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Command Centre upgrades (CCU) PG & CPU per level?
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Dane Tesla
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2017-03-03 19:37:19 UTC
In regard to the CCU, I found the following wiki link Planetary_buildings that helps to explain the 'oddness' that I find with the level upgrade benefit, in that wouldn't one expect that the more that one puts in, (training time and ISK cost for each of the level upgrades), the more that one would get out?

It would seem logical right?

This would appear not to be the case though, upgrading through lvls 1 - 3 gets you 3Kmw PG per level, but lvls 4 & 5 only get you 2Kmw PG per level, hence the feeling of being 'short changed', same thing goes for CPU upgrades.

So is there a possibility to equal this out, so lvls 4 & 5 also get at least the same 3Kmw, or go with an additional 1Kmw per level so lvl1 gets you 1KM, lvl2 gets you 2Kmw etc etc, lvl5 gets you 5Kmw, or perhaps go with lvls 1 & 2 gets you 2Kmw each, lvls 3 & 4 gets you 3Kmw each and lvl5 gets you 4Kmw, giving the impression that the more that you're willing to invest time and effort in, the bigger the return will be, (like in RL.)?

Thanks in advance
DT
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2 - 2017-03-03 19:44:22 UTC
EVE is a game of diminishing returns, higher or more specialised skills tend to have less impact. Much like IRL, 50% effort gets you 90% of the way in most cases.
Normalising it to 3/level be clearer to players wouldn't be a bad reasoning, but that's more related to information presentation arguments than 'We should get more at high levels'
Dane Tesla
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2017-03-03 20:30:31 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
EVE is a game of diminishing returns, higher or more specialised skills tend to have less impact. Much like IRL, 50% effort gets you 90% of the way in most cases.
Normalising it to 3/level be clearer to players wouldn't be a bad reasoning, but that's more related to information presentation arguments than 'We should get more at high levels'



Err, no, have you looked at the traits/descriptions of ships/skills etc, i.e. the 'per skill level' section of ships / percentage bonus amount 'per skill level', yes something like Heavy Missiles gets you 5% 'per level' whereas Heavy Missiles 'Specialised' only gets you 2% per level, but at least its consistent for each skill level, where as the CCU upgrades are not.

The point I'm making is that to train CCU to lvl 5 is like a 21 day skill in itself, to get just lvl 4 is circa 3¾ days on its own, and all you get is 2Kmw, plus you pay a few extra mil each time for the privilege, hence all that time circa 25 days in all (1 months sub) for lvl 4 and 5 and all you get is an extra 4Kmw, but doing just circa 19hrs of training for lvl 1-3 gets you 9kmw, seems like we're being short changed right?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2017-03-03 20:44:09 UTC
Dane Tesla wrote:


Err, no, have you looked at the traits/descriptions of ships/skills etc, i.e. the 'per skill level' section of ships / percentage bonus amount 'per skill level', yes something like Heavy Missiles gets you 5% 'per level' whereas Heavy Missiles 'Specialised' only gets you 2% per level, but at least its consistent for each skill level, where as the CCU upgrades are not.

The point I'm making is that to train CCU to lvl 5 is like a 21 day skill in itself, to get just lvl 4 is circa 3¾ days on its own, and all you get is 2Kmw, plus you pay a few extra mil each time for the privilege, hence all that time circa 25 days in all (1 months sub) for lvl 4 and 5 and all you get is an extra 4Kmw, but doing just circa 19hrs of training for lvl 1-3 gets you 9kmw, seems like we're being short changed right?

That is exactly what diminishing returns means.
Also yes most skills are an equal percent per level increase, but relatively it's still a smaller increase per level to the previous levels value. Maths works like that.

Though like I said, having it at 3 per level for clarity of information wouldn't be bad. Or more likely 2.6 per level so you come out the same in the end.
But you are certainly not going to get more, and yes it's longer training for those last little bits either way.
Altair IbnLaAhad
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2017-03-30 06:12:38 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

That is exactly what diminishing returns means.
Also yes most skills are an equal percent per level increase, but relatively it's still a smaller increase per level to the previous levels value. Maths works like that.

Though like I said, having it at 3 per level for clarity of information wouldn't be bad. Or more likely 2.6 per level so you come out the same in the end.
But you are certainly not going to get more, and yes it's longer training for those last little bits either way.



So like compound increase:
1st level 5,00% 100 5
2nd level 4,76% 105 5
3rd level 4,55% 110 5
4th level 4,35% 115 5
5th level 4,17% 120 5
Total. 125 25


An extra 3K per level is just fine, but who are you, or who do you think you are to think that you have been blessed to pass final judgement and naively to say we're not going to get anymore?
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2017-03-30 16:42:22 UTC
For most things, once you hit level three, you can pretty much fly it, fight in it, or operate it at a decent level, this involves anything. I've discovered that the last two levels on a skill tend to be more focus on give you that small edge over others that are flying the same thing. Not a HUGE edge, just a small one. Though if you know what you are doing an are truly dedicated to what ever that level five skill gives you, then all you need is a small edge over the competition.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2017-03-30 20:38:20 UTC
Yeah planetary skills are a mess, pi needs a huge overhaul anyway.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-03-31 17:02:59 UTC
Those numbers were probably chosen specifically for some kind of balance reason back when PI was first introduced. That said, PI is long overdue for some serious work, and evaluating those levels would be part of that, I would think.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Dane Tesla
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2017-04-01 10:39:04 UTC
Altair IbnLaAhad wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

That is exactly what diminishing returns means.
Also yes most skills are an equal percent per level increase, but relatively it's still a smaller increase per level to the previous levels value. Maths works like that.

Though like I said, having it at 3 per level for clarity of information wouldn't be bad. Or more likely 2.6 per level so you come out the same in the end.
But you are certainly not going to get more, and yes it's longer training for those last little bits either way.



So like compound increase:
1st level 5,00% 100 5
2nd level 4,76% 105 5
3rd level 4,55% 110 5
4th level 4,35% 115 5
5th level 4,17% 120 5
Total. 125 25


An extra 3K per level is just fine, but who are you, or who do you think you are to think that you have been blessed to pass final judgement and naively to say we're not going to get anymore?



Exactly, as you show each level gets you plus 5 units each time, so why isn't the PG increase 3k each time, why only 2k for lvl4 and lvl5 as stated in the original email, consistantcy please, and another thing, the skills 'Planetology and Adv. Planetology, does Adv. Planetology really do anything remotely that 'increases' the yield effect that extractor control unit heads consume out of the ground, or as their skill description implies, only improve the 'scan visualisation resolution' heat map of the planet when observing the concentration of a selected planet mineral source, implying that really you only actually need Remote Sensing to level 1, in order to deploy your PI, just read off of the extractor head survey program, program output does the same job on the heat map, but needing far less training to say a respectable level 4 of Adv. Planetology that needs Planetology to lvl4, total 8 day 13½ hours?, but pretty much make both of those skills not entirely necessary, right?