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[MAY] Blood Raider Capitals

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MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#21 - 2017-03-27 15:46:51 UTC
Dreadnought: Chemosh
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 66,000 / 4,400,000s / 15
i've believed that some typo here, or does it mean it draining someone cap is a must??
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#22 - 2017-03-27 15:47:13 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Questions & Answers



Q)Whats with the low fitting attributes and weird fitting bonuses on the Dagon?
A) We've done this combination of low fitting attributes and fitting bonuses to Nos and Remote Reps to constrain some of the fitting options a available to the Dagon. We'd like to encourage Nos & Rep fits, and these bonuses do this. Its still possible to go for crazy fitting options but the trade offs are larger.

Q)Is the 30% bonus on the FAX vs 15% on the others is intended?
A) Yes, it is! The 30% bonus only applies to Nos's, not neuts. This is simmilar to the bonuses on the Rabisu.



You're not encouraging people to fit NOS and rep fits. You are FORCING them to. And even then, it doesn't tank as much as a pimp lif which costs WAY less.

You're still going to have to fit cap boosters and cap batteries.

The ship really won't tank any more than the apostle, because you haven't given it ANY, literally ANY local repping bonus. If you want to incentivise people to properly local tank on it, give it an armor rep bonus. At least then I could understand your decision. As it is, there really is no point to buying the thing. And you know me, if it was at all better than a normal FAX, I would seriously consider getting one.
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2017-03-27 15:48:05 UTC
Umino Iruka wrote:
So...2 turret hardpoints on the dread and a 25% capital energy turret dmg role bonus....


Oops, thats a typo. its 3 turret hardpoints.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#24 - 2017-03-27 15:57:23 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
@mr rive
Your math is off.
maxed skill the capital nos will get 2000 capacitor per 20 seconds. so its actually 100 cap/s


Yes but the Dagon gets a 150% bonus. My math is terrible, but either way, the nos cannot be used to run the remote reps at all reliably, given the cycle time bonus the Dagon gets.
Salvator Ambraelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2017-03-27 16:01:45 UTC
Inb4 Active Dagon
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2017-03-27 16:02:35 UTC
BTW, the games 1000 item stack limitation limits each to 1000 corpses... 2,000 m3 max
Creecher Virpio
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#27 - 2017-03-27 16:03:45 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
@mr rive
Your math is off.
maxed skill the capital nos will get 2000 capacitor per 20 seconds. so its actually 100 cap/s


Yes but the Dagon gets a 150% bonus. My math is terrible, but either way, the nos cannot be used to run the remote reps at all reliably, given the cycle time bonus the Dagon gets.




0 cap stability is nothing new to fax machines. You still have mid slots just like the apostle does, and you get the nos bonus
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2017-03-27 16:05:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ncc 1709
Creecher Virpio wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
@mr rive
Your math is off.
maxed skill the capital nos will get 2000 capacitor per 20 seconds. so its actually 100 cap/s


Yes but the Dagon gets a 150% bonus. My math is terrible, but either way, the nos cannot be used to run the remote reps at all reliably, given the cycle time bonus the Dagon gets.




0 cap stability is nothing new to fax machines. You still have mid slots just like the apostle does, and you get the nos bonus

the capital nos is 800 before the bonus, the bonus makes it 2000


its no where near enough to make up for its cost and its poor at everything that fax's do because the bonus isnt enough
Boombeczka
Say no more.
#29 - 2017-03-27 16:06:12 UTC
Q: how much are those will be expected to cost in mineral with current mineral prices?
Q: with assumption that those will be super expensive to build(like serpentis ones), are those going to have unique hull models or just a copies like vehement/vendetta/vanquisher?
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#30 - 2017-03-27 16:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Rive
Salvator Ambraelle wrote:
Inb4 Active Dagon


An active tank dagon is still going to barely tank any more than a lif or ninazu.

