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Confidential Arek'Jaalan Report Leaked! Readers Amazed!!

Author
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#41 - 2011-09-16 21:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Esan Vartesa
Malcolm Khross wrote:

I uh...think you misunderstand the reference, Vartesa.

Mekhios would be the system where the Elder Invasion that devastated the Imperian Navy reached its peak until the final confrontation that resulted in the destruction of the Elder Fleet.

The technology from your side, Vartesa.

His point was that without the Jovian weaponry used by your Empress (in point of fact, I am unsure its origin was ever determined, but I may incorrect), the Elder Invasion would have continued and done even more devastation. It was a cited reference to the defeat of your own fleets at the hands of a Minmatar one.

Although, the Republic has stated time and again that the Elder Invasion was not sanctioned by the Republic, so it is more a reference to Matari success, not Republic success.

I have been civil with you up to this point, but if you're going to take it upon yourself to chastise another human being, at least make sure you actually have the mental faculties to understand what they're saying first, otherwise find a mirror and repeat your statement.


Esan sighs, shaking his head.

Why do I even bother with these childish...

Taking a breath...

Malcolm, where do I begin?

First of all, in your agitation to somehow crawl out of the corner you've painted yourself in, you've made some ridiculous assumptions.

The Amarr Empire is not my side. Sure, we Khanid hold improving relations with the Amarr, and we share common roots in the distant past, but please don't mistake my low opinion of the Republic for blind adherence to typical Amarrian dogma. That I proclaim the Republic to be weak is an opinion based solely on very well-known and very public facts. Their economy is in a shambles, their political structure is a bloody mess, and their military might is... questionable. Even most Matari recognize these facts, and those who deny it only do it a disservice. Work needs to be done, and ignorant denial accomplishes nothing.

Second, you recognize the distinction between the Republic as an institution and the Minmatar as a society, and yet you completely gloss over the fact that I'm talking about the former ONLY. We can tell stories until we're blue in the face about how the Elder fleet decimated the Imperial Navy, which they did, handily, but that says nothing about the Republic. Actually, the very fact that the Republic was so completely blindsided by the existence of the Elder fleet is itself a condemnation of that institution. How could something so big, right under their noses, go entirely unnoticed?

I don't demand civility, Mr. Khross. I demand some modicum of intelligence if you're going to question my statements.

Or, silence will do.
Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-09-16 21:49:32 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You know, all the rhetoric that some Amarrians keep spouting on here about wanting to move forward "together" with the Republic, and not understanding why the Matari keep their strong opinions about the Empire to the present day, is actually being droned in to the point some of it sounds believable.

It's good to see that condescending pillocks like Esan Vartesa still exist to show us all that underneath this "progressive attitude" the Empire is claiming, in truth, nothing's really changed.


Are you suggesting that Mr. Vartesa is somehow representative of the "progressive" factions in the Empire?


No, but I wouldn't suggest the ones claiming to be on here, as of late, are either.


I haven't even noticed any.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#43 - 2011-09-16 22:00:28 UTC
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:

Are you suggesting that Mr. Vartesa is somehow representative of the "progressive" factions in the Empire?


I should certainly hope not.

Maybe one of these days you fools will get it through your neural interfaces that I am not even Amarrian.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-09-16 22:05:19 UTC
Give them time to prove their merit with more than just words, Caellach-suuolo.

If we are not willing to afford them a chance, how could we ever expect the same from then. People do change.

~Malcolm Khross

Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#45 - 2011-09-16 22:08:24 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Give them time to prove their merit with more than just words, Caellach-suuolo.

If we are not willing to afford them a chance, how could we ever expect the same from then. People do change.


So do glaciers.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-09-16 22:10:05 UTC
Esan Vartesa wrote:
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:

Are you suggesting that Mr. Vartesa is somehow representative of the "progressive" factions in the Empire?


I should certainly hope not.

Maybe one of these days you fools will get it through your neural interfaces that I am not even Amarrian.


Right about when you learn basic reading comprehension.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#47 - 2011-09-16 22:11:26 UTC
It's quite amusing to see how readily our enemies switch between the Republic and the so-called Elder Fleet having been in full cooperation and having nothing to do with each other, depending on whether they are arguing for a declaration of war or something else.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#48 - 2011-09-16 22:20:57 UTC
Esan Vartesa wrote:
Esan sighs, shaking his head.

First of all, in your agitation to somehow crawl out of the corner you've painted yourself in, you've made some ridiculous assumptions.

