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Dig Deeper: PLEX is the reason for the highsec v nullsec Drama

First post
Author
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-01-22 16:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Andski wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Nerf high sec Incursions rewards


PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE.


incursions and tech are basically competing entities

leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation


Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2012-01-22 16:58:44 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Andski wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Nerf high sec Incursions rewards


PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE.


incursions and tech are basically competing entities

leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation


Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec.


source?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Jenny Cameron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-01-22 16:59:21 UTC
Wot I Think wrote:
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

I thought EVE was about having fun, not making ISK?
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#24 - 2012-01-22 17:01:19 UTC
Jenny Cameron wrote:
Wot I Think wrote:
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

I thought EVE was about having fun, not making ISK?


Feel free to have fun being broke in New Eden.
I get what you are saying but they go hand in hand. ISK grind down time is the only thing they have to claim "hard".
Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#25 - 2012-01-22 17:02:54 UTC
Wot I Think wrote:
Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.


lol, you people are amazing with your bs theories.


Did it ever occure to you that some people like PvP and some people like PvE?

Its a GAME, people do what the like, that is all.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-01-22 17:08:34 UTC
op played anarchy online
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#27 - 2012-01-22 19:33:41 UTC
Andski wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Andski wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Nerf high sec Incursions rewards


PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE.


incursions and tech are basically competing entities

leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation


Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec.


source?


What is the problem with Nullsec Alliance members that they deny everything, even if it is commonly known to be true. Bounties scale with security level, so don't be a jackass.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-01-22 19:35:19 UTC
blaming "feature" not the one who made an decision to do what they did.

It will get you far.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#29 - 2012-01-22 20:05:29 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Wot I Think wrote:
Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.


You are a liar.
Pure and simple.
Your numbers are a complete fabrication.



His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly.

That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle.

Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil.

Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.


This is the one I have to wonder about. Are those Typo's? Obviously not, as the authors quite consistent; but then I have to wonder if he's completely off his rocker? Maybe misunderstood the question, or has no idea what he's talking about?

I've never run Incursions, but I have a very hard time believing this. I believe it's possible that 8 out of 100 pilots make 60-70 million ISK an hour each, and maybe as many as 3 times that running different sites in the same system. So that would actually be 24 pilots times ~70 million ISK, and equal about 1.68 billion ISK an hour for each Vanguard system.

Certainly not 100 pilots times 130 million ISK an hour, for 13 brillion ISK. Nowhere near a trillion ISK an hour; someone needs to stop drinking and posting.

Sure as heck a bunch of fleets, with 100 pilots total for all fleets, don't get a payout each. Even if you had 3 Vanguard sites in one system, and one fleet of 33 pilots per site farming; you'd find this wouldn't amount to much, because each pilot would be earning something like ~16 million each per hour.

Reward scales with number of pilots as far as I know; just like they do in Wormholes with Sleepers.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-01-22 20:17:09 UTC
not really drama so much as some guys hiding behind npc forum alts with deeply laden nullsec-inferiority complex issues
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#31 - 2012-01-22 20:19:30 UTC
One pro tip to the nullbears: Don't compare incursion income to the 23/7 cylce you let your bots run. No incursion pilot is online for that much time and because people don't bot they need a break from time to time, you will also have to factor sleep and a wide number of RL activities into this.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Onictus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2012-01-22 20:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Mars Theran wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Wot I Think wrote:
Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.


You are a liar.
Pure and simple.
Your numbers are a complete fabrication.



His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly.

That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle.

Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil.

Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.


This is the one I have to wonder about. Are those Typo's? Obviously not, as the authors quite consistent; but then I have to wonder if he's completely off his rocker? Maybe misunderstood the question, or has no idea what he's talking about?

I've never run Incursions, but I have a very hard time believing this. I believe it's possible that 8 out of 100 pilots make 60-70 million ISK an hour each, and maybe as many as 3 times that running different sites in the same system. So that would actually be 24 pilots times ~70 million ISK, and equal about 1.68 billion ISK an hour for each Vanguard system.

Certainly not 100 pilots times 130 million ISK an hour, for 13 brillion ISK. Nowhere near a trillion ISK an hour; someone needs to stop drinking and posting.

