These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#61 - 2017-03-26 15:23:37 UTC
Julianus Soter wrote:
History will judge those that stand beside those that killed the people in those freighters. I need not lift a finger.


History is subjective and entirely at the whims of the authors. You'll need to be the ultimate victor for history to be unified on what your vision for the cluster is.

As an aside, the loss of life is regretable. I hope the Federation and the State are able to resolve these issues to each side's satisfaction so we can focus on the real threat.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#62 - 2017-03-26 15:55:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Soter, I ask.

Are you travelling to the Inquest with the aim of resolving this crisis, or continuing your militia skirmishes?

Because we aim to resolve the crisis, and will work with any who seek to do so productively.

And yes, this includes you, provided you're willing to set aside your war for at least two weeks.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#63 - 2017-03-26 16:25:52 UTC
Salome Arran wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
I have prepared a simple diagram for this lecture.

I can think of a few scenarios where there wouldn't be survivors...


Yes, most of those scenarios that you outline, would relate to the points 1 and 2 that I made.

1. That the ship design is at fault, and does not have appropriate compartmentalisation, and such things as the blowout panels that you mention.
2. That the crew were so lax in their duties, as to leave the bulkhead doors between compartments all open.

Now, like you say, there is the possibility of deliberate action - welding blowout panels solidly to the ship and so on. Deliberate sabotage to compromise the ship structure.


Something smells funny here.

And it isn't the Quafe.

Though, Quafe does smell funny.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Julianus Soter
Blades of Liberty
#64 - 2017-03-26 16:40:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Julianus Soter
Makoto Priano wrote:
Soter, I ask.

Are you travelling to the Inquest with the aim of resolving this crisis, or continuing your militia skirmishes?

Because we aim to resolve the crisis, and will work with any who seek to do so productively.

And yes, this includes you, provided you're willing to set aside your war for at least two weeks.


I am willing to work with any who are on the side of justice, peace, and the basic human rights of self-determination. But we must remain vigilant against those that seem to be using this plague as a weapon to strike at the heart of New Eden's fragile peace. We may yet see the unleashing of a large-scale war and untold human suffering. This Kyonoke Plague has split the Caldari State. Soon, it may split the Cluster.

I am extremely frustrated with those "Caldari Loyalists" that seem to do nothing but praise their corporate leadership when things are going bad. I would like to see a few of them step up and demonstrate real courage by speaking out at this dangerous time.

Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#65 - 2017-03-26 16:48:27 UTC
Julianus Soter wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Soter, I ask.

Are you travelling to the Inquest with the aim of resolving this crisis, or continuing your militia skirmishes?

Because we aim to resolve the crisis, and will work with any who seek to do so productively.

And yes, this includes you, provided you're willing to set aside your war for at least two weeks.


I am willing to work with any who are on the side of justice, peace, and the basic human rights of self-determination. But we must remain vigilance against those that seem to be using this plague as a weapon to strike at the heart of New Eden's fragile peace. We may yet see the unleashing of a large-scale war and untold human suffering. This Kyonoke Plague has split the Caldari State. Soon, it may split the Cluster.

I am extremely frustrated with those "Caldari Loyalists" that seem to do nothing but praise their corporate leadership when things are going bad. I would like to see a few of them step up and demonstrate real courage by speaking out at this dangerous time.

Who are you even talking about?

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#66 - 2017-03-26 16:52:56 UTC
There are nationalists of every color, Soter. Whether Kim or Syagrius, we'd do best to ignore them so that the real work may proceed.

Insofar as denouncing or making bold statements, believe me when I say those of us most concerned about the Kyonoke crisis aren't going to lavish praise on the various Megacorporations who've stuck their head in the sand.

Now, you explicitly say 'who are on the side of justice, peace, and the basic human rights of self-determination.' All laudable things, but you and I both know these are intended as Federal dog-whistles.

I'll be forthright.

Soter, are you willing to work alongside Caldari, Amarr, and Matari just as you would Gallente? Are you willing to set aside the usual political bickering in search of productive, collaborative, multilateral work?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Julianus Soter
Blades of Liberty
#67 - 2017-03-26 16:53:38 UTC
*looks into his holocamera and sighs* Diana Kim? Perhaps the other people posting in the top ten articles here on the IGS? The past half decade of Caldari yes-man supporters?

