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Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border

Author
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#341 - 2017-04-10 20:38:57 UTC
Syenna Celeste wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I act this way because every time I assumed someone wasn't out to harm my people...


"My people". These are two words that you say a lot and like every over used phrase you can only repeat it so many times before it loses all meaning to anybody still listening. Who are your people, Mizhara? Who are these poor, defenseless innocents that you claim to protect? Are you protecting them from your cushy seat in MC? Are you somehow better placed now to judge those in less noble professions than outright piracy?

You spent so long trying to protect your "people" from the likes of me, and you failed utterly. And yet you're still here claiming to fight the good fight with words and a complete lack of action. Put your ISK where your mouth is, if only so the next time we slap your filthy, tattoo spoiled face we might have some of it fall out.


As if you were ever a threat to my people. For that matter, as if you ever posed a threat to me. The Pendulum Wars were bloodsport with a scoreboard and you know it.

If you want to come 'slap my filthy tattoo spoiled face', I suppose that'll have to wait until the day you grow the fortitude required to fight someone a tad less vulnerable than humanitarian organizations or the Pendulum War participants. Or you know, you can always go for the assets already anchored and vulnerable. I promise they aren't cowering behind the safety of w-space chains in some spooky space system.

As for lack of action or ISK spent, I don't think you've been paying much attention.

@Aria: Deflecting with that looks an awful lot like not having an answer.
Syenna Celeste
The Green Machine
Shadow Cartel
#342 - 2017-04-10 20:42:54 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Syenna Celeste wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I act this way because every time I assumed someone wasn't out to harm my people...


"My people". These are two words that you say a lot and like every over used phrase you can only repeat it so many times before it loses all meaning to anybody still listening. Who are your people, Mizhara? Who are these poor, defenseless innocents that you claim to protect? Are you protecting them from your cushy seat in MC? Are you somehow better placed now to judge those in less noble professions than outright piracy?

You spent so long trying to protect your "people" from the likes of me, and you failed utterly. And yet you're still here claiming to fight the good fight with words and a complete lack of action. Put your ISK where your mouth is, if only so the next time we slap your filthy, tattoo spoiled face we might have some of it fall out.

', I suppose that'll have to wait until the day you grow the fortitude required to fight someone a tad less vulnerable than humanitarian organizations or the Pendulum War participants.


Someone hasn't been paying attention.

Now answer the question, who are your people? The Matari you abandoned or the pirates and thugs you serve only to hide behind?

Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#343 - 2017-04-10 20:48:05 UTC
Point out any of my people within my reach I have abandoned and I'll pay you every ISK I own and transfer the Hel as well. As for my status as a Mercenary, you really haven't been paying much attention if that's the worst you can use against me. I've done far worse than that, many a time.

My reputation and status has never been one of neither honor nor high regard.
Syenna Celeste
The Green Machine
Shadow Cartel
#344 - 2017-04-10 21:07:12 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Point out any of my people within my reach I have abandoned and I'll pay you every ISK I own and transfer the Hel as well.


There you go. "My people" again. You still haven't told me who you're fighting for in YC119. Do you even know anymore?


Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#345 - 2017-04-10 21:24:47 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
@Aria: Deflecting with that looks an awful lot like not having an answer.


I'm not sure what answer I'd give that you'd recognize as a valid rebuttal, Miz. After all, you don't trust my perceptions, either. To you, I'm either criminally naive, pushing an agenda (IE, trafficking in lies and distortions), or both.

Both might be a little true, sometimes. I'm someone's agent, after all, and I don't make a fetish out of honesty the way you do. Personal integrity's important to me, though. That's not a simple thing like always being honest, but, I think, if I don't want to be a harmful person, it's maybe a better goal.

That's what I believe, anyway. I don't much expect you to agree.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#346 - 2017-04-10 21:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mizhara Del'thul
Is that truly so hard a thing to understand intuitively? The concept shouldn't be alien to you even given your chosen path. My clan. My tribe. The men, women and children enduring what I did from birth. Those who are family through blood, deed or love. Every bloodline and people named in the Accords and those who have come since. The person next to me. The person on the other side of New Eden, fighting for my enemies. The faithful, the betrayed, the free and the enslaved.

