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I didn't vote. Here's why.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2017-03-27 22:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Brian Paone wrote:
(Removed - no point to a serious post, is there?...)

Need to give some time for players to view it. Never remove the content of a thread you posted.

Brian Paone wrote:
I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-)

You need to ignore the troll replies and only respond to those who genuinely have something to contribute to the discussion. Doesn't matter if it's positive or negative as long as it's polite and professional.

Brian Paone wrote:
The Council of Stellar Management is quite the interesting concept. (At least to me - I had a thing for politics back in the day.) But after looking it over, I decided not to participate for a few reasons:

* Lack of serious candidates: In my opinion, too few people took the idea seriously. There were more joke candidacies than most American presidential elections. If the candidates (in general and overall, not as a totality) can't take themselves or the process seriously, it's very difficult for me to do so.

* Weighted concept: As a concept, the CSM is weighted far too heavily in favor of large groups. There doesn't appear to be any kind of viable mechanism for small groups to have their voices given equal weight. I realize no form of government is perfect, but I feel more work can be done to give smaller, less visible groups a more equal place at the table. I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, to the point of even possible derision.

It's a great concept, but ultimately seems to be rubber-stamping. I'd like to see the process and candidates (again, overall, not in totality) mature a bit more before participating. Keep up the progress! o7


Overall I don't see anything wrong with your original post other than you deciding not to vote.

I've been playing this game for over 8 years now and I've only voted 4 times. I agree the system for getting candidates is flawed and the actual voting process definitely favors large Alliances. Since there is a large amount of placeholder candidates the only option available is to question each one and then vote for those who have viewpoints similar to your own.

Personally I think one of the prerequisites for CSM candidates should be having an active subscription for at least 2+ years. Also the character being used should be active in-game so that their running platform can be easily verified.

It would definitely make a big difference if everyone who was active in-game actually voted. There's a lot of active players in-game who don't know about CSM Elections. The main issue is how to inform them about it. I believe that issue can be easily resolved by CCP sending an Eve Mail message to all characters informing them about the upcoming election. CCP can also send another Eve Mail message reminding players that the polls will only be open during a set period of time.

Anyway, in the future don't remove the original thread content if you want to have a serious discussion about a topic. Main thing is to allow time for other players to post genuine replies. Also if you decide the thread has generated enough attention, just click the little flag report icon in the header next to the time stamp of your original post and ask ISD to close the thread.

DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2017-03-27 23:18:15 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

I believe that issue can be easily resolved by CCP sending an Eve Mail message to all characters informing them about the upcoming election. CCP can also send another Eve Mail message reminding players that the polls will only be open during a set period of time.


CCP had a big announcement front and center on the launcher.
there where also notifications sent out regularly IG, the ones I specifically remember, was a notification when the candidates where all announced. another one when voting started, a third when there was only a week left, a fourth just before the final weekend of voting and then a fifth one on the final day.

if a big banner on the launcher, and 5 or more IG notifications was not enough for players to pay attention too then I don't think anything they do would help.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2017-03-28 00:11:53 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

I believe that issue can be easily resolved by CCP sending an Eve Mail message to all characters informing them about the upcoming election. CCP can also send another Eve Mail message reminding players that the polls will only be open during a set period of time.


CCP had a big announcement front and center on the launcher.
there where also notifications sent out regularly IG, the ones I specifically remember, was a notification when the candidates where all announced. another one when voting started, a third when there was only a week left, a fourth just before the final weekend of voting and then a fifth one on the final day.

if a big banner on the launcher, and 5 or more IG notifications was not enough for players to pay attention too then I don't think anything they do would help.

You must have a different game launcher than what I have because I didn't see any large banner advertising CSM Election. There's a small section on the lower right side which mostly promotes PLEX sales, deals for upgrading to Omega status and Ship skins. The Eve News section on the lower left side has way too many listings in small print to actually garner players attention.

I bet most players just look for the blue launcher download status for 'Ready' and then click the appropriate account to launch. Having a full page advert for CSM Elections load up before the character selection screen would definitely get players attention.

The notifications you're referring to in-game are small and fleeting as well as being intermixed with skill training completion notifications, contacts, etc. An Eve Mail message containing information is a lot more noticeable and lasts much longer than some quick little notification flyby that only lasts onscreen for a few seconds.

I think every single type of media option that's currently available in-game should be used to help inform all players. Definitely wouldn't hurt.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2017-03-28 07:39:00 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
I dont believe in people to actually be good in any moral sense.
As far as I have seen, people don't vote for someone because they are convinced that their candidate is the best possible option of ever. That's sheep. People vote for they are convinced that the -other- candidates are abysmal, and they have to do what they can to keep them away from power.

