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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Pirate BPC's
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Rediroriad Asdorad
The Lone Warrior.
#1 - 2017-03-28 21:33:02 UTC
Hello Everyone,

As has been lately mentioned a lot around the community, the cost for (especially) pirate battleships is extreemly low. This comes because the insane amount of ratting done in the various nullsec areas. On the other hand we can see that faction ships are getting even more expensive since there is not much use to them anymore since they cannot even compete in price with the pirate battleships.

My idea is to treat Pirate BPC generation (except the SoE and Mordus Legion mechancis) the same way as Faction BPC generation is done. Namely through LP stores. And no longer droppable from DED sites or faction spawns.

Now what would change with that?

Well, firstly the price of BPC's would go obviously up. Which in turn makes the NPC nullsec space a lot (a big a lot) more important and usefull. Which would see more activity there in form of mission runners but also the hunters.

Secondly, for the DED site runners and Faction spawn hunters there will be a decrease in income. but this should only last for a while because the more people move on to do other activities to make isk the loot from the sites and faction spawns will get more valuable and in turn morw worth doing. As it stands as of this moment the BPC drop is nice to have but doesnt add that much value to a DED site anyway.

Does more need to change to make this work?

Maybe, more ways of gaining PIrate LP would make it more balanced.


All in all, I think that with a possible change like this the market will stabalize at a way higher price for Pirate ships and in particular the battleships. This would bring them more in line with their obvious strenght over the faction ships and in a smaller degree to t1 ships.

While I focused mainly on battleship BPC's in this I think that for the cruiser and frigate pirate lines it actually wouldnt hurt all that much.

Hope this gives some food for thought

Red
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#2 - 2017-03-28 22:17:09 UTC
While this would buff NPC null, it would nerf all of sov null and lowsec... you're shifting the blueprints from one part of space to another.

How would I, as someone who has shot lots of Serpentis rats and gotten a very low standing to them be able to do missions for them?
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2017-03-29 00:02:37 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
While this would buff NPC null, it would nerf all of sov null and lowsec... you're shifting the blueprints from one part of space to another.

How would I, as someone who has shot lots of Serpentis rats and gotten a very low standing to them be able to do missions for them?


the same way you restore standings with any other group, by very slowly working your way back up.

with criminal connections V it really doesn't take much to get back above the -2 standings cutoff to get access to higher level agents. from there you can grind up the standings to do lvl 4 missions in a day or less.

I think they would need to add epic arcs for the other pirate factions to smooth that transition (something I have wanted to see for a long time anyways) in which case a single run of the epic arc (takes an afternoon) would get you all the standings boost you would need to run any lvl pirate missions once you got the rep for that corp.

as for redistributing the wealth, I don't actually see that as being a bad thing, I'd say leave the drops as being available in low-sec (similar to how the low-sec incursions are the only place to get the carrier bpc from incursions) so they don't suffer from the change. but with all the other bonuses and benefits to sov null, NPC null could use a bit of a boost since right now its widely considered to be more or less worthless.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#4 - 2017-03-29 08:20:00 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
...as for redistributing the wealth, I don't actually see that as being a bad thing, I'd say leave the drops as being available in low-sec (similar to how the low-sec incursions are the only place to get the carrier bpc from incursions) so they don't suffer from the change. but with all the other bonuses and benefits to sov null, NPC null could use a bit of a boost since right now its widely considered to be more or less worthless.


I do.

Nobody will ever brute force me to do missions for the pirate faction, only to never go to highsec again.

DED complexes are fine the way they are. The sov bobbs are only ever interested in warping their sooper doopers to the next sanctum anyways.

NPC is plenty valuable. See the remains of the former stainwagon. They are molesting my home by their unwanted presence.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#5 - 2017-03-29 08:21:42 UTC
I would prefer to have CCP change the bill of material - incorporate some pirate Faction Materials. These things are listed on the market but I've never encountered a use for them.

The price spread between pirate, navy and regular T1 battleships does not reflect the difference in capability - the pirate hulls are overpowered relative to their cost.
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#6 - 2017-03-29 19:08:58 UTC
I think if this was paired with an ESS for LP gain with the pirate factions you would have better luck getting it implemented. I can't imagine most of the nullbear population is there because of grinding standings, so expecting everyone to drop anomolies to start doing missions is kind of a non-starter.