Nevermind.

Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#68 - 2017-03-26 16:54:55 UTC
You should know perfectly well that we're all tired of Kim, and that Kim is not a sound basis for policy.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#69 - 2017-03-26 16:55:26 UTC
Julianus Soter wrote:
*looks into his holocamera and sighs* Diana Kim? Perhaps the other people posting in the top ten articles here on the IGS? The past half decade of Caldari yes-man supporters?

Nevermind.

So, Diana Kim.

When you figure out what else we've been telling you in that regard, for years, you may yet see where the issue lies.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Julianus Soter
Blades of Liberty
#70 - 2017-03-26 17:05:47 UTC
I criticize the Federal administration when warranted. Actually, I'm quite infamous for it. I don't really have the time to dig through the seven years or so of mindless IGS banter that has been hurled at me and my organizations from Caldari nationalists. It has happened, it is ridiculous, and it has generated some long-lasting frustration.

Regardless, all are of course welcome to attend the Villore Accords official embassy at the H4-RP4 event. We will not turn any away, and we are willing to listen to any rational or well reasoned arguments as we proceed in our continuing investigation of this crisis.

Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#71 - 2017-03-26 17:08:08 UTC
Exceedingly guarded talk, Soter.

A hand was extended. You did not take it.

Instead, you wish us to seek audience, in the hope you will deign to bless our efforts.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#72 - 2017-03-26 17:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
An addition, as it merits saying:

I will be forthright in saying to those observing that, yes, I have been blunt in denouncing Soter in the past. Indeed, I've done so with rather more vitriol than was necessary. The issue, I fear, is that just as Soter is irritated with Caldari speaking out against him, I have been irritated by Soter doing exactly what he does here, expecting obeisance and veneration when he is guilty of continual self-importance, and is continually insulting Caldari even when we attempt to offer olive branches.

Those watching know that I am no Kim. In the Liberal tradition, I am willing to work with anyone willing to forge a constructive relationship.

I invite you all to work with those of us who seek a collaborative solution to this crisis.

Many of us will be at H4-RP4. Many of us may be needed in space elsewhere.

Please, join the effort.

Winds be kind, the Cluster may very well depend on independent Capsuleers to get the job done, and it will take all we can do to resolve this successfully, against the headwinds of nationalism and Capsuleer psychosis.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Matar Ronin
#73 - 2017-03-26 17:26:27 UTC
Seems like Quafe corp operating in the Caldari State has new tech that even capsuleers do not have.

I do not know of any modules that are available to freighter pilots that would allow them to break tackle and make a run for the jump gate before being tackled again. The lumbering giants are not exactly nimble and quick.

So for ships that might have been smuggling things or people OUT of Caldari space why the need to blow them up when you could easily capture, board, and have proof to flaunt to the entire cluster?

The Caldari Navy and Caldari State are riddled with paranoid trigger happy maniacs who think every Gallente themed item is a directed attack against them. Honestly I am just surprised this does not happen more frequently. These guys are the gang who can't shoot straight, so why not rack up a few kills against freighters with your own citizens flying in it? They have no regard for life so sacrificing thousands to make a point is no big deal.

I guess their slimy alliance with the slavery cult is having some profound institutional impact on them after all. This is a stain on a Navy that has long been respected for it's effectiveness, now it's acting more like criminal pirates, truly a sad day for all who like me still have respect for the tenacious spirit of the Caldari people.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#74 - 2017-03-26 18:44:52 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
An addition, as it merits saying:

I will be forthright in saying to those observing that, yes, I have been blunt in denouncing Soter in the past. Indeed, I've done so with rather more vitriol than was necessary. The issue, I fear, is that just as Soter is irritated with Caldari speaking out against him, I have been irritated by Soter doing exactly what he does here, expecting obeisance and veneration when he is guilty of continual self-importance and is continually insulting Caldari even when we attempt to offer olive branches.
Olive branch? You offered him an insult in the form of an ultimatum, not an olive branch.