Look at it like this. Here is an apostle with 7 lowslots, tanked like a max local tank dagon:

[Apostle, Apostle fit]

Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Dark Blood Capital Armor Repairer
Dark Blood Capital Armor Repairer
Capital Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

Triage Module II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Capital Nanobot Accelerator II
Capital Nanobot Accelerator I
Capital Auxiliary Nano Pump II



With max links and drugs, this fit tanks 121k dps unheated. Ignore for a second this kind of fit is COMPLETELY UNUSABLE because of the amount of cap it needs to run. You would never fit an apostle like this.

Now bare in mind the apostle gets a 20% bonus to resist amount. Imagine that the Dagon would have a little better resists because it would most likely fit an A-type EANM in the 8th lowslot, to make up for the resist bonus the apostle gets. This means the Dagon will tank a LITTLE more (not much mind) than the apostle with the same fit.

This means the Dagon, with this kind of fit, will likely tank something like ~130k dps. It would have to rely on cap boosters AND nos in order to reliably remote rep people. The local tank it can maybe rely on just its nos, if it can fit 3.

You can EASILY get those numbers off a lif, for a fraction of the price. I'm not going to post the fit to make anyone's life easier. Look at the killboards.

Why anyone in their right mind would buy a FAX that tanks as much as a lif, even if you only fit the lif with low end mods compared to the dagon, when they do the same repping except the lif can do shield, is beyond me.

You can easily see the Dagon won't tank nearly enough to make it viable. It's just a very expensive, less versatile apostle.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#31 - 2017-03-27 16:19:44 UTC
Creecher Virpio wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
@mr rive
Your math is off.
maxed skill the capital nos will get 2000 capacitor per 20 seconds. so its actually 100 cap/s


Yes but the Dagon gets a 150% bonus. My math is terrible, but either way, the nos cannot be used to run the remote reps at all reliably, given the cycle time bonus the Dagon gets.




0 cap stability is nothing new to fax machines. You still have mid slots just like the apostle does, and you get the nos bonus


You're not getting it mate. The lif and ninazu have a bonus to cycle time like the dagon does. This makes their remote reps INCREDIBLY unstable. They NEED the cap booster bonus in order to make them at all viable. Without it, they would be unusable.

The NOS bonus in no way makes up the cap defecit the dagon will have with its cycle time bonus on remote reps. The cycle time on the NOS is too low, they NOS too little anyway, and they require FITTING to fit. This means you have to shunt other modules, like cap boosters and cap batteries, out of the way to fit them in the first place. The reduction in remote rep doesn't make up for this because it still has to fit the nos.

Think of it this way. An apostle generally fits 3 capital remote mods, if not four. If the dagon fitted 3 capital remote reps, then it needs at least 2 capital NOS in order to not instantly cap itself out. That means it has to fit boosters and cap batteries too, which completely remove any PG bonus it gets from remote reps. You're still going to run WAY out of powergrid before you can fit it solidly.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#32 - 2017-03-27 16:39:06 UTC
Considering that we're limited to 1k stacks per container / cargo system (including cargo holds), and corpses take up only 2m3 each, I'd like to suggest a new type of container: a Meat Locker or Cryopreservation Storage Container or some similar such name.

This container would be 2k m3 inside and out, but the only thing that could go inside of it are corpses. Additionally, the corpse bays of these ships would be able to accept these new containers.

That way, a person flying one of these ships could have an actual chance of filling their corpse hole with corpses, instead of sticking 1k corpses in them and having tens of thousands of m3 still sitting empty.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Biterno Sintaph
Reboot Required
#33 - 2017-03-27 16:47:09 UTC
In before this exchange in Arnon local:

Newbie > How do I kill Dagon?
Troll > With dreadnaughts
Blueberry cuddlemuffin
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2017-03-27 16:50:00 UTC
What is the temperature inside of the corpse bays? Can't have the corpses go bad
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#35 - 2017-03-27 16:53:25 UTC
Okay get this. I dare you to plug it into Pyfa Larrkin. Pretend this is a dogon with 2 capital energy NOS on. To replicate that I have put five on the apostle to simulate that bonus. The remote rep PG reduction would mean you could most likely fit 2-3 extra capital mods over the apostle, so with that in mind, I have added a third local repper, and two capital cap batteries:

