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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Operation Fresh Start: OLD Emergency Announcement

Author
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#21 - 2017-03-24 13:35:48 UTC
I've seen this type of stuff from Kim many years now but it just still always surprises me how stupid it all is.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#22 - 2017-03-24 19:07:10 UTC
Korsavius wrote:
I've seen this type of stuff from Kim many years now but it just still always surprises me how stupid it all is.

Ms. Kim, tells us however what she thinks, there seems no duplicity in her. She is persistent in her opinions, no matter how mistaken you or I think she is. If in nothing else, I can admire her for that.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#23 - 2017-03-24 19:14:29 UTC
I mean, you can.

That doesn't mean you should.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#24 - 2017-03-24 19:20:37 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
I mean, you can.

That doesn't mean you should.
True enough.

But I often find things I can admire about people I dislike. After all, it isn't personal, her dislike for 'us' is plural.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2017-03-24 19:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
The site is currently a means of egress for civilians. I worry that 'up-cannoning' would both provoke a response from Mordus Legion and Ishukone and invite orbital retribution from the Federal Navy, rather than protecting me from it.

Since I'm forbidden by treaty and regulation from having what the Federation would describe as 'Troops' and am only allowed to have such forces they would describe as 'Police' I feel that provoking a confrontation would be problematic. I am hoping to either house or evacuate almost a million Citizens through this site. That has to remain my priority and I must not do anything that would compromise my ability to achieve that goal.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#26 - 2017-03-24 19:44:46 UTC
Put simply, all it would do is draw in a dreadnought flotilla.

And that's IF the components could be shipped in. Which, they can't.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#27 - 2017-03-24 20:58:36 UTC
If... it were possible putting 'significant' military assets in civilian population centers in the current climate might well be unwise.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#28 - 2017-03-25 13:16:53 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The site is currently a means of egress for civilians. I worry that 'up-cannoning' would both provoke a response from Mordus Legion and Ishukone and invite orbital retribution from the Federal Navy, rather than protecting me from it.

Since I'm forbidden by treaty and regulation from having what the Federation would describe as 'Troops' and am only allowed to have such forces they would describe as 'Police' I feel that provoking a confrontation would be problematic. I am hoping to either house or evacuate almost a million Citizens through this site. That has to remain my priority and I must not do anything that would compromise my ability to achieve that goal.

Federation is dumb. Of course not as much as Korsavius, but still. You see, all our citizens are trained soldiers. You don't need to have 'Troops'. All you need to have is the ability to quickly mobilize personnel into troops. Have their uniform ready, have them sorted by ranks and platoons, have their weapons stashed. You press the button, ring the bell, and all your former civilians in next five minutes already wearing proper uniforms and wait orders at battle stations.

The Federation will never understand how this is possible. And for us... defending our homes is a duty for every citizen. Even those, who don't have military education, are still trained soldiers after three years of obligatory conscription.


Up-cannoning a structure can be done in secrecy as well. And I don't say you have to lie or do any dishonorable action - just don't show what are you doing. I think nobody should really object against a shield generator, since it is a defensive technology, but just in case it is better to keep it powered down before Gallente will begin bombardment and glassing.

With weapon systems it is a bit harder, but still do-able. NULL cannons can be camouflaged to communication towers, and ship turrets to defend perimeter could be just built into walls away from the sight. The moment Gallente try to storm the building, you press the button and your erection grows teeth. Of course you could make turrets and NULL cannons underground and just extend them upwards, this will work as well.

And don't forget about landmines!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#29 - 2017-03-25 13:34:26 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
The Federation will never understand how this is possible.

There are some member-states who operate the same way.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#30 - 2017-03-25 13:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Diana Kim wrote:
Up-cannoning a structure can be done in secrecy as well. And I don't say you have to lie or do any dishonorable action - just don't show what are you doing.


First: No, it can't—at least, not in any practical time-frame here. You have to get the materials you're going to up-cannon the structure with into system, undetected. Then you need to get them to the planet, then down to the facility, all without any of the normal customs inspections revealing 'hey, this looks like a dozen sets of 425mm railguns...'

Now, is it possible to do that? Sure! But is it possible to do that quickly? Not so much. Construction of turret emplacements takes time, and it's pretty obvious. Assembling the weapons systems takes time. Actually mounting the guns takes time. So if you want this to be done in a frame that's actually going to be at all effective or useful, you need to move fast, because the State and Federation may posture for another six months, or they could go to war tomorrow. No way to know how long you have.

