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Recent incursion issues

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gfldex
#221 - 2012-01-22 17:09:50 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:

Go and buy some Tornadoes.
Fit them.
Find the mothership.
Kill the griefers, PROTECT THAT FAT COW FROM WHICH THY SUCKLES!


That does not work. It would provide killrights that would be used to gank those who protect the mom. Incursion runners avoid killright as the plague, they are true bears. Both TDF and BTL are helpless, there is no solution but to pay BR1CK to stop. I personally like that, still got quite a few CONCORD LP left. LP that _used_ to be worth 3000ISK/LP.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#222 - 2012-01-22 17:11:21 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
Nerfing Tec Moons, umm no, Alliances go threw great expense, time etc to secure, defend and maintain these moons, its a reward for securing sov as well. bad idea.


How is Sov related to moon ownership?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#223 - 2012-01-22 17:14:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Xpaulusx wrote:
Nerfing Tec Moons, umm no, Alliances go threw great expense, time etc to secure, defend and maintain these moons, its a reward for securing sov as well. bad idea.


How is Sov related to moon ownership?


Lets ask WN that one!
gfldex
#224 - 2012-01-22 17:16:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Of course bounties account for substantially more of an isk faucet overall than incursions alone. By quite a considerable amount.
Oh really? Source? Numbers?



There you go. Just sum it all up for all regions.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#225 - 2012-01-22 17:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Andski wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Of course bounties account for substantially more of an isk faucet overall than incursions alone. By quite a considerable amount.
Oh really? Source? Numbers?


Look at the QEN for the last quarter of 2010, it shows how much the isk faucets that bounties contribute.

I'd love to see current figures of course as the values would have likley incresed, but these are the official last records we have.


yeah Q4 2010, before incursions entered the game, nice one


Thats irrelavant genious as you can still get a good indicator of how much overall was being generated (a magnitude e.g. about 42 Tril / month by the last numbers) and see how substantial it is from it, even though pilot numbers and skills have increased that will likley add to the pot and then any economic factors.

Then look at incursion pilot numbers and relative earnings per hour and compare.

Do it for yourself if you like and see how much you consider the relative earnings are.

Personally, when you consider all the mission running and other activities by the vast majority of the player base it doesnt take much to imagine how much is being generated by comparison.

You want to nerf incursions you prove to the player base that they are the major contributor that needs to be considered over other things. Otherwise focus elsewhere where its needed.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#226 - 2012-01-22 17:21:44 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Andski wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Of course bounties account for substantially more of an isk faucet overall than incursions alone. By quite a considerable amount.
Oh really? Source? Numbers?


Look at the QEN for the last quarter of 2010, it shows how much the isk faucets that bounties contribute.

I'd love to see current figures of course as the values would have likley incresed, but these are the official last records we have.


yeah Q4 2010, before incursions entered the game, nice one


Thats irrelavant genious as you can still get a good indicator of how much overall was being generated (a magnitude e.g. about 42 Tril by the last numbers) and see how substantial it is from it, even though pilot numbers and skills have increased that will likley add to the pot and then any economic factors.

Then look at incursion pilot numbers and relative earnings per hour and compare.

Do it for yourself if you like and see how much you consider the relative earnings are.

Personally, when you consider all the mission running and other activities by the vast majority of the player base it doesnt take much to imagine how much is being generated by comparison.

You want to nerf incursions you prove to the player base that they are the major contributor that needs to be considered over other things. Otherwise focus elsewhere where its needed.


somebody's never heard of the anom nerf

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#227 - 2012-01-22 17:30:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Xpaulusx wrote:
Nerfing Tec Moons, umm no, Alliances go threw great expense, time etc to secure, defend and maintain these moons, its a reward for securing sov as well. bad idea.


How is Sov related to moon ownership?


Lets ask WN that one!


WN lost both at the same time. Correlation != Causative Linkage. Ask PL what Sov has to do with Tech ownership.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#228 - 2012-01-22 17:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
gfldex wrote:
There you go. Just sum it all up for all regions.
…which says nothing about the actual payout of all those kills, and provides even less information about incursions.

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Thats irrelavant genious as you can still get a good indicator of how much overall was being generated (a magnitude e.g. about 42 Tril / month by the last numbers) and see how substantial it is from it, even though pilot numbers and skills have increased that will likley add to the pot and then any economic factors.
No, it's not irrelevant, because it still doesn't provide the numbers you claim to have (or, perhaps more accurately, the numbers needed to make your claims).
Quote:
Do it for yourself if you like and see how much you consider the relative earnings are.
…or you could just provide them and show your sources, since you are the one making claims based on those numbers.
Quote:
Personally, when you consider all the mission running and other activities by the vast majority of the player base it doesnt take much to imagine how much is being generated by comparison.
Just one problem: imagination is not a source and cannot be used as a basis for anything.
nubile slave
Advanced Weapon Supplement League
Fraternity.
#229 - 2012-01-22 17:41:57 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Zosius wrote:
I love how goons and co (OP) create new toons to post tears. Good brand marketing, I salute you.


Point out the goons



Aren't you a Goon pet?
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2012-01-22 17:48:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
gfldex wrote:
There you go. Just sum it all up for all regions.
…which says nothing about the actual payout of all those kills, and provides even less information about incursions.

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Thats irrelavant genious as you can still get a good indicator of how much overall was being generated (a magnitude e.g. about 42 Tril / month by the last numbers) and see how substantial it is from it, even though pilot numbers and skills have increased that will likley add to the pot and then any economic factors.
No, it's not irrelevant, because it still doesn't provide the numbers you claim to have (or, perhaps more accurately, the numbers needed to make your claims).
Quote:
Do it for yourself if you like and see how much you consider the relative earnings are.
…or you could just provide them and show your sources, since you are the one making claims based on those numbers.
Quote:
Personally, when you consider all the mission running and other activities by the vast majority of the player base it doesnt take much to imagine how much is being generated by comparison.
Just one problem: imagination is not a source and cannot be used as a basis for anything.


