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[MAY] Blood Raider Capitals

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Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#41 - 2017-03-27 17:46:41 UTC
I am so looking forward to the Molok that I didn't bother looking at the stats of the fax/dread.
The sad news is, they aren't all that great as seen by the number shown above. The dread is a nice idea, and better now that the typo for 2 turrets is fixed to 3. The neut pressure with capital neuts will be decent, but the price they will come out at will make it far from field worthy.
Only those rich dirty birds from my NC bros and PL cousins, plus those icky goons will be able to field the molok. And that will be just for #nopoors status.
I don't have a problem with that. But the dread and fax? Make their mineral cost reasonable so they can actually be made a reasonable cost.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2017-03-27 17:48:08 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Since the Molok has the ability to fit both Doomsday's and Generators of both races those are going to be Massive in wasted m3 space for unpackaged for refitting on the fly. You are talking an extra 10000 m3 or 1/10th of the Moloks entire Fleet Hangar being used for these two modules alone for just one type of race. Let's also not forget the m3 of Capital Nos, Neuts, Capital props, various non racial Doomsday types as well as every other various refit you'll need. Instead of giving the Molok some stupid gimmicky corpse bay half the damn thing and double the Fleet Hangar so we can use the ships versatility. I shouldn't have to fandangle and jumble around a limited fleet hangar for a ship that costs 3x the amount of a regular Titan and stare at a near empty coprse bay.

Aside from that loving the stats love the SMA size, the 4 turret DPS layout I would prefer an extra mid slot seeing as the Vanquisher already has the extra 8th low and a bigger increase to the raw Armor to make the Molok more of an incentive towards aquiring. So far everything else looks pretty dope. Twisted


What if it was meant so you had to make choices?
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2017-03-27 17:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Since the Molok has the ability to fit both Doomsday's and Generators of both races those are going to be Massive in wasted m3 space for unpackaged for refitting on the fly. You are talking an extra 10000 m3 or 1/10th of the Moloks entire Fleet Hangar being used for these two modules alone for just one type of race. Let's also not forget the m3 of Capital Nos, Neuts, Capital props, various non racial Doomsday types as well as every other various refit you'll need. Instead of giving the Molok some stupid gimmicky corpse bay half the damn thing and double the Fleet Hangar so we can use the ships versatility. I shouldn't have to fandangle and jumble around a limited fleet hangar for a ship that costs 3x the amount of a regular Titan and stare at a near empty coprse bay.

Aside from that loving the stats love the SMA size, the 4 turret DPS layout I would prefer an extra mid slot seeing as the Vanquisher already has the extra 8th low and a bigger increase to the raw Armor to make the Molok more of an incentive towards aquiring. So far everything else looks pretty dope. Twisted


What if it was meant so you had to make choices?



Please explain how you "make" choices when they are limited yet CCP gives you a ship that can fit multiple variants yet not have the space to DO so. Not to mention the SMA is larger than a standard Avatar so why wouldn't the Fleet Hangar be as well when the modules it carries and uses are massive when unpackaged?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2017-03-27 17:54:39 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Since the Molok has the ability to fit both Doomsday's and Generators of both races those are going to be Massive in wasted m3 space for unpackaged for refitting on the fly. You are talking an extra 10000 m3 or 1/10th of the Moloks entire Fleet Hangar being used for these two modules alone for just one type of race. Let's also not forget the m3 of Capital Nos, Neuts, Capital props, various non racial Doomsday types as well as every other various refit you'll need. Instead of giving the Molok some stupid gimmicky corpse bay half the damn thing and double the Fleet Hangar so we can use the ships versatility. I shouldn't have to fandangle and jumble around a limited fleet hangar for a ship that costs 3x the amount of a regular Titan and stare at a near empty coprse bay.

Aside from that loving the stats love the SMA size, the 4 turret DPS layout I would prefer an extra mid slot seeing as the Vanquisher already has the extra 8th low and a bigger increase to the raw Armor to make the Molok more of an incentive towards aquiring. So far everything else looks pretty dope. Twisted


What if it was meant so you had to make choices?



Please explain how you "make" choices when they are limited yet CCP gives you a ship that can fit multiple variants yet not have the space to DO so. Not to mention the SMA is larger than a standard Avatar so why wouldn't the Fleet Hangar be as well when the modules it carries and uses are massive when unpackaged?


The choice is which modules you carry. You have space for X modules but you have Y fitting options. Y > X mean you have to make a choice of what you bring and what you don't. If you want to bring 12 different mods but only have space for 10, then you build a list and make decisions.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2017-03-27 18:00:44 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Since the Molok has the ability to fit both Doomsday's and Generators of both races those are going to be Massive in wasted m3 space for unpackaged for refitting on the fly. You are talking an extra 10000 m3 or 1/10th of the Moloks entire Fleet Hangar being used for these two modules alone for just one type of race. Let's also not forget the m3 of Capital Nos, Neuts, Capital props, various non racial Doomsday types as well as every other various refit you'll need. Instead of giving the Molok some stupid gimmicky corpse bay half the damn thing and double the Fleet Hangar so we can use the ships versatility. I shouldn't have to fandangle and jumble around a limited fleet hangar for a ship that costs 3x the amount of a regular Titan and stare at a near empty coprse bay.