Makoto Priano wrote:
Those watching know that I am no Kim. In the Liberal tradition, I am willing to work with anyone willing to forge a constructive relationship.
No you’re not Ms. Kim, she is an honest advocacy, while you use duplicity and the illusion of cooperation to subvert. You claim you are willing to work with anyone… as long as they follow 'your' guidelines without question. That is very Caldari of you. "We want peace... as long as we get everything we want." I was neutral about your effort at first, but have come to understand that it is simply the latest effort by those loyal to the State use peace as a weapon.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Olga Drottning
Sunny Weather Mercenaries
The Initiative.
#75 - 2017-03-26 18:54:47 UTC
I second the call for a public denouncement of this attack, if not from the mouth of the corporations themselves than at least from the capsuleer organisations that support them.

Silence is as bad as support for this brutal, unwarranted assault on innocent vessels.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#76 - 2017-03-26 18:55:28 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Olive branch? You offered him an insult in the form of an ultimatum, not an olive branch.

....

No you’re not Ms. Kim, she is an honest advocacy, while you use duplicity and the illusion of cooperation to subvert. You claim you are willing to work with anyone… as long as they follow 'your' guidelines without question. That is very Caldari of you. "We want peace... as long as we get everything we want." I was neutral about your effort at first, but have come to understand that it is simply the latest effort by those loyal to the State use peace as a weapon.


These messages brought to you by yet another wholly impartial person with no overly-large, barbed, double-headed axes to grind at all.
Matar Ronin
#77 - 2017-03-26 19:02:10 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Olive branch? You offered him an insult in the form of an ultimatum, not an olive branch.

....

No you’re not Ms. Kim, she is an honest advocacy, while you use duplicity and the illusion of cooperation to subvert. You claim you are willing to work with anyone… as long as they follow 'your' guidelines without question. That is very Caldari of you. "We want peace... as long as we get everything we want." I was neutral about your effort at first, but have come to understand that it is simply the latest effort by those loyal to the State use peace as a weapon.


These messages brought to you by yet another wholly impartial person with no overly-large, barbed, double-headed axes to grind at all.

Pilot Jenneth apologists in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

You are the living embodiment of the old saying "People who don't stand for something, will fall for anything!"

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#78 - 2017-03-26 19:05:30 UTC
Let me clarify. By 'setting aside your war,' in Soter's case I mean his constant propagandizing, his haranguing of the State without consideration of the bigger picture. Nationalist politicking over thousands when millions are dead or dying and billions of lives may be at stake might perhaps be myopic.

I don't expect the mercenaries in Black Rise or Placid to stop blowing one another up. It's gone on for years. Why's a little thing like a plague going to stop them?

Still, the olive branch is the beginning of negotiations. It is the initial handshake that is followed by discussion, trading of favors and points, and ultimately collaborative effort.

Should I have started with bowing and scraping, Syagrius, while you and other nationalists insult us at every turn?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#79 - 2017-03-26 19:06:46 UTC
Olga Drottning wrote:
I second the call for a public denouncement of this attack, if not from the mouth of the corporations themselves than at least from the capsuleer organisations that support them.

Silence is as bad as support for this brutal, unwarranted assault on innocent vessels.


Ms. Drottning, you may have noticed pages of, "What the hell happened?!" from State loyalists and other parties in the opening pages of this discussion.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Olga Drottning
Sunny Weather Mercenaries
The Initiative.
#80 - 2017-03-26 19:14:32 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Olga Drottning wrote:
I second the call for a public denouncement of this attack, if not from the mouth of the corporations themselves than at least from the capsuleer organisations that support them.

Silence is as bad as support for this brutal, unwarranted assault on innocent vessels.


Ms. Drottning, you may have noticed pages of, "What the hell happened?!" from State loyalists and other parties in the opening pages of this discussion.


Ms. Priano, you may also have noticed the lack of any sort of apology, and largely any kind of acknowledgement of the human cost of this tragedy in those same pages.

This inordinate use of force can NOT be ignored. Although we should've expected the Caldari to escalate to full on ship to ship violence as they and their capsuleer supporters have proven wont to do in recent months.