These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

t2 missile rework

Author
Kassar Hekard
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-04-11 11:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassar Hekard
So after getting into the Cyclone and missiles in general, i've been sort of scratching my head over why the t2 long-range missile systems are balanced the way they are. After doing some research on the history for missile balance and how different systems relate to the ships that use them, i think i've come up with a decent way to balance lights, heavies, and cruise missiles (heavies in particular)

-All Precision missiles receive a 66% increase in missile velocity, and a 22% decrease in missile flight time. Additionally, they receive 20% increase in missile sig radius and explosion velocity. The sig radius nerf is a hit to performance, but compensates well with the explo velocity and speed increases for better use against ships using a mwd.

-All fury missiles receive a 15% decrease in explosion radius, but a 30% decrease in explosion velocity. This will aid in damage against lower-sig targets, as well be more effective against ships with afterburners.

This is intended to better mimic the physics involved in the tracking to distances mechanics turrets deal with, and present a reasonable way to balance t2 missile systems in general (the short-range missile systems seem reasonable with how they operate in web/scram range).

Please let me know if this comes across as a reasonable request, and if any numbers need tweaking.

FAQ:
Aren't precision missiles already good enough at hitting smaller/faster targets?
No. They have the shortest range out of all missile options, and while turrets have tracking and range be mutually exclusive modifiers, missiles do not enjoy that distinction, as a missile speed relative to a ship affects its range. Longer range is a third modifier for application, especially in pvp.

Is this in response to the rapid launcher balance changes that were announced on April first?
Not directly, but it certainly got me thinking about their usefulness. A Bellicose would shine with these changes, and missile explosion velocity bonuses would shine more on the Typhoon. Rapid launchers with better precision missiles would do well on all ships that use missiles, with the exception of bombers and capitals.

Isn't this just a flat buff to lights, heavies, and cruise missiles?
Not necessarily. Precision missiles offer comparatively lackluster paper dps, and this would simply have them be the go-to missile for application that is currently filled by faction ammo. Faction ammo for these missile types would ideally be as a mid-range option for balanced range and dps, not the better option for both in any case.

Why should i listen to the opinion of a former slave if i'm a conceited amarrian?
You don't have to because you probably aren't going to be using missiles. Also, I'm not a former slave, i'm an always-been human. I hope you like bullets for breakfast, bible-thumper.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#2 - 2017-04-11 13:29:26 UTC
Then I hammer you with hams from my Sacrilege until your bullet-spitter goes down in flames.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

unidenify
Deaf Armada
Deaf and Daft
#3 - 2017-04-14 02:57:19 UTC
Precision missile's range is fine with me because how it behave similar to Tracking ammo for Long Range Turret. Only change it need is have its damage comparable to Navy ammo rather than T1 ammo.

Fury maybe need some love in application, mostly in explosive velocity.
Cade Windstalker
#4 - 2017-04-14 03:57:37 UTC
I don't think you actually understand how missiles are intended to be balanced here... or how they compare to guns in terms of application.

Kassar Hekard wrote:
-All Precision missiles receive a 66% increase in missile velocity, and a 22% decrease in missile flight time. Additionally, they receive 20% increase in missile sig radius and explosion velocity. The sig radius nerf is a hit to performance, but compensates well with the explo velocity and speed increases for better use against ships using a mwd.


Precision missiles don't need a range buff, and they certainly don't need a massive speed buff. There are *very* few ships that can reasonably outrun a missile at this point, and almost all of them need to either be burning well outside of their effective range to reasonably do so because missiles spiral out to hit the target. so at close range it's basically impossible to out-run a missile.

The short range on Precision missiles is meant to be a trade-off in the same way that a tracking penalty affects short-range but higher DPS T2 ammo. The difference here being that with the T2 guns the optimal range band ends up being out near optimal. Since missiles don't have falloff or tracking they trade range the same way that T2 ammo trades tracking to mess with the effective range bands of the ammo.

Also changing explosion velocity and radius both by 20% has zero effect on application against a MWDing target. If you look at the missile damage formula you'll note that missile explosion velocity and explosion radius are inversely proportional. Increasing both by 20% cancels out completely unless the target is larger than the explosion velocity, making this effectively a very small nerf, but not one most would notice. Since a MWDing target blooms its sig in exchange for the massive speed increase it takes roughly the same damage from a missile that an Afterburner using target would.

Kassar Hekard wrote:
-All fury missiles receive a 15% decrease in explosion radius, but a 30% decrease in explosion velocity. This will aid in damage against lower-sig targets, as well be more effective against ships with afterburners.

This is intended to better mimic the physics involved in the tracking to distances mechanics turrets deal with, and present a reasonable way to balance t2 missile systems in general (the short-range missile systems seem reasonable with how they operate in web/scram range).


First off, again, that's not how the missile damage formula works. Also again net nerf to the missile's application.

Beyond that missiles aren't supposed to mimic the damage curve of a tracking turret, they have their own dynamics and their own trade-offs compared to guns.

Missiles generally apply far better for their range and DPS than a comparable gun system, the trade-off is that they only really beat guns at certain range brackets because they have fewer ammo choices and don't interact with a target burning into range the same way a gun does, making them easier to use but also less prone to error when fighting against them. They also don't have falloff with all of its benefits and trade-offs.

Overall your suggestions here would be a net nerf to missile application and you clearly don't understand how the damage formula works in practice. I recommend running some test numbers through a spreadsheet first next time.
Ramukan
Radiation Sickness
#5 - 2017-04-14 22:48:22 UTC
making things increasingly generic in real terms and only differing in cosmetics is bad for game design. Missiles are very unique from turrets by design and should not be made more like them.