And the faster you go, the less you can be secretive about it. Secrecy takes time. It means moving smaller chunks at a time, doing smaller steps at any given time, and taking the time to make what you're doing look like something else. And all of that ignores the more fundamental issue with your statement...

Second: 'I don't say you have to lie or do any dishonorable action'. Pieter's already agreed to work within the legal framework that governs the conditions and construction on Caldari Prime. If he goes trying to build weapons emplacements in secret, that's a violation of that legal framework. That means he's going back on his agreement to work within that—still in force and still binding—legal framework. He's breaking his word.

It's breaking your word dishonorable, Diana?

If you've said you're going to abide by certain rules, and then you sneak about trying to break those rules without getting caught, doesn't that make your claim that you'll abide the rules a lie?

You really need to stop pretending absolutely anything is just fine and dandy as long as it results in a higher likelihood of even one Federal citizen being hurt.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2017-03-25 19:15:56 UTC
If it was just me, hey - you pays your money and you takes your chances.

But with the destruction of those freighters this morning putting civilians on the board as targets I have a responsibility to those new Citizens to keep them safe. I gave my word. So long as I don't provide the FIO with a pretext, I should be able to escape their notice for now.

Again, if the Caldari Navy was parked in orbit and demanded control of the site to facilitate operations, it would be a different story. I'd give them the damn tower in return for ten rough-field transports that could expedite the extraction of my people.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-03-25 19:29:57 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If it was just me, hey - you pays your money and you takes your chances.

But with the destruction of those freighters this morning putting civilians on the board as targets I have a responsibility to those new Citizens to keep them safe. I gave my word. So long as I don't provide the FIO with a pretext, I should be able to escape their notice for now.

Again, if the Caldari Navy was parked in orbit and demanded control of the site to facilitate operations, it would be a different story. I'd give them the damn tower in return for ten rough-field transports that could expedite the extraction of my people.


What do your efforts need most at this moment? Outside of time, that is.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#33 - 2017-03-25 19:58:43 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Up-cannoning a structure can be done in secrecy as well. And I don't say you have to lie or do any dishonorable action - just don't show what are you doing.


First: No, it can't—at least, not in any practical time-frame here. You have to get the materials you're going to up-cannon the structure with into system, undetected. Then you need to get them to the planet, then down to the facility, all without any of the normal customs inspections revealing 'hey, this looks like a dozen sets of 425mm railguns...'

Now, is it possible to do that? Sure! But is it possible to do that quickly? Not so much. Construction of turret emplacements takes time, and it's pretty obvious. Assembling the weapons systems takes time. Actually mounting the guns takes time. So if you want this to be done in a frame that's actually going to be at all effective or useful, you need to move fast, because the State and Federation may posture for another six months, or they could go to war tomorrow. No way to know how long you have.

And the faster you go, the less you can be secretive about it. Secrecy takes time. It means moving smaller chunks at a time, doing smaller steps at any given time, and taking the time to make what you're doing look like something else. And all of that ignores the more fundamental issue with your statement...

Second: 'I don't say you have to lie or do any dishonorable action'. Pieter's already agreed to work within the legal framework that governs the conditions and construction on Caldari Prime. If he goes trying to build weapons emplacements in secret, that's a violation of that legal framework. That means he's going back on his agreement to work within that—still in force and still binding—legal framework. He's breaking his word.

It's breaking your word dishonorable, Diana?

If you've said you're going to abide by certain rules, and then you sneak about trying to break those rules without getting caught, doesn't that make your claim that you'll abide the rules a lie?

You really need to stop pretending absolutely anything is just fine and dandy as long as it results in a higher likelihood of even one Federal citizen being hurt.

Aside from all of this being completely correct, I would like to add that the moment any such additions became known, the arcology would last as long as it took a dreadnought squadron to hammer down its shields. Which would be a VERY short timeframe.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Sylvenia Juirian
Samrddhi ke Don Consortium
#34 - 2017-03-25 20:07:00 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If it was just me, hey - you pays your money and you takes your chances.

But with the destruction of those freighters this morning putting civilians on the board as targets I have a responsibility to those new Citizens to keep them safe. I gave my word. So long as I don't provide the FIO with a pretext, I should be able to escape their notice for now.

Again, if the Caldari Navy was parked in orbit and demanded control of the site to facilitate operations, it would be a different story. I'd give them the damn tower in return for ten rough-field transports that could expedite the extraction of my people.

A while ago, Pieter, I asked for a tour of your remarkable project.