I do agree with the premise tho, pirate BS BPCs are kind of cheap given the strength and prevalence of the ships.
Rediroriad Asdorad
The Lone Warrior.
#7 - 2017-03-29 21:35:49 UTC
There is no intention in these ideas to make anom ratters go to NPC space. The idea is to get mission runners over to NPC nullsec. And let them provide with the BPC's needed for the market. The only way to get the prices actually increased is making sure it is more dangerous to get them.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2017-03-29 22:08:33 UTC
Rediroriad Asdorad wrote:
There is no intention in these ideas to make anom ratters go to NPC space. The idea is to get mission runners over to NPC nullsec. And let them provide with the BPC's needed for the market. The only way to get the prices actually increased is making sure it is more dangerous to get them.


exactly I don't see this as being a direct nerf to anom ratting so much as a nerf to the oversupply of pirate bpc's, which would result in an increase in price of pirate hulls, which would in turn act as a buff to npc null, making it more viable to live there (which also gives smaller corps more options for getting a foothold in null besides becoming a renter) as well as bringing t1 battleships back as a more affordable meta.

I would even be okay with seeing an increase in the drop rate of pirate modules from anoms, since those are still disproportionately expensive compared to the hulls, and it makes more sense that in combat sites they would have combat modules than ship blueprints. which would mitigate the ISK loss from the change.

Quote:
I think if this was paired with an ESS for LP gain with the pirate factions you would have better luck getting it implemented. I can't imagine most of the nullbear population is there because of grinding standings, so expecting everyone to drop anomolies to start doing missions is kind of a non-starter.


I am in favor of this.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-03-30 13:29:20 UTC
The only reason why pirate BS seem to be cheap is because faction ones didn't follow. The reason why those didn't follow is essentially because the LP is better used on other items than a BS BPC.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2017-03-30 14:46:08 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
How would I, as someone who has shot lots of Serpentis rats and gotten a very low standing to them be able to do missions for them?

Alts, like everyone else does because running missions for Serpentis, Angel Cartel or Blood Raider seriously wrecks your Empire standings, and actually living there?

For this to be feasible, the pirate factions, Serpentis and Blood Raider in particular, would need to get a bit more space and a couple more agents in order to reduce the power concentration in the hands of few big groups (Most L4 agents for Angel Cartel are in 1 system in Curse, just as an example) so that smaller groups can benefit from "less perfect" systems as well and liven up all available space.

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#11 - 2017-03-30 17:09:50 UTC
Wait so isn't all of null for goons alone?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

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Deckel
Island Paradise
#12 - 2017-03-31 18:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Deckel
Do Little wrote:
I would prefer to have CCP change the bill of material - incorporate some pirate Faction Materials. These things are listed on the market but I've never encountered a use for them.

The price spread between pirate, navy and regular T1 battleships does not reflect the difference in capability - the pirate hulls are overpowered relative to their cost.


I like the idea of enhancing the materials list to include some rares.

Added to this though, I think that the rare pirate faction materials that are used should be able to be both purchased through the Pirate LP stores and found through ratting as this will ensure that there are price equalization forces between both groups.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2017-04-01 00:14:12 UTC
Deckel wrote:
Do Little wrote:
I would prefer to have CCP change the bill of material - incorporate some pirate Faction Materials. These things are listed on the market but I've never encountered a use for them.

The price spread between pirate, navy and regular T1 battleships does not reflect the difference in capability - the pirate hulls are overpowered relative to their cost.


I like the idea of enhancing the materials list to include some rares.

Added to this though, I think that the rare pirate faction materials that are used should be able to be both purchased through the Pirate LP stores and found through ratting as this will ensure that there are price equalization forces between both groups.


Have you ever lived in NPC null?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Deckel
Island Paradise
#14 - 2017-04-01 00:46:11 UTC
elitatwo wrote:

Have you ever lived in NPC null?


Only visit it once in a while, but please elaborate on what you mean. The Rare Faction Material would be too easily acquired through pirate LP? or no one actually does the pirate missions to get LP so could never depend upon it?

The point is that Pirate ships are basically too cheap due to plentiful blueprints. By including rare mats as an ingredient, by them having drop rates lower than the blueprint drop rates, the extra demand has to be fulfilled through LP, and the amount of LP needed for the purchase should signify the increase in price that is desired.
Cade Windstalker
#15 - 2017-04-01 03:11:57 UTC
This is an over-complicated and unnecessary change. If CCP wants to push the prices of Pirate BSes up the only thing they need to do is change the drop rates. Moving their source entirely to Pirate LP stores would have a drastic and unpredictable effect on their drop rates.

Also you don't seem to be aware that these BPCs are already available through the pirate LP stores. If you go and do missions for the Serpentis right now you can get a Vindicator BPC.