Sure as heck a bunch of fleets, with 100 pilots total for all fleets, don't get a payout each. Even if you had 3 Vanguard sites in one system, and one fleet of 33 pilots per site farming; you'd find this wouldn't amount to much, because each pilot would be earning something like ~16 million each per hour.

Reward scales with number of pilots as far as I know; just like they do in Wormholes with Sleepers.


SO wait you are telling me you have never tried it but i'm wrong.

It wasn't a typo douche bag, I said 100 mil per hour per pilot....I wasn't wrong and I wasn't bullshitting...that is an average fleet.

Good fleets pull 120 uncontested and shinies 150 mil PER HOUR.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-01-22 20:21:14 UTC
Quote:
One pro tip to the nullbears: Don't compare incursion income to the 23/7 cylce you let your bots run. No incursion pilot is online for that much time and because people don't bot they need a break from time to time, you will also have to factor sleep and a wide number of RL activities into this.

case in point
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#34 - 2012-01-22 20:36:22 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Wot I Think wrote:
Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.


You are a liar.
Pure and simple.
Your numbers are a complete fabrication.



His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly.

That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle.

Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil.

Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.


This is the one I have to wonder about. Are those Typo's? Obviously not, as the authors quite consistent; but then I have to wonder if he's completely off his rocker? Maybe misunderstood the question, or has no idea what he's talking about?

I've never run Incursions, but I have a very hard time believing this. I believe it's possible that 8 out of 100 pilots make 60-70 million ISK an hour each, and maybe as many as 3 times that running different sites in the same system. So that would actually be 24 pilots times ~70 million ISK, and equal about 1.68 billion ISK an hour for each Vanguard system.

Certainly not 100 pilots times 130 million ISK an hour, for 13 brillion ISK. Nowhere near a trillion ISK an hour; someone needs to stop drinking and posting.

Sure as heck a bunch of fleets, with 100 pilots total for all fleets, don't get a payout each. Even if you had 3 Vanguard sites in one system, and one fleet of 33 pilots per site farming; you'd find this wouldn't amount to much, because each pilot would be earning something like ~16 million each per hour.

Reward scales with number of pilots as far as I know; just like they do in Wormholes with Sleepers.


SO wait you are telling me you have never tried it but i'm wrong.

It wasn't a typo douche bag, I said 100 mil per hour per pilot....I wasn't wrong and I wasn't bullshitting...that is an average fleet.

Good fleets pull 120 uncontested and shinies 150 mil PER HOUR.


You also said 1 Trillion per hour per system. 100 pilots in 1 system running 130 million per hour per pilot is only 13 billion ISK.

If it was 23 Trillion ISK per day per Vaguard System, the economy would be completely fubar.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-01-22 20:42:14 UTC
next week incursions will make 175mil an hour!!!! quick everyone make posts!

I have more space likes than you. 

Onictus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2012-01-22 20:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
grr
Onictus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-01-22 20:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Onictus wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
[

You also said 1 Trillion per hour per system. 100 pilots in 1 system running 130 million per hour per pilot is only 13 billion ISK.

If it was 23 Trillion ISK per day per Vaguard System, the economy would be completely fubar.




Sorry 100 billion per hour


So 23 billion a day per system, sometimes three incursions, so 6 systems at a time.....1.38 trillion per day with three hi-sec incursions running.

Which is why plex when from around 290-325 when I started playing to 425-500 now depending on where the spike is.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#38 - 2012-01-22 21:16:18 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
One pro tip to the nullbears: Don't compare incursion income to the 23/7 cylce you let your bots run. No incursion pilot is online for that much time and because people don't bot they need a break from time to time, you will also have to factor sleep and a wide number of RL activities into this.

While a select number of 0.0 people are assholes and shamelessly run bots, please do not use them to besmirch the name of everyone in 0.0. The point OP was trying to make is that for leisurely pilots (the ones that you describe), in the same "few hours" of invested time, incursions are far more profitable than anything they could be doing in nullsec.

Select groups of few people, such as the ones with wallets full of moon goo isk or the ones with wallets full of botting/RMT isk do not belong in general comparisons like this.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-01-22 21:20:37 UTC
Wot I Think wrote:
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec ...
I wrote about this in November.


Tore Vest
#40 - 2012-01-22 21:21:24 UTC
Incursions have been around for a year....
It was when super nerf was anonced that plex prices went to the roof.....
So... I blame CCP/goons for current plex prices Bear

No troll.