The Amarr Empire is not my side. Sure, we Khanid hold improving relations with the Amarr, and we share common roots in the distant past, but please don't mistake my low opinion of the Republic for blind adherence to typical Amarrian dogma. That I proclaim the Republic to be weak is an opinion based solely on very well-known and very public facts. Their economy is in a shambles, their political structure is a bloody mess, and their military might is... questionable. Even most Matari recognize these facts, and those who deny it only do it a disservice. Work needs to be done, and ignorant denial accomplishes nothing.

Second, you recognize the distinction between the Republic as an institution and the Minmatar as a society, and yet you completely gloss over the fact that I'm talking about the former ONLY. We can tell stories until we're blue in the face about how the Elder fleet decimated the Imperial Navy, which they did, handily, but that says nothing about the Republic. Actually, the very fact that the Republic was so completely blindsided by the existence of the Elder fleet is itself a condemnation of that institution. How could something so big, right under their noses, go entirely unnoticed?

I don't demand civility, Mr. Khross. I demand some modicum of intelligence if you're going to question my statements.

Or, silence will do.


Allow me to begin by stating my agitation is not in crawling out of some corner, it's in dealing with your blatant demeaning attitude and statements which were not factually based.

I admit fault in assuming that you were immediately arguing from the standpoint of the Empire because you were a part of it, that is not entirely accurate but it does not negate the point I made. The technology Sadik was referencing was on the Amarr side and you apparently misunderstood his assertion entirely and then took it upon yourself to belittle him.

To your first paragraph, stating "everything the Republic touches goes down the toilet" is not an affirmation of a weak economy or work needing to be done, it is a completely farcical assertion based entirely on your own perception. A perception that I attacked and disproved. If you want to acknowledge a weak economy or work needing to be done, it usually looks something like, "The Republic has a struggling economy and a political structure that could use some refining in order to operate more effectively." This is a factual statement, not an inflammatory one.

Second paragraph: I, in fact, made the distinction that a government is composed of its people, who also compose the society and that the sum total of both equals the full political entity. Also, you will note that my original response to your challenge involved accomplishments from Republic-aligned, post-Republic formation corporations composed of Matari, who compose both the society and the government therein. The Khanid Kingdom, for instance, would be nothing without the individual Khanid within its borders and any "accomplishment" attributed to the Kingdom as a whole can rightfully be attributed to those contributing individuals and groups involved. Nothing attributed to the Kingdom as a whole can be attributed without the individuals and groups involved, at all.

I find particular irony in this statement:

Esan Vartesa wrote:

Actually, the very fact that the Republic was so completely blindsided by the existence of the Elder fleet is itself a condemnation of that institution. How could something so big, right under their noses, go entirely unnoticed?


You mean sort of like how the Empress' fleet came out of nowhere, completely unnoticed to fight back the previously unnoticed Matari threat?

You demand a modicum of intelligence to interact with you, but you must first demonstrate that you possess it yourself. Inflammatory comments, nonfactual assertions and petulantly asserting false superiority do not demonstrate this at all.

You're right about one thing though, silence does also work. You should try it.

~Malcolm Khross

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#49 - 2011-09-16 22:33:59 UTC
I've been informed that I should simplify it for you, so that it is easier to understand the legitimacy of my assertions to you.

Individuals make up a group.
Groups make up a corporation, or tribe, or clique, or sect, or any other similar corporate structure.
Corporations make up a society.
Societies make up governments.

If you remove individuals from the picture, everything falls apart into nonexistence. Thus, individual contributions are exactly what make up a government achievement or accomplishment. Thus, my original quoted examples to you are rightfully attributed to the Republic.

I really can't break it down any simpler than that. It holds true for every government across the cluster, including yours.

If we disregard everything else, this is the core of the discussion between you and I. I have accurately and factually discounted your first assertion that everything the Republic touches goes down the toilet, from which the rest of this pointless discussion proceeded.

If you wish for me to interact with you intelligently, then engage in an intelligent conversation. Your blatant inflammatory, insulting, demeaning and nonfactual assertions do not accomplish this task.

~Malcolm Khross

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#50 - 2011-09-16 23:24:14 UTC
Could someone call King Khanid and tell him his pet is off his meds again?

Thanks.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#51 - 2011-09-17 04:40:46 UTC
My record of constructive and inclusive contributions to the Arek'Jaalan project speaks for itself.

Project Theseus for example, received commendation from Dr. Tukoss himself.

So these allegations are really rather laughable. Ha.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Muck Raker
Gutter Press
#52 - 2011-09-17 08:35:43 UTC
Gutter Press again denies all rumours that Myxx is a generous sponsor of Gutter Press articles.

Rumours, Wars, Rumours of Wars, Wars of Rumours!

