeter. Very bored characters, too, waiting to cargo scan something and if they cargo scanned something worthwhile, they can just place a bounty on them. Eventually, they will draw a bounty of these characters or who were bountied by someone else.

Go figure. I am by no means a particularly tech-savy or douche-savy person, but if even I can come up with such a simple scheme to mass bounty passerbys, other people with more dedication can come up with even worse schemes. Ganking isn't a particularly fun activity either (sure, lots of salt and potentially juicy killmails, but also lots of sitting around doing nothing), neither is anomaly ratting, participating in big null sec battles, to name a few, but nevertheless people keep doing it and people keep wanting it. If they can screw up someone's day, they will never grow tired of doing something.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#33 - 2017-04-12 06:37:02 UTC
This
Donnachadh wrote:
Let me give you a clue it revolves around the idiotic notion that any character can bounty any other character in the game at any time and for any reason or for no reason at all.

and this
Danika Princip wrote:
I regularly throw joke bounties on virtually anyone I interact with in game, or who flies past me in an expensive ship, just because it's funny. Why is that bad?

is why current system is flawed and if not changed should be removed from the game. Bounties not tied with the law are just kill orders, same stupidity as bribing concord to fight wars in hisec (ofc from common sense side I'm not against hisec wars).

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#34 - 2017-04-12 07:06:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
wait what goal?

The goal to hunt everything without commitment (wars) or serious consequences (ganking)? Are you kidding yourself?

.....purpose of minimum bountying as many random people as possible that I see undocking in Jita or leave Jita via Perimeter


Got a fix for you for that......

I did mention that you have to travel to an appropriate office to place a bounty, no more just creating them....

and lets add a process fee, say 20%....so placing a 10 million bounty is still going to cost you a total of 12 million.

Ok, that is still doable with an alt sitting there at the undock.

So lets also add another feature, a time delay, you can place 1 Bounty Contract only once every 30 minutes, or hour.......

That means you can create 24 - 48 Bounty Contracts per day.....How long you gonna keep that up before you get tired of it?

I have alts, you know, to whom I can transfer money. And coincidentally, Jita is just 3 jumps from a Concord station (5 if you limit it to low sec). Go figure.

That is what 1 character can do. At any given time, there are 100-200 characters in space in Jita and Perimeter. Very bored characters, too, waiting to cargo scan something and if they cargo scanned something worthwhile, they can just place a bounty on them. Eventually, they will draw a bounty of these characters or who were bountied by someone else.

Go figure. I am by no means a particularly tech-savy or douche-savy person, but if even I can come up with such a simple scheme to mass bounty passerbys, other people with more dedication can come up with even worse schemes. Ganking isn't a particularly fun activity either (sure, lots of salt and potentially juicy killmails, but also lots of sitting around doing nothing), neither is anomaly ratting, participating in big null sec battles, to name a few, but nevertheless people keep doing it and people keep wanting it. If they can screw up someone's day, they will never grow tired of doing something.


I have alts as well.
So ok, lets make it 6hrs minimum cooldown between placing one contract and making another, or actually lets just say you can only place 1 Contract per day.
Ganking can actually be fun, depending on who you are, sometimes it is just necessary.
And yeah i get it of course people want to screw up someone's day.

My point in some things, is make a system where the Bounty Hunters can be just that because that is the playstyle they really want to do...........
And literally nerf it into the ground any possible exploitation/corruption of people trying to game the Profession.
Take Code for example....gankers turn into Hunters.....find they have to pay ISK for a License.
Then they have to locate a target, sure run around make a list of names then go and place bounties at the nearest office.....
make it 1 per day, so now they all have to take turns doing that and if the list is really huge a few days at a time.
Then play the lottery of hoping to get that character with a bounty on them.
Wanted person is notified when a contract has gone active, lets give them also 24hrs before it can go live....ok, if possible they can go into any place other than Highsec if they wish. Or fly/do something else, or prep for laying a trap for said hunter.

I mean sure it would be possible to nerf the exploitations this hard.....then some people would cry whats the point of it then, the point would be if you dont want to be Bounty Hunter and just want easy kills then dont use it, go somewhere else.

