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Missions & Complexes

 
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Anomic Agent

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Salvos Rhoska
#21 - 2017-03-23 16:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Agent 5B wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Agent 5B wrote:
I asked if people think that the NPC operate within the limitations of the ship they are meant to be.

They do not.

NPC stats do not match those of player ships, of SP/implants of the capsuleer or fit of the ship.


True but they don't call them after the name of the ship they call them Angel Superbanger or Centus God blobber or some other strange name but the anomics are named after a specific ship type and the agent says so in the mission brief. The assault frigates in anomic team do have the resists and speed relating to that of the assault frig they are meant to be. So some vague attempt at following the theme must have been made for those.


NPCs may have stats that somewhat mirror player ship performance, but they dont have SP/implant/fit or even ship restrictions.

Some follow a theme, but they are not player ships.
They are buffed so as to create a challenge by an AI, whereas the AI itself is stupid.

A chess program can beat human opponents, but EVE is so articulated and complex, that the AI is always the weakest link.

CCP compensate with stat buffs.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#22 - 2017-03-23 16:32:03 UTC
Burners are immune to damps I think also
Salvos Rhoska
#23 - 2017-03-23 16:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Agent 5B wrote:
Burners are immune to damps I think also


NPCs typically are immune to most player EWAR.
Even NOS doesnt affect their cap, albeit it does benefit you.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#24 - 2017-03-23 16:46:02 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


NPCs typically are immune to most player EWAR.
Even NOS doesnt affect their cap, albeit it does benefit you.


I'm not sure that is true , you can neut out an NPC and make it drop point and ECM does affect them
Buggs LeRoach
DHCOx
#25 - 2017-03-23 17:01:50 UTC
Agent 5B wrote:

Overheated AB doesn't go 2.8 k from 1.2

I didn't ask for help , I asked if people think that the NPC operate within the limitations of the ship they are meant to be.

Seeing as hundreds of people do them every day there should be plenty of people who know the answer.


snaked T2 AB fit daredevil overheats to 2.8 k , speed can be set to 1.2 manually ..

so the burner is not doing anything a player in the same ship couldn't do ..
Buggs LeRoach
DHCOx
#26 - 2017-03-23 17:08:21 UTC
Agent 5B wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


NPCs typically are immune to most player EWAR.
Even NOS doesnt affect their cap, albeit it does benefit you.


I'm not sure that is true , you can neut out an NPC and make it drop point and ECM does affect them


neuting just affects chance to repair , npc don't use cap to run weapons or modules . but if you neut an npc , who only has a 25% chance to point you every 5 seconds , sooner or later he'll drop point . easy to see why you would reach another wrong conclusion ..
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#27 - 2017-03-23 17:14:12 UTC
Buggs LeRoach wrote:
Agent 5B wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


NPCs typically are immune to most player EWAR.
Even NOS doesnt affect their cap, albeit it does benefit you.


I'm not sure that is true , you can neut out an NPC and make it drop point and ECM does affect them


neuting just affects chance to repair , npc don't use cap to run weapons or modules . but if you neut an npc , who only has a 25% chance to point you every 5 seconds , sooner or later he'll drop point . easy to see why you would reach another wrong conclusion ..


Yes NPC use a chance of repair and neuting to a lesser or greater extent might affect that but I am fairly sure rats point you for longer than 5 seconds more than 1 in 4 times.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#28 - 2017-03-24 05:52:51 UTC
Moved to Missions & Complexes.

ISD Decoy

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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#29 - 2017-03-24 07:40:38 UTC
the burners are based on player flown ships with faction/deadspace/officer level gear, pirate implants, gang boosters, and drugs.

that said they are npcs so in some ways they do cheat they seem to have some extra HP, tracking, speed, or whatever stat they need to present a challenge. I find this acceptable as it gives them some wiggle room for things that good pilots would do but is hard to program the AI to do. Also that little bit of cheating works since the burners have set loadouts and CCP gives pretty good info on them. not to mention players have pretty much completely solved them.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#30 - 2017-03-24 10:17:44 UTC
You know when you watch a movie and it says 'Inspired by a true event'?