Guess it's the same in EvE too. Smile


The fact that voting IRL goes that way quite often is kinda terrible IMO. We settle for the lesser turd instead of finding the shooting star.


Working as intended. Voting sucks.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2017-03-28 07:46:11 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
To anyone that doesn't vote, if you don't speak how can you complain about the outcome?


Actually I put it like this: I didn't vote for the bastards, so I'm not part of the problem. For those who did...they created the problem.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2017-03-28 07:49:51 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
To anyone that doesn't vote, if you don't speak how can you complain about the outcome?

Carebears.

They'll complain about everything.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Vigirr
#27 - 2017-03-28 07:52:22 UTC
1) CSM is a publicity stunt without merit
2) I don't trust CCP to do it right™ anyway, the Seagull era isn't delivering what it implied
3) it's going to be abused anyway, knowledge is power

TMDV: Too meaningless, didn't vote.
roberts dragon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2017-03-28 07:59:05 UTC
gets the popcorn out , really its looks like more nudge nudge wink wink say no more .how to placate the mob feed them science and a few csms .
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2017-03-28 09:46:23 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
To anyone that doesn't vote, if you don't speak how can you complain about the outcome?

I *would* vote if there was option "Disband CSM".

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jacques d'Orleans
#30 - 2017-03-28 13:05:43 UTC
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Brian Paone wrote:
I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-)

All the best.


What does it feel like to be so weak that mere words in a forum thread offend you?

Brian is a very special sort of snowflake Jacques. He has mastered completely the nose-in-the-air turn-on-the-heel and flounce-out-the-door scene.

I'd happily discuss his ideas with him, if he and they warranted the attention he so ardently believes they merit. I've been having a to-and-fro with him in a thread elsewhere, but it's the same darned thing as here. Given a platform, he's comfortable (if pompous) and clearly in his element. As soon as the mic is passed to a critic, he pops.

Good luck trying catch snowflakes, let alone pin them down..


I would love to hear a podcast with you and someone like Brian who would stand to his oppinon and beliefes without resorting to the usual Generation Carebear rhetoric.
But sadly most, if not all, of them are not even able to do that, they're a real pussy generation it seems.

Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
Salvos Rhoska
#31 - 2017-03-28 14:54:10 UTC
Tiighter NDA and more transparency.

Might seem contradictory, but it really isnt.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Brian Paone
Doomheim
#32 - 2017-03-31 11:13:00 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Brian Paone wrote:
(Removed - no point to a serious post, is there?...)

Need to give some time for players to view it. Never remove the content of a thread you posted.

Brian Paone wrote:
I suppose the CSM is merely a reflection of what I'm seeing on the forum, then. You lot really aren't all that interested in conversation, are you. :-)

You need to ignore the troll replies and only respond to those who genuinely have something to contribute to the discussion. Doesn't matter if it's positive or negative as long as it's polite and professional.

Brian Paone wrote:
The Council of Stellar Management is quite the interesting concept. (At least to me - I had a thing for politics back in the day.) But after looking it over, I decided not to participate for a few reasons:

* Lack of serious candidates: In my opinion, too few people took the idea seriously. There were more joke candidacies than most American presidential elections. If the candidates (in general and overall, not as a totality) can't take themselves or the process seriously, it's very difficult for me to do so.

* Weighted concept: As a concept, the CSM is weighted far too heavily in favor of large groups. There doesn't appear to be any kind of viable mechanism for small groups to have their voices given equal weight. I realize no form of government is perfect, but I feel more work can be done to give smaller, less visible groups a more equal place at the table. I also feel NPC corporations are badly underrepresented, to the point of even possible derision.

It's a great concept, but ultimately seems to be rubber-stamping. I'd like to see the process and candidates (again, overall, not in totality) mature a bit more before participating. Keep up the progress! o7


Overall I don't see anything wrong with your original post other than you deciding not to vote.

I've been playing this game for over 8 years now and I've only voted 4 times. I agree the system for getting candidates is flawed and the actual voting process definitely favors large Alliances. Since there is a large amount of placeholder candidates the only option available is to question each one and then vote for those who have viewpoints similar to your own.

Personally I think one of the prerequisites for CSM candidates should be having an active subscription for at least 2+ years. Also the character being used should be active in-game so that their running platform can be easily verified.

It would definitely make a big difference if everyone who was active in-game actually voted. There's a lot of active players in-game who don't know about CSM Elections. The main issue is how to inform them about it. I believe that issue can be easily resolved by CCP sending an Eve Mail message to all characters informing them about the upcoming election. CCP can also send another Eve Mail message reminding players that the polls will only be open during a set period of time.

Anyway, in the future don't remove the original thread content if you want to have a serious discussion about a topic. Main thing is to allow time for other players to post genuine replies. Also if you decide the thread has generated enough attention, just click the little flag report icon in the header next to the time stamp of your original post and ask ISD to close the thread.