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2011-09-17 13:50:48 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Give them time to prove their merit with more than just words, Caellach-suuolo.

If we are not willing to afford them a chance, how could we ever expect the same from then. People do change.


Kalaratiri wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Give them time to prove their merit with more than just words, Caellach-suuolo.

If we are not willing to afford them a chance, how could we ever expect the same from then. People do change.


So do glaciers.



It is always nice to read that all the people having worked for a better Empire are forgotten so fast, replaced by the usual mob rule of the holy projedudice and generalization (on both sides of course).
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-09-17 18:20:02 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:


It is always nice to read that all the people having worked for a better Empire are forgotten so fast, replaced by the usual mob rule of the holy projedudice and generalization (on both sides of course).


For one, I have discounted nobody's efforts with any of my comments, in fact I was arguing that we should allow people's actions to match their words. I fail to see how this is prejudice or mob rule.

Secondly, the comment made by Kalaratiri was a remark about how most people and governments change slowly over a long period of time.

~Malcolm Khross

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#55 - 2011-09-17 18:49:07 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
Maybe back to the topic at hand?

Myxx, you really have to stop posturing and accept that you have been duped.

All reports indicate Delainen was killed. He intergrated himself into rogue drones and payed the price for it.

He is dead. Full stop.

Its improbable beyond any measure of sanity that there are Delainen clones running about, 1) becuase of the adverse effects as seen at Ok Fem and 2) CONCORD is mandated to actively hunt him down and kill multiple clones.

Nobody's buying it.

Bite the bullet.

**Vherokior **

Myxx
The Scope
#56 - 2011-09-17 19:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
N'maro Makari wrote:
Maybe back to the topic at hand?

Myxx, you really have to stop posturing and accept that you have been duped.

All reports indicate Delainen was killed. He intergrated himself into rogue drones and payed the price for it.

He is dead. Full stop.

Its improbable beyond any measure of sanity that there are Delainen clones running about, 1) becuase of the adverse effects as seen at Ok Fem and 2) CONCORD is mandated to actively hunt him down and kill multiple clones.

Nobody's buying it.

Bite the bullet.

and I'm saying I have the real article. You can choose not to buy it, but the answers I've been given say otherwise.

edit: I have something you don't have - verification that this guy is exactly who he says he is.

Second edit: I was being polite with Valerie. Won't do that again.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#57 - 2011-09-17 19:15:21 UTC
Myxx wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Maybe back to the topic at hand?

Myxx, you really have to stop posturing and accept that you have been duped.

All reports indicate Delainen was killed. He intergrated himself into rogue drones and payed the price for it.

He is dead. Full stop.

Its improbable beyond any measure of sanity that there are Delainen clones running about, 1) becuase of the adverse effects as seen at Ok Fem and 2) CONCORD is mandated to actively hunt him down and kill multiple clones.

Nobody's buying it.

Bite the bullet.

and I'm saying I have the real article. You can choose not to buy it, but the answers I've been given say otherwise.

edit: I have something you don't have - verification that this guy is exactly who he says he is.


What? His solemn word?

Whats the big secret, I mean if he is who he says he is, then why not just let everyone know how this is verified so you can stop embarrassing things like this happening.

**Vherokior **

Myxx
The Scope
#58 - 2011-09-17 19:17:31 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Myxx wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Maybe back to the topic at hand?

Myxx, you really have to stop posturing and accept that you have been duped.

All reports indicate Delainen was killed. He intergrated himself into rogue drones and payed the price for it.

He is dead. Full stop.

Its improbable beyond any measure of sanity that there are Delainen clones running about, 1) becuase of the adverse effects as seen at Ok Fem and 2) CONCORD is mandated to actively hunt him down and kill multiple clones.

Nobody's buying it.

Bite the bullet.

and I'm saying I have the real article. You can choose not to buy it, but the answers I've been given say otherwise.

edit: I have something you don't have - verification that this guy is exactly who he says he is.


What? His solemn word?

Whats the big secret, I mean if he is who he says he is, then why not just let everyone know how this is verified so you can stop embarrassing things like this happening.


I plan to release exactly that when the interview we've conducted is cleared.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#59 - 2011-09-17 19:21:27 UTC
Really?

Do scientists really place such a premium on dramatic timing?

**Vherokior **

Myxx
The Scope
#60 - 2011-09-17 19:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
N'maro Makari wrote:
Really?

Do scientists really place such a premium on dramatic timing?


It isnt so much that as it is that certain other people are in the business of revealing information. I am in the business of not revealing information until I want to reveal it.


In other words, some answers I have a need to have looked over before we publish anything.