Aside from that loving the stats love the SMA size, the 4 turret DPS layout I would prefer an extra mid slot seeing as the Vanquisher already has the extra 8th low and a bigger increase to the raw Armor to make the Molok more of an incentive towards aquiring. So far everything else looks pretty dope. Twisted


What if it was meant so you had to make choices?



Please explain how you "make" choices when they are limited yet CCP gives you a ship that can fit multiple variants yet not have the space to DO so. Not to mention the SMA is larger than a standard Avatar so why wouldn't the Fleet Hangar be as well when the modules it carries and uses are massive when unpackaged?


The choice is which modules you carry. You have space for X modules but you have Y fitting options. Y > X mean you have to make a choice of what you bring and what you don't. If you want to bring 12 different mods but only have space for 10, then you build a list and make decisions.


As if I already don't have a list in the Avatar I currently own. Roll I am telling you that with the required additional modules for the Molok to carry it will NOT have sufficient space to do so. You also need a minimum of 5000 m3 of space for swapping so in actuality the m3 size is only really 95k m3.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2017-03-27 18:02:48 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Since the Molok has the ability to fit both Doomsday's and Generators of both races those are going to be Massive in wasted m3 space for unpackaged for refitting on the fly. You are talking an extra 10000 m3 or 1/10th of the Moloks entire Fleet Hangar being used for these two modules alone for just one type of race. Let's also not forget the m3 of Capital Nos, Neuts, Capital props, various non racial Doomsday types as well as every other various refit you'll need. Instead of giving the Molok some stupid gimmicky corpse bay half the damn thing and double the Fleet Hangar so we can use the ships versatility. I shouldn't have to fandangle and jumble around a limited fleet hangar for a ship that costs 3x the amount of a regular Titan and stare at a near empty coprse bay.

Aside from that loving the stats love the SMA size, the 4 turret DPS layout I would prefer an extra mid slot seeing as the Vanquisher already has the extra 8th low and a bigger increase to the raw Armor to make the Molok more of an incentive towards aquiring. So far everything else looks pretty dope. Twisted


What if it was meant so you had to make choices?



Please explain how you "make" choices when they are limited yet CCP gives you a ship that can fit multiple variants yet not have the space to DO so. Not to mention the SMA is larger than a standard Avatar so why wouldn't the Fleet Hangar be as well when the modules it carries and uses are massive when unpackaged?


The choice is which modules you carry. You have space for X modules but you have Y fitting options. Y > X mean you have to make a choice of what you bring and what you don't. If you want to bring 12 different mods but only have space for 10, then you build a list and make decisions.


As if I already don't have a list in the Avatar I currently own. Roll I am telling you that with the required additional modules for the Molok to carry it will NOT have sufficient space to do so. You also need a minimum of 5000 m3 of space for swapping so in actuality the m3 size is only really 95k m3.


If your Avatar already has a list, then I don't see why you have a problem having one for this one... It's literally the same principle applied to a new ship of the same class.
Michael Oskold
Beyond Good and Evil.
#47 - 2017-03-27 18:11:04 UTC
yeah the fax is pretty underwhelming. i dont see anything outside of meme nos, neut setups. doesnt tank as well as the other fax and the nos on a capital level doesnt matter tbh.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#48 - 2017-03-27 18:48:59 UTC
do we really want siege/triage ships being able to receive cap through nos
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2017-03-27 18:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
So after looking at the relative comparison to the Vanquisher the Molok feels a little underwhelming. I propose two crucial changes for the Molok to make it a competitive alternative:


1. The base Armor of the Molok needs to increase. You only have a 30.7% increase in raw armor compared to the Vanquishers 30.0%. Lackluster when the Avatar has always been considered the king of Armor Titans in regards to tank.

2. The Fleet Hangar size of the Molok needs to be increased by around 50k m3. Doing so will allow for the Molok to carry the various racial Doomsdays and Phenomenon Generators as well as carry the compliment of Faction Capital Nos and Neuts that make the bonuses for this Titan even worth considering. A failure to increase the Fleet Hangar will incur major headaches for groups who already have set requirements for their Avatar contingents and to be frank Titans in general need a Fleet Hangar increase in general for all the additional modules they now require to be used effectively.
Cade Windstalker
#50 - 2017-03-27 19:01:15 UTC
Any word on how these are going to be acquired and the costs?