DMC


Thanks for letting me know how to get this flagged for closure. I'll do just that.

Further, how can I get my forum account permanently closed? I have no wish to continue participating in this particular facet of the community and would like very much to resist the temptation going forward.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#33 - 2017-03-31 16:22:40 UTC
Brian Paone wrote:

Further, how can I get my forum account permanently closed? I have no wish to continue participating in this particular facet of the community and would like very much to resist the temptation going forward.

Your options are self control or quit the game entirely.



EvE security zones in pictures

EvE quick reference pdf

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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#34 - 2017-03-31 16:38:32 UTC
Much like in real life, I was denied my right to vote due to being part of the underclass (Alpha).

Mr Epeen Cool
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#35 - 2017-03-31 17:14:50 UTC
I don't really get you non-voters. There was plenty of non-bloc candidates in so many playstyles.. highseccers lack the organization that the big alliances have but even if you filled all your slots randomly with them in any order could have been enough to upset even one or two of those evil bloc votes. You can go with the sheep or change your mindset knowing that it starts with you. The CSM is very unique and I can't really say there's any other game that has this.

I don't know the raw numbers or anything but I've read on Neville Smit's blog and he's got it figured like 80% of the game's subscribers call highsec home. So sad how we all lose out as many seats as we do to the tiny minority everywhere else, or how one alliance can have 4/10 seats. And it's not just highseccers - I've seen prominent lowsec pirates also 'stick it to the man' by not participating. What a waste!

Thanks for putting up with the Eve Community Mob as much as you do CCP.

@lunettelulu7
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2017-03-31 23:27:20 UTC
Brian Paone wrote:

Thanks for letting me know how to get this flagged for closure. I'll do just that.

Further, how can I get my forum account permanently closed? I have no wish to continue participating in this particular facet of the community and would like very much to resist the temptation going forward.

No problem and you're welcome.

Your Eve Online Account gives you access to the game and to the forums. Other than stop posting and creating threads, the only way to actually close your forum account is close the browser tab of the page that's currently open.

However I suggest taking it easy and just browse these forums for a bit. There's a lot of good info available in the various sub-forums, course you may have to sift through some trash first to find the treasure.

Blink



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2017-03-31 23:47:31 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tiighter NDA and more transparency.

And what specific clauses of the current NDA need tightening?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#38 - 2017-04-01 00:53:35 UTC
Brian Paone wrote:
(Removed - no point to a serious post, is there? ISD, please remove at your leisure; thank you.)



Geez man...at least have the courage of your convictions. Even if I don't agree with you, I can still respect that. By removing it, I don't agree with you AND I don't respect you.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#39 - 2017-04-01 00:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Brian Paone wrote:

Thanks for letting me know how to get this flagged for closure. I'll do just that.

Further, how can I get my forum account permanently closed? I have no wish to continue participating in this particular facet of the community and would like very much to resist the temptation going forward.

No problem and you're welcome.

Your Eve Online Account gives you access to the game and to the forums. Other than stop posting and creating threads, the only way to actually close your forum account is close the browser tab of the page that's currently open.

However I suggest taking it easy and just browse these forums for a bit. There's a lot of good info available in the various sub-forums, course you may have to sift through some trash first to find the treasure.

Blink



DMC



Suggestion #1: Stay out of the General Discussion sub forum. Stick to the Gameplay Center. That's where serious people post serious issues and get serious responses (mostly). This sub forum is where you come to troll and be trolled - and maybe make some relevant points along the way.
Brian Paone
Doomheim
#40 - 2017-04-12 10:08:38 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Brian Paone wrote:

Thanks for letting me know how to get this flagged for closure. I'll do just that.

Further, how can I get my forum account permanently closed? I have no wish to continue participating in this particular facet of the community and would like very much to resist the temptation going forward.

No problem and you're welcome.

Your Eve Online Account gives you access to the game and to the forums. Other than stop posting and creating threads, the only way to actually close your forum account is close the browser tab of the page that's currently open.

However I suggest taking it easy and just browse these forums for a bit. There's a lot of good info available in the various sub-forums, course you may have to sift through some trash first to find the treasure.

Blink



DMC


Nah, **** this noise raw and bloody. There MIGHT be decent content here, but I'm too old to go sifting through mountains of narcissistic sociopathy to find a few decent folks. I don't have to do that in-game; I shouldn't have to do it here.

If forum and game accounts are connected, then it is what it is. I'll clarify that with customer service and, if that's the case, I'll shut down the whole Goddamned thing and just move on.

You know, like so many other people have. But I'm sure that's my fault. :-)

Thanks again.
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