I mean really, there is being an ******** and then there is being ********.......the latter should just quit trying to be douche bags.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#35 - 2017-04-12 13:31:29 UTC
Before I begin there is a short version of this replay at the end for those who do not want to read my ramblings.
Frostys Virpio wrote:
There would still be the issue I talk about. Even if we managed to all put it into a legal system where it's not free for all to better emulate real life bounties, it still lack the real reason why you would put a bounty on someone's head IRL which is to bring them to authority so they can face the justice system.

EvE is not real life.
In EvE our space ships act like submarines not space ships..
In EvE missiles take longer to hit targets than the turret based alternatives, while in real life the missiles would hit the same target before the shells from a turret would.
In EvE our missiles have a max speed, in real life they would continue to accelerate as long as there was fuel to burn.
In EvE the mass of the two objects are not considered when they bump into each other, in real life mass is everything in determining how the objects will respond when they bump.
Do I need to go on, or have I put down enough to prove that essentially nothing in EvE works like it would in real life so why are you so hung up on a bounty system that has to work "exactly" like the ones in real life?

The current bounty system does not work like they do in real life, so why do we not find you among the the group that is calling for changes to, or the removal of the current system?

Frostys Virpio wrote:
Well that or be dead but in EVE's case, it's never gonna happen. CCP will never force a player's character to spend X meaningful amount of time in jail. You don't put legal bounties to trash someone's home or burn his car or anything similar. The bounty either lead him to a permanent removal from circulation or at least a temporary one in a cell where he pays for his crime with time. None of that exist in EVE so building the framework to lead to that point is meaningless.

Again why the hang up on how things work in real life?
In real life we would die a horrible death in space when our ship exploded, yet here we simply reappear in a clone vat and you are OK with that. In real life it ALWAYS takes more energy from the source to power the transmitters than is received at the other end because losses. In EvE if we take two ships that are not cap stable as individuals (guardian we are looking at you) and transfer X amount of energy to the other ship at the same time we receive X amount of energy transferred from that ship and magically both ships are now cap stable.

When our Citadels are blown up magically our stuff transfers to another citadel provided they are set up within the appropriate range. In real life when someone blows up your house you loose EVERYTHING.

Short version.
We do not care if a bounty system works the same here as it does in real life.
What we want is a bounty system that works here in the game, a bounty system that makes bounty hunting an actual and legitimate game play style that players can use to make ISK.
We want a bounty system that cannot be gamed for profit by killing your own alts.
We want a bounty system that does not break high sec rules of engagement so the hunters will receive full payouts for their efforts.
All of these things can be achieved if we as a community are willing to give up the aspects of the current system that force it into a useless state.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2017-04-12 17:34:58 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:


I have alts as well.
So ok, lets make it 6hrs minimum cooldown between placing one contract and making another, or actually lets just say you can only place 1 Contract per day.
Ganking can actually be fun, depending on who you are, sometimes it is just necessary.
And yeah i get it of course people want to screw up someone's day.

My point in some things, is make a system where the Bounty Hunters can be just that because that is the playstyle they really want to do...........
And literally nerf it into the ground any possible exploitation/corruption of people trying to game the Profession.
Take Code for example....gankers turn into Hunters.....find they have to pay ISK for a License.
Then they have to locate a target, sure run around make a list of names then go and place bounties at the nearest office.....
make it 1 per day, so now they all have to take turns doing that and if the list is really huge a few days at a time.
Then play the lottery of hoping to get that character with a bounty on them.
Wanted person is notified when a contract has gone active, lets give them also 24hrs before it can go live....ok, if possible they can go into any place other than Highsec if they wish. Or fly/do something else, or prep for laying a trap for said hunter.

I mean sure it would be possible to nerf the exploitations this hard.....then some people would cry whats the point of it then, the point would be if you dont want to be Bounty Hunter and just want easy kills then dont use it, go somewhere else.

I mean really, there is being an ******** and then there is being ********.......the latter should just quit trying to be douche bags.


If you stack enough restrictions on top of eachother to make it ompletley impossible to ever even think about exploiting the system, you're going to make it borderline impossible to actually USE the system in a legitimate way. You are aware of that, right?
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2017-04-12 18:15:44 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Why aren't their bounty tiers like insurance.

I pay 1m for a small bounty.
10m for medium bounty, etc etc etc.
If someone has a bounty you can upgrade it for the appropriate cost. And each successive tier provides more incentives and lesser isk restrictions to hunt that person down.


Do not remember if Op's video mentioned hard numbers on a scale like i put....