Are they going to be in line with the cost of the Serpentis Caps?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#51 - 2017-03-27 19:18:03 UTC
jesus tara
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2017-03-27 19:30:11 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

I've sat for hours coming up with particular refits, modules, squeezing every last drop of space out of a fleet hangar on a regular Avatar.


Maybe you should go outside.

Tara Read wrote:

And I am telling you in it's current state with bonuses to capital nos and neuts (meaning you'd usually have two fitted two stored) you are going to incure an increase of (wait for it) 8000 m3 due to having two of each type of NOS and Nuet. An additional 10,000 m3 due to having two racial phenomena generators, and another 5000 m3 of space for needing to carry an additional racial Doomsday. Then you need an additional 5000 m3 of empty space to refit.

That is a total of 28000 additional m3 needed MINIMUM to have the Moloks capability to refit for its bonuses in a combat situation. Engage your damn brain.

Okay, and? It's got a 100,000 m^3 fleet hangar. I understand that you'd have a little less room for meme items such as exotic dancers.


I'm done arguing with the mentally challenged. I suggest you go to a neurologist and cure the reason why your neurons fire so slowly when it comes to daring to form an opinion about Capitals.


I mean, so far your argument has been "because this ship costs a lot, I should be able to carry every pair of tweezers and every jar of vaseline." The mental challenge appears to be yours.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#53 - 2017-03-27 19:37:33 UTC
have you considered storing your excess modules in a station or citadel
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2017-03-27 19:40:15 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
have you considered storing your excess modules in a station or citadel


Go back to flying frigates Trouser this doesn't concern you.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#55 - 2017-03-27 19:44:13 UTC
Live on forums dot eveonline dot com, the mental breakdown of a pilot who absolutely positively demands that a ship must be able to carry everything. "Why do ships have limited cargoholds at all?" the poster wails in between ragged, gasping breaths, interrupted by frequent wet sniffles. "I NEED to have shield rechargers in my cargo hold! I NEED IT!"

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#56 - 2017-03-27 20:00:09 UTC
From what I can tell his argument is thusly:

Why bother using a faction titan, when that faction titan can only fit the modules of one race of bonuses in its hull?

Effectively, you are saying 'here are the bonuses' but then negating that because the titan can only use one type of bonus without docking up to refit.

In essense, the extra DD bonuses are pointless.

Of course, it's still an advantage because the enemy won't know which DD you have fit until you fire it.

That being said, it does seem a bit pointless to have a ship which can only use one bonus at a time without docking. For the price, you might as well buy two titans with the same racial DD's, as you could just do the same effective thing with them.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2017-03-27 20:01:26 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
From what I can tell his argument is thusly:

Why bother using a faction titan, when that faction titan can only fit the modules of one race of bonuses in its hull?

Effectively, you are saying 'here are the bonuses' but then negating that because the titan can only use one type of bonus without docking up to refit.

In essense, the extra DD bonuses are pointless.

Of course, it's still an advantage because the enemy won't know which DD you have fit until you fire it.

That being said, it does seem a bit pointless to have a ship which can only use one bonus at a time without docking. For the price, you might as well buy two titans with the same racial DD's, as you could just do the same effective thing with them.


You can use both of them, you just have to sacrifice some of your cargo space to do it. Seems fine to me.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#58 - 2017-03-27 20:02:48 UTC
basically what I'm saying is the problem the faction titan faces is hilariously tiny compared to the faction FAX.

BTW I ran some numbers. The dogon has less of an effective local tank in both passive and active fit than the apostle.

Considering that is on a ship whose only defense is it's local tank, I call shenanigans.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2017-03-27 20:06:44 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
From what I can tell his argument is thusly:

Why bother using a faction titan, when that faction titan can only fit the modules of one race of bonuses in its hull?

Effectively, you are saying 'here are the bonuses' but then negating that because the titan can only use one type of bonus without docking up to refit.

In essense, the extra DD bonuses are pointless.

Of course, it's still an advantage because the enemy won't know which DD you have fit until you fire it.

That being said, it does seem a bit pointless to have a ship which can only use one bonus at a time without docking. For the price, you might as well buy two titans with the same racial DD's, as you could just do the same effective thing with them.


If you carry just that, it fit int he hangar. Of course, you are not carrying just that since there are other things you carry around even in Titans without that options. The point will be to choose if you bring the extra DD, how many different ones of them and what do you sacrifice to bring them. More options will bring your harder choices to make because the extras actually cost you some of the "basics".
IcyMidnight
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#60 - 2017-03-27 20:07:03 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
BTW, the games 1000 item stack limitation limits each to 1000 corpses... 2,000 m3 max


Two most important questions:
- How will we store more than 1000 corpses?!
- Will there be a nice red/black SKIN so that we can ditch that silly splatter paint? At least the Minmatar do it properly getting an even coating with the blood of the Amarr for their paint jobs!