'My people' means a thousand different things to different people and even to one person depending on the context. No different for us than it does for those of different cultures and nationalities.

As for fighting for them, that has been a lament for some time. There's no capsuleer targets to fight, and we've been - as I'm growing vexed at repeating - surgically excised from being able to legally affect these things among baseliners.

@Aria, I don't need to 'trust your perceptions' or agree with them. I just idly wonder if you have any that you yourself consider valid, because when you deflect rather than respond, it looks a lot like you do not and I hope I'm wrong about that.
Victoria Grey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2017-04-10 21:57:52 UTC
Syenna Celeste wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Point out any of my people within my reach I have abandoned and I'll pay you every ISK I own and transfer the Hel as well.


There you go. "My people" again. You still haven't told me who you're fighting for in YC119. Do you even know anymore?




She'd told you but you don't seem to understand the concept. Her people are her own. She protects who she can. It doesn't matter where she or any of us is or are.

I don't agree with Mizhara on many things and I'd say that I'm much more on the optimistic side but all the same, in a way, she's family and that is the concept you seem to not be understanding.

Now I don't' think this is really the point of the thread in regards to the Quafe incident. I think we can all go back to discussing that. But I don't think it fair or constructive to misguidedly attack Ms. Del'thul on whether or not she cares or will do anything she can for her people.


Speaking of, do you think that the State will issue any kind of apology to the family of those that lost their lives? What are your opinions on the matter of the itchy trigger finger of those involved? This seems more prudent a topic to discuss and I am interested in your reply.
Syenna Celeste
The Green Machine
Shadow Cartel
#348 - 2017-04-10 22:09:51 UTC
Victoria Grey wrote:
Syenna Celeste wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Point out any of my people within my reach I have abandoned and I'll pay you every ISK I own and transfer the Hel as well.


There you go. "My people" again. You still haven't told me who you're fighting for in YC119. Do you even know anymore?




She'd told you but you don't seem to understand the concept. Her people are her own. She protects who she can. It doesn't matter where she or any of us is or are.



Until her latest reply she had at no point qualified who precisely her people were. Given that she doesn't seem to fight for anybody, my questioning was entirely reasonable.

Victoria Grey wrote:


Speaking of, do you think that the State will issue any kind of apology to the family of those that lost their lives? What are your opinions on the matter of the itchy trigger finger of those involved? This seems more prudent a topic to discuss and I am interested in your reply.


The State probably won't. It's not my place to say if they should - I am not a loyalist, and I won't speak for what the empires should or shouldn't do.

I don't see any evidence of an 'itchy trigger finger', contrary to what some Federal extremists have been parroting. A legitimate target is a legitimate target. The State didn't exactly make a secret of closing the border.

Now I'm interested to know why you'd be interested in my reply. Meta.

Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.

Victoria Grey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#349 - 2017-04-10 22:24:50 UTC
Syenna Celeste wrote:


Now I'm interested to know why you'd be interested in my reply. Meta.

Mostly to steer the topic back to the topic from back and forth discussions.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#350 - 2017-04-10 22:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
@Aria, I don't need to 'trust your perceptions' or agree with them. I just idly wonder if you have any that you yourself consider valid, because when you deflect rather than respond, it looks a lot like you do not and I hope I'm wrong about that.


Some arguments aren't worth the energy, Miz-- especially when the data set being discussed gets defined to exclude the examples where I have a meaningful amount of information even as that data is simultaneously described in terms that make it clear it isn't being handled as an exception to the larger pattern, but a continuation.

Arguing interpretations of even the parts of your past I'm actually involved in with you is a little like trying to find the last few bits of "treasure" Ms. Qerl hid down in the artificial underwater labyrinth at the bottom of what we euphemistically refer to as the deep end of the Gottin's Lamp swimming pool: it involves probing the deep recesses of a basically alien realm; it involves a lot of time and a huge amount of effort; it's at least slightly dangerous; and it only very rarely returns a small shiny object worth less than an ISK.