But i agree there should be tiers, and bounty's should be more expensive as a minimum than what it currently is.
I also like the idea you have about upgrading it to next tier if you desired, so long as you can not degrade it.

Just a hypothetical number.
And it only degrades if you're killed.
Rather than just crazy small amounts stacking up I figure tier it out.
Unless the small amounts from many people accumulate to unlock the next tier.
Originally I was just thinking a non stacking tier. I can't add anything to the small, but I can upgrade it and pay for a higher tier. Once one person buys a small you have to go for medium or ignore the guy if you don't want to upgrade him but that would exclude multiple grievances I guess.

I guess accumulation works better for many people. You would see wanted value (bounty tier)
And add to it with options like contribute 1m, 5m, 10m, purchase next tier, or add x to next tier.

If a bunch of people pay in and it goes over it upgrades the bounty, and the remainder carry's over to the next tier. And the bounty experiences more restrictions and is bounty hunters would have less restrictions for hunting them and get larger rewards.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2017-04-12 18:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
I like the idea of purchasing a license.
You join a branch of concord. If you leave the npc corp it revokes your license. If you attack a non bountied target it revokes your license, and you can't place bounties while holding a valid license, you have to revoke it first, commiting a crime revokes it. you can only buy one at a time to prevent people from buying several and revoking it when convenient to place a bounty or gank a non bounty. If you revoke it you take a sec status hit maybe unless you manually destroy it early and not by commiting a crime. While holding a valid license you can't be bountied as a arm of Concords bounty hunting branch. You can attack bounties as if they were war targets with a high end expensive bounty, not low end.
To prevent alts from placing bounties so they can get ganked there's an hour delay.

With the bounty tiers it would change some of these conditions maybe. More restrictive for lower bounties, less restrictions for higher bounties.
Yay/nay/changes/figure out ways to exploit it so we can make changes.
Dimitrios Bekas
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2017-04-12 19:17:59 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
wait what goal?

The goal to hunt everything without commitment (wars) or serious consequences (ganking)? Are you kidding yourself?

I can make 600M/day with ratting (that's very low by comparison to other people). If I wanted to watch the world burn, I could dedicated 1 day per week to just making ISK for the purpose of minimum bountying as many random people as possible that I see undocking in Jita or leave Jita via Perimeter. That way, hunters can rush through lots of bounties and through the ranks.



Watch the World burn ? wtf.

Lets say yes...
Yes, if you want to quit eve, sell all your stuff, place that 83.4B you now have on random people, sure, do it.
But then you need to go to one of the BountyHunterz Concord Stations,...not any Concord Station.
After you placed your first Bounty (which is minimum 100mil isk with the new BountySystem) your Toon gets a 24hour Timer, or 72hTimer. 6hours is way too low. But thats again, only Numbers and would be tweaked if abused anyway by ccp.

Allright, now you login more Toons, transfered money around, bring them all to those "Special Concord Stations" next 24hour Timer.
You keep doing that over and over with all of your 21Toons or whatever. Awesome Job. You spent a minimum of 2.1B (or even more) on random people, all your active Eve Activity paused for this, and either you wait a whole day and REPEAT all of that, or you leave some alts in that station so you still be able to make some "random" Bountys the next day and not make it the only Activity in EVE you do.

You keep doing that for a whole month. You placed lets see....420random bounties on random people, your Investement something more or less of 60B.

So you Sir, tell me...you (or someone else) would do this to watch the World burn ? For how long ? 3months ? 6 ? Or is this your new profession now ?

First Thing, the World for sure will not burn. Even if 10 Guys like you exist out there.
Second Thing, i will never understand why some people, instead of PUSHING a new Concept or Idea, always come up with insane situations that could be "possible" and could be "abused" and would make their "gameplay" totally screwed...or whatever.
Its always the same. It was the same with SKillinjectorz, the same with alphas, the same with upcoming SOV Changes, Capital Changes...

And after bringing those new Things into EVE, getting them balanced, tweaked and bringing in optimizations....EVERYONE LOVES THEM. Just one Example.
HardCore complaining pilots that yelled "ohhh nooo CCP Skillinjectorz bad Pay2Win blabla will quit my accounts".And after the release, they changed their mind and now have 30+Accounts set up for professional Skillpointfarming.