[Apostle, Apostle fit]

Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Dark Blood Capital Armor Repairer
Dark Blood Capital Armor Repairer
Capital Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Dark Blood Capital Cap Battery
Dark Blood Capital Cap Battery
True Sansha Cap Recharger
True Sansha Cap Recharger

Triage Module II
True Sansha Capital Energy Nosferatu
True Sansha Capital Energy Nosferatu
True Sansha Capital Energy Nosferatu
True Sansha Capital Energy Nosferatu
True Sansha Capital Energy Nosferatu

Capital Nanobot Accelerator II
Capital Nanobot Accelerator I
Capital Auxiliary Nano Pump II


With links and strong exile, this fit is stable running its local reppers for 5 minutes and 9 seconds. The local reppers take up SIGNIFICANTLY less cap than remote reppers to run. I would imagine you MAY have 2 minutes worth of stability on 2 remote armor reps, if you fit it somewhat like this.

Basically, there is no way you can reliably use the NOS to keep your dagon cap stable. You still have to fit capital capacitor mods to stand a chance, and that's if you have enough powergrid. A triple rep fit puts it pretty much on par with a lif. Except the Lif has a bonus to cap booster amount, meaning its way more cap stable and doesn't have to NOS someone to BE cap stable.

So the TLDR is:

If someone fits at least one cap battery, you're screwed.
If you are having to continuously remote rep someone, you're screwed.
If someone shoots at you, you tank as much as a lif, except cost significantly more, meaning someone will dread bomb you for the kill and you will be screwed.




Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#36 - 2017-03-27 16:54:06 UTC
Please don't make the dread and fax too expensive to field in anything other than a guarantee survival drop - 30b price tags with a suicide button plus a large 'shoot me' arrow isn't looking promising for anyone to field in a decent fight.
commander aze
#37 - 2017-03-27 17:07:14 UTC
Will the AT victory skins from last year add these to the set?

Commander Aze For CSM XII

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=506400

Support the Community #Broadcast4Reps
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2017-03-27 17:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Since the Molok has the ability to fit both Doomsday's and Generators of both races those are going to be Massive in wasted m3 space for unpackaged for refitting on the fly. You are talking an extra 10000 m3 or 1/10th of the Moloks entire Fleet Hangar being used for these two modules alone for just one type of race. Let's also not forget the m3 of Capital Nos, Neuts, Capital props, various non racial Doomsday types as well as every other various refit you'll need. Instead of giving the Molok some stupid gimmicky corpse bay half the damn thing and double the Fleet Hangar so we can use the ships versatility. I shouldn't have to fandangle and jumble around a limited fleet hangar for a ship that costs 3x the amount of a regular Titan and stare at a near empty coprse bay.

Aside from that loving the stats love the SMA size, the 4 turret DPS layout I would prefer an extra mid slot seeing as the Vanquisher already has the extra 8th low and a bigger increase to the raw Armor to make the Molok more of an incentive towards aquiring. So far everything else looks pretty dope. Twisted
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2017-03-27 17:43:19 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Since the Molok has the ability to fit both Doomsday's and Generators of both races those are going to be Massive in wasted m3 space for unpackaged for refitting on the fly. You are talking an extra 10000 m3 or 1/10th of the Moloks entire Fleet Hangar being used for these two modules alone for just one type of race. Let's also not forget the m3 of Capital Nos, Neuts, Capital props, various non racial Doomsday types as well as every other various refit you'll need. Instead of giving the Molok some stupid gimmicky corpse bay half the damn thing and double the Fleet Hangar so we can use the ships versatility.


I love the "please buff the cargo capacity of the ship" crew, because they feel entitled to maximum tactical malleability for their ship. If you want more cargo, fit cargo expanders, or simply live with the fact that you might not be able to bring everything.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2017-03-27 17:44:46 UTC
also lol if you think the corpse bay was actually subtracted from the "points" available to this ship and that it exists as a bargaining chip for whatever you're trying to do

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.