It's something I might do for fun, but, arguing with you isn't actually fun to begin with. Both pursuits are good exercise, though.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#351 - 2017-04-10 22:38:54 UTC
Very well, heading for a rest cycle so not much point trying to coax something other than deflection from you in that regard. Just do please consider the very simple viewpoint that requires no delving of alien realms: When the deflections come only when convenient to ignore something, sprinkled between the actual discussions you do have answers for, I'm sure you can understand why I wonder if you have any solid perceptions, agreed with or not.

Good night, Aria. I genuinely hope I'm wrong.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#352 - 2017-04-10 22:46:01 UTC
Good night, Miz.

I ... can't really be sure. Subjectivity, you know.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#353 - 2017-04-10 22:48:13 UTC
Interesting speculations, but the problem is still that we don't have any of the information needed to make the call.

We can assume the gunners followed the orders of their ship's captains. The captains followed the orders of the patrol commander. The patrol commander... Well, we don't know if he acted based upon some ROEs or if he actually spoke to someone before he pulled the trigger.

If he followed the ROEs then we have a situation where we can criticise those rules, if we ever get access to them, and criticise whether he slavishly followed them or exercised personal initiative, however flawed. Until we know the Commander, his ROEs and whether his action was a departure from those ROEs or not - we have no basis for making a determination.

As for whether the dead deserve compensation.... Well, it's the same deal. Were they criminals? Victims of a misunderstanding? Victims of a crime?

We don't know.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Shun Makoto
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#354 - 2017-04-10 23:11:26 UTC
I'm seeing a lot of speculation fly around but we've still yet to see an official statement from Customs. Though the fact we've yet to see a statement is...disheartening.

Kaalakiota-Kaatso Taokeruu Kaltiovon ArK. (Kalaakiota Business Research Corporation)

Head of Security

...................................

Kaalakiota Corporation

Patriot Faction

Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#355 - 2017-04-10 23:16:10 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
a small shiny object worth less than an ISK.



Ooo, hush you. It's nice treasure. It's worth at least four.
James Syagrius
Reclamation
#356 - 2017-04-11 00:20:54 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Your disappointment is, to me, in line with your other political opinions, Miz.

Warped. Unreliable. Worthless.

Dust.

It doesn't make you wrong, mind. It's more that your opinion is without weight.

That's actually a little remarkable. So, I maybe should apologize for coming back to it again; it's just that finding that I actually am totally disregarding someone's opinion, it's unusual enough that I kind of end up dwelling on why.

Because Arrendis is of course correct: it does mean devaluing your experience. I need to be careful.

Interesting, I find her opinions something other entirely.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#357 - 2017-04-11 00:40:34 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Your disappointment is, to me, in line with your other political opinions, Miz.

Warped. Unreliable. Worthless.

Dust.

It doesn't make you wrong, mind. It's more that your opinion is without weight.

That's actually a little remarkable. So, I maybe should apologize for coming back to it again; it's just that finding that I actually am totally disregarding someone's opinion, it's unusual enough that I kind of end up dwelling on why.

Because Arrendis is of course correct: it does mean devaluing your experience. I need to be careful.

Interesting, I find her opinions something other entirely.


Hm ... "political" might be the wrong term anyway, though that's often how it plays out-- not the politics of empires, but the politics of individuals and small groups.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#358 - 2017-04-11 01:04:00 UTC
*grabs popcorn*


You know, this became a s**t storm faster then my 18th birthday party... and that went downhill as soon as the first guest arrived naked.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

James Syagrius
Reclamation
#359 - 2017-04-11 01:45:11 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
... and that went downhill as soon as the first guest arrived naked.
No.. I was at that party, Mr. Biko enjoyed himself as I remember.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#360 - 2017-04-11 15:54:37 UTC
M. Syagrius, that was at my own (2nd) 18th birthday party, not Osyn's.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I had to engage in a little rumor control.