Complete Changes to Carriers, bringing the new FAX Logi...?
CCP WHAT ? Crazy ? ( complaining will brake the game, will be abused, makes no sense blablablabla)
Look now...AWESOME ! Carrier Pilots doing SoloPVP !

(don´t pick me up on those examples if you have a different opinion if they are good or bad, we talk about Bountyhunting 2.0 and not the things i mentioned above to give some examples about useless feedback)

But lets get back to your "Watch the World Burn" Scenario.
Nobody will invest a day of Mining,Trading,Missions whatever and then place random bounties....nobody. Not one goddamn Pilot in Eve will invest hard earned ISK (minimum Bounty raised to 100mil as already said) on random People. Because it takes more than only 2 clicks. (how exactly, with special Stations you need to fly to, getting timers or paying extra fee´s or whatever doesnt matter).
It would be time/Effort consuming to place 10+random Bounties every time,...again HOW CCP can fix this is nothing we need to talk now...)

Sure, i know...there is always that ONE GUY or GROUP...and yes, harvesting Tears, annoying people..all that funny and not so funny stuff. But what i want to point out here, after this loong text of wall....

STOP, PLEASE STOP coming up with insane and non-existing Situations that one Guy/Group could do. You don´t know what will happen...but for sure, CCP will not implement a system that would make your Scenario become reality...or either you are that ONE Guy in EVE...and then again, who cares about your 400+Random Bounties ?

Hell, every Bountyhunter would thank you.

The total opposite Scenario you can think about now, and we sure need to talk about how it can be tweaked is this
...i take a little piece of paper, write your name on it, right now...and invest the same "time/isk" like you after Bountyhunting 2.0 comes out. And place a massive amount of Bounties with all of my toons on your head.

WHY WOULD I DO THIS ?

Just go back and watch the Fanfest Presentation about the New Player Experience 2.0
CCP Ghost explained in detail...PURPOSE, VALUABLE, MEANINGFUL, ENJOYABLE Experiences...just go watch it again.
Now project this on everything in EVE, not only NewPlayer Experience.

And now me and you,...in the new Retribution 2.0 Bountyhunting Release.
You want to see the world burn.
I want to see you burn.

You, because you are a very bad person and want to exploit the new mechanic to annoy people.
Me, because you are a very bad person...and did something bad to me. (it´s just an example, don´t worry PLEASE)

We invested the same time, ISK, Effort.

Purpose, Valuable, Meaningful, Enjoyable...
I achieved my goal in a new bountyhunting system...you too ? ;) <3 o7
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#40 - 2017-04-12 20:00:08 UTC
Dimitrios Bekas wrote:
STOP, PLEASE STOP coming up with insane and non-existing Situations that one Guy/Group could do. You don´t know what will happen...but for sure, CCP will not implement a system that would make your Scenario become reality...or either you are that ONE Guy in EVE...and then again, who cares about your 400+Random Bounties ?

Insane situations like ... Burn Jita (hundreds of people converging on a single system and killing every big ship they see)? Or Purge Providence (the region with the highest adms and most stations, and every one repeatedly said it would be cancer taking over that region ... and guess what, they did it in a matter of a week or two of concentrated siege)? Or an older example: m0o. Who, when Concord was tankable, cut off an entire high sec system and important inter-regional gate connection for an extended period of time and were so successful that CCP themselves had to intervene. Or you remember Xenuria's fun "talk" on their TS about asset transfers for a lottery?

There are lots of crazy people out there because EVE is their petridish, their mace for lab mice, their sandbox where they can live their fantasies. You have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about when you say "stop the insane and non-existing situations".

Furthermore, with your limitations and restrictions on how high a minimum bounty has to be, you excluded a lot of people from participating in the "fun". You made it impossible for them to have purpose because they cannot afford it. You introduced arbitrary limitations on how often you can place a bounty just so that your "fun system" does not get mass abused by people who don't want to do anything else, which in turn makes this system extremely enjoyable. Roll
I do not belong to these people who want to exploit mechanics to annoy other people. If you accuse me ever again of this, you will get a nice mail from the GM. Smile I am, in contrast, someone who would suffer under such a new system because I fly ships that are incredibly vulnerable to this system.
As for your example, if you place a bounty on Rivr, it's wasted. Not only do I not die often, I also rarely leave Null sec so that these kill rights for money are meaningless to me. You can kill me any day anyways ... or rather die trying.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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