Then by the same token can you provide supporting evidence that supports the claim that incurions ARE the main problem over other areas of the game.

I have done a previous exercise with someone else's claimed figures before in a previous thread that demonstrated based on the figures provided what the contribution was.

But unlike your other null slaves I dont jump around to address your whims when you click your fingers.

As the responsibility to support all the claims that they are an issue to begin with should come from those who are asking for things to be nerfed surely.

I'll give you a hand, all you have to do is work out how much the activities generate a month and compare it. Even as a rough guide it should help to indicate if there is any validity to the priorities of isk generating activities. And you even have the advantage of using 2010 figures as your baseline.

What would be useful of course is if we had a more up to date QEN also. Can't understand why CCP is draggin their heels reporting on it.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#231 - 2012-01-22 17:48:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Just one problem: imagination is not a source and cannot be used as a basis for anything.


Imagination is the source of all my childhood glee, and is the basis for my recent trip to Mars with my pet Tiger.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#232 - 2012-01-22 17:52:06 UTC
Didn't read the entire threadnaught, sorry, but I think there was a decent idea proposed in the summit minutes (or maybe I'm just making stuff up again):

Create milestones that have to be met at various stages before the overall Sansha influence meter can move. For example: several tiers of "bosses" that appear in stages and have to accomplished within a certain time frame. From there the Incursion's progress can increase again, but only if that boss is killed. It would certainly slow stuff down in a less artificial way (like just agreeing to not shoot the moms).

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Havoc Zealot
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2012-01-22 17:55:13 UTC
I actually logged in to reply to this thread.

I support these mom killings...they were meant to be killed and not have the lesser incursions farmed.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#234 - 2012-01-22 17:57:10 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Then by the same token can you provide supporting evidence that supports the claim that incurions ARE the main problem over other areas of the game.
I'm not making that claim.
Quote:
I have done a previous exercise with someone else's claimed figures before in a previous thread that demonstrated based on the figures provided what the contribution was.
…and the result (and source) was…?
Quote:
But unlike your other null slaves I dont jump around to address your whims when you click your fingers.
What on earth are you on about? Ugh
FadeIN Fr0St
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2012-01-22 17:59:51 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
HOLY JESUS!!!
I don't think I'll EVER need to refuel my tear drive ever again :D

Seriously:

BEST.
TEARS.
EVER.

Mad props to all involved :)


EDIT: Think I'm making this my browser home page.



This ^

"All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion."

Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#236 - 2012-01-22 18:02:24 UTC
Simple fix to end incursions when they should be. Don't spawn the HQ site, just spawn a mom that hotdrops the other sites to defend her minions.

Once she spawns, running the lesser sites becomes a high risk thing to do. Simply have her cyno into whichever incursion site currently has the highest population(or funnier, highest average isk value per ship, since those would be the biggest threat/ones that 0.0 dwellers would go for), and it becomes important to kill her off, since you can't really run sites under that threat.

Still gives the option of one group doing an extended engagement with her so everyone else can farm longer, but who will give up their isk long enough to do something like that? Bear

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#237 - 2012-01-22 18:04:01 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:


Then by the same token can you provide supporting evidence that supports the claim that incurions ARE the main problem over other areas of the game.

I have done a previous exercise with someone else's claimed figures before in a previous thread that demonstrated based on the figures provided what the contribution was.

But unlike your other null slaves I dont jump around to address your whims when you click your fingers.

As the responsibility to support all the claims that they are an issue to begin with should come from those who are asking for things to be nerfed surely.

I'll give you a hand, all you have to do is work out how much the activities generate a month and compare it. Even as a rough guide it should help to indicate if there is any validity to the priorities of isk generating activities. And you even have the advantage of using 2010 figures as your baseline.

What would be useful of course is if we had a more up to date QEN also. Can't understand why CCP is draggin their heels reporting on it.


Onus Probandi. You are making the argument that bounties are a larger Isk faucet than Incursions, therefor you must provide the evidence to back up the claim.

The QEN 2010 figures come before Incursions and before a Massive decrease in the number of people who can earn the highest available incomes in Null.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#238 - 2012-01-22 18:22:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Then by the same token can you provide supporting evidence that supports the claim that incurions ARE the main problem over other areas of the game.
I'm not making that claim.
Quote:
I have done a previous exercise with someone else's claimed figures before in a previous thread that demonstrated based on the figures provided what the contribution was.
…and the result (and source) was…?
Quote:
But unlike your other null slaves I dont jump around to address your whims when you click your fingers.
What on earth are you on about? Ugh


Apparently Tippia, you are a null sec overlord with throngs of slaves following you around and begging for candy.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#239 - 2012-01-22 18:27:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tres Farmer
JC Anderson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
*snip*
But unlike your other null slaves I dont jump around to address your whims when you click your fingers.
What on earth are you on about? Ugh
Apparently Tippia, you are a null sec overlord with throngs of slaves following you around and begging for candy.

I KNEW IT!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#240 - 2012-01-22 18:33:01 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
Apparently Tippia, you are a null sec overlord with throngs of slaves following you around and begging for candy.
Wow. Great. The things you miss if you don't pay attention. Shocked

Could my slaves please show themselves so I know whom to order around? Candy will indeed be provided.
Also, could someone please show me what part of nullsec I'm overlord of?