Unfortunately, since that time, I've been rather preoccupied with issues in my constituency. I also find myself now breaking my resolve to never use this cesspit, to offer the following in the spirit of understanding and sympathy for this tragedy for the citizens under your care, as well as the personal loss...

An Obelisk, and every transatmospheric shuttle and cargo barge I can find, to aid in your evacuation. It's currently configured to house a great deal of passengers comfortably, as I've recently had the pleasure of ferrying a group of very excited individuals to new lives.

I'll be waiting to hear from you, sir.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#35 - 2017-03-26 02:37:22 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:
Aside from all of this being completely correct, I would like to add that the moment any such additions became known, the arcology would last as long as it took a dreadnought squadron to hammer down its shields. Which would be a VERY short timeframe.


Yup. Wyvern shield generator or not, a dozen Moros will blow right through it. The Wyvern's shield system isn't even all that strong, before deadspace and CONCORD modifications.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2017-03-26 04:04:39 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If it was just me, hey - you pays your money and you takes your chances.

But with the destruction of those freighters this morning putting civilians on the board as targets I have a responsibility to those new Citizens to keep them safe. I gave my word. So long as I don't provide the FIO with a pretext, I should be able to escape their notice for now.

Again, if the Caldari Navy was parked in orbit and demanded control of the site to facilitate operations, it would be a different story. I'd give them the damn tower in return for ten rough-field transports that could expedite the extraction of my people.


What do your efforts need most at this moment? Outside of time, that is.


Sleep?

Actually, what I really need is a good bunch of Sebbie Engineers who know about rough field landing operations. I could use three shifts of 'Pathfinders' to get shuttles and drop ships down and the same of Engineers who do good permafrost construction for landing zones.

I'm about to contact a sympathetic person who has an Obelisk that's apparently configured for passenger hauling. She sounds like she has way more lift capacity than I can handle on the ground at the moment. If you have people who can help change that, I would owe you and yours a significant favour, Edmund.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2017-03-26 04:05:30 UTC
Sylvenia Juirian wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If it was just me, hey - you pays your money and you takes your chances.

But with the destruction of those freighters this morning putting civilians on the board as targets I have a responsibility to those new Citizens to keep them safe. I gave my word. So long as I don't provide the FIO with a pretext, I should be able to escape their notice for now.

Again, if the Caldari Navy was parked in orbit and demanded control of the site to facilitate operations, it would be a different story. I'd give them the damn tower in return for ten rough-field transports that could expedite the extraction of my people.

A while ago, Pieter, I asked for a tour of your remarkable project.

Unfortunately, since that time, I've been rather preoccupied with issues in my constituency. I also find myself now breaking my resolve to never use this cesspit, to offer the following in the spirit of understanding and sympathy for this tragedy for the citizens under your care, as well as the personal loss...

An Obelisk, and every transatmospheric shuttle and cargo barge I can find, to aid in your evacuation. It's currently configured to house a great deal of passengers comfortably, as I've recently had the pleasure of ferrying a group of very excited individuals to new lives.

I'll be waiting to hear from you, sir.


I need to get some pieces in place - but I'll be in touch.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#38 - 2017-03-26 08:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Graelyn
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I'm about to contact a sympathetic person who has an Obelisk that's apparently configured for passenger hauling.


Why, Pieter...

You know I have the same resources. And a fellow corporate member, no less.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113

Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#39 - 2017-03-26 08:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
I think Ms Kim forgets a lot of the civillians are new citizens, and in no way have completed (or likely even started) mandatory training given how long this project has physically being going on for.

Pieter, I've been in Providence during its recent conflict with MC which has involved some awkward evacuation and resupply missions. We might have some useful lessons and experience to share.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#40 - 2017-03-26 12:31:01 UTC
Arrendis wrote:


Second: 'I don't say you have to lie or do any dishonorable action'. Pieter's already agreed to work within the legal framework that governs the conditions and construction on Caldari Prime. If he goes trying to build weapons emplacements in secret, that's a violation of that legal framework. That means he's going back on his agreement to work within that—still in force and still binding—legal framework. He's breaking his word.

It's breaking your word dishonorable, Diana?

If you've said you're going to abide by certain rules, and then you sneak about trying to break those rules without getting caught, doesn't that make your claim that you'll abide the rules a lie?

To break a word you shall give it. Do YOU know what exactly he did agree on? Maybe you can tell us with references what did he agree on? But before you do, keep in mind, if you will claim he has agreed to something that he didn't - it will be you, who will lose the honor.

Now, go ahead.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.