It's kind of like that with burners.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Alasdan Helminthauge
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#31 - 2017-03-24 15:02:28 UTC
you mustn't have encountered some extreme pvp players flying some 30mil ships, but with 2bil in fittings, 5bil in implants and 3bil in offgrid boosters (they were removed after Ascension, but the burners weren't changed).
Cade Windstalker
#32 - 2017-03-24 15:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Agent 5B wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
If you actually want help or advice it's probably inadvisable to start throwing around pointless insults...

Those ships don't have 8 mids, and they're not dual prop fit, they just have stats roughly equivalent to an overheating Pirate Frig with Faction/Deadspace fittings and implants. They're designed to be hard to kill and be similar in challenge to a player, the advantage is you know what they're going to use based on the mission so you can fit to hard-counter them.


Overheated AB doesn't go 2.8 k from 1.2

I didn't ask for help , I asked if people think that the NPC operate within the limitations of the ship they are meant to be.

Seeing as hundreds of people do them every day there should be plenty of people who know the answer.


Of course they don't play entirely by player rules, they'd get wrecked. CCP has stated that the stats for these and similar NPCs are based on the stats of actual player ships. In this case they're similar to the stats you get if you were to be able to, essentially, overheat basically everything indefinitely with a ton of drugs, implants, and other fun on top of that.

They basically used an actual ship fitting as a basis and then adjusted things from there until it got to the point they wanted.

EDIT: Also, at least for speed, you can get the speed ratings all of those rats hit with an overheated prop mod and a combination of drugs, implants, and modules. I lack the time and the patience to bother to check if the rest of the stats are possible on the same hull, but at least in general all of those stats are fairly possible in general.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#33 - 2017-03-25 04:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
I played around a bit on Pyfa trying to re-create the specs on the burner ships using max skills and various implants. I had no trouble meeting or exceeding the offensive DPS or EHP stats. What I couldn't do was match the stats of the various support modules like webs and scrams - in particular their ranges (though their effectiveness levels matched up fine). Plus, on the Burner Cruor, I couldn't match the energy drain of the Neut. They also seem to run unlimited cap with massive recharge rates that can't be mirrored.

So, they definitely exceed what a human player could do in the same ship, but if they were held to those restrictions, they'd be too easy.
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#34 - 2017-03-25 18:09:04 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:


So, they definitely exceed what a human player could do in the same ship, but if they were held to those restrictions, they'd be too easy.



I managed to kill one on the test server. It was 3rd attempt maybe I can tweak my fit to make my losses less
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#35 - 2017-03-25 20:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Agent 5B wrote:
I managed to kill one on the test server. It was 3rd attempt maybe I can tweak my fit to make my losses less


There are plenty of great fits listed here in the forums that are extremely effective against all the burner missions - but there is a learning curve that entails some ship losses. However, once you figure them out, you'll almost never lose a ship again. But there is a really narrow range of fits and techniques that work efficiently.
Agent 5B
Venom and Bullet Corporation
#36 - 2017-03-25 22:25:09 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:


There are plenty of great fits listed here in the forums that are extremely effective against all the burner missions - but there is a learning curve that entails some ship losses. However, once you figure them out, you'll almost never lose a ship again. But there is a really narrow range of fits and techniques that work efficiently.


You mean https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6881776#post6881776 and https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=369477&find=unread
Buggs LeRoach
DHCOx
#37 - 2017-03-26 16:46:10 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
I played around a bit on Pyfa trying to re-create the specs on the burner ships using max skills and various implants. I had no trouble meeting or exceeding the offensive DPS or EHP stats. What I couldn't do was match the stats of the various support modules like webs and scrams - in particular their ranges (though their effectiveness levels matched up fine). Plus, on the Burner Cruor, I couldn't match the energy drain of the Neut. They also seem to run unlimited cap with massive recharge rates that can't be mirrored.

So, they definitely exceed what a human player could do in the same ship, but if they were held to those restrictions, they'd be too easy.


npc don't use cap to run weapons or modules . that can lead to some wrong conclusions , and is one way they truly 'cheat' .

a human-piloted cruor with 2 neuts easily exceeds the burner's drain , so within human stats .

burners are advertised to have fleet support in the form of max-skilled , mind-linked command ships , so consider that when evaluating their stats especially web / scram range which you mentioned .

the chruker's site is very useful : http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/inventory.php?group_id=818

thanks for your cap-stable fits , they're a nice alternative to some of the 'all-in' fits .










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