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Dev blog: Introducing Upwell Refineries

First post First post First post
Author
Lain Deudigren
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#141 - 2017-03-22 19:12:46 UTC
Any comment on the mass purchase of Hypersynaptic Fibers after the CSM summit.

Something you want to investigate CCP?
Linkoman
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#142 - 2017-03-22 19:16:28 UTC
love all the 1337 pee-vee-pee tears from this. Hell if someone needs to actually work for their money.
Pestilen Ratte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2017-03-22 19:22:00 UTC
The key to this new system generating content is that it must be relatively easy to ninja loot the ore fields of weak moon mining operations.

If folks living out in null sec, good hard working pirates and the like, can't get in and steal themselves some good moon ore, well the system is broken. There will be no content and the whole thing will be just another inflationary nerf. If the pirates can steal the ore, well then the moon miners just got RAPED as well as nerfed. I mean, they will be out of business. If they are paying for ice to fuel the mining module and then pirates steal all their good ore and wreck a few barges for lols......

Game over, man. Game over.

And so that cant happen and so it wont be possible to steal moon goo effectively because null bears.

Once again, the wizards of CCP have set up a game mechanic that is vulnerable to blobs and extraordinarily time consuming, in return for no actual improvement in the actual game, as it stands.

They have literally unveiled mining as the great new game play mechanic. The names of the asteroids have been changed.

You wot?

You have had years of meetings. Thousands of man hours.

So that you all could rebrand the SAME MINING MECHANIC and pass it off as the next big thing.

Does anyone at CCP do any work at all anymore?
DragonHelm III
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2017-03-22 19:32:35 UTC
Sounds good.

Would be nice if you could add the NPC Mining fleets to them as well. NPCs need that good goo and would create a hazard to the unwary Twisted
Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2017-03-22 19:41:26 UTC
I for one support this change. Making moon mining impossible for anyone except massive alliances will help fill goon coffers
Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
#146 - 2017-03-22 19:43:21 UTC
these changes sound fantastic.
like, gocompare level fantastic.
Miles Tullius Eldard
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2017-03-22 19:51:43 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Make these structures like a movable ships you can anchor and call them Mooncrackers.


So you mean a RORQUAL?
Gunner
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#148 - 2017-03-22 19:58:07 UTC
Isn't it very likely many low end moons will not see any refinery in orbit as long as they live?

One isn't going through all this trouble for Carbides, or moon goo prices must skyrocket in general.

I guess all inventors will have to find a mining job lol.
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
DARKNESS.
#149 - 2017-03-22 20:02:04 UTC
My initial thoughts on these proposed changes are that it penalises small, specialised corporations and alliances whilst simultaneously making a lot easier for the larger alliances with support networks, either rental alliances or diversified memberships. More money going to the select few which exacerbates the problems in Eve.

My corporation has a modest moon mining operation. It pays the bills and limited SRP for our members. We are not rich to begin with and, being specialised as PvP, make less per month than your average incursion runner makes in a day. Similarly, our Alliance isn't big. like us it's specialised along PvP lines. We don't have copious amounts of Titans, our R64s pay for a modest SRP programme to help everyone enjoy doing what they do.

We now need to diversify and find miners. Miners aren't going to mine for nothing so our already modest income is going to take a significant hit. It means we become less attractive for players than larger alliances whose income will barely be affected with this proposed change. If lots of small, independant alliances go under and all Eve is left with is large power blocs, then the game stagnates which not only does that undermine what the new sov attempted to achieve but how is it possibly going to be healthy for the game.

I understand what you're trying to achieve here and I'm fully onboard with having more people in space, it's what the game's desperately needed for years now, but that has to be balanced against the harm you're going to do to those who don't want to be part of major power blocs. You need to find some way to shift the balance of income so it's spread out more evenly across a more diverse player base rather than trying to force square pegs into round holes.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.

walker260
New Eden Regimental Navy
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
#150 - 2017-03-22 20:03:57 UTC
I love the new ideas on the structures! Awesome. But One thing that I think should be discussed is the ability for these refining structures to use the "Excavator" drones like the Rorqual can. Mediums can use 5. Large scan use 10?? This sounds like a good idea to me. Then whoever is in control of the structure during mining ops can actually mine too! And would help cover these large amounts of moon mining that will need done! ( with the same Siege mode Yield as Rorqual too)
Leo Augustus
Rolex Classic
#151 - 2017-03-22 20:05:41 UTC
That moon goo would have to be astronomically lucrative to bother trying to steal it. Think like vital core deposit x 5.

Mining is not fun. It's what you do to get started in the game and if it's your thing, you skill into a Rorq.

I do have to give credit for Rorqs and excavators. A fine example of making a living wage available to the dedicated single account miner.

Now put him at a set place at a set time... fun fun.

You can't escape isk per hour. Going 22 jumps for a prospect full of ore aint gonna happen and everyone is going to have more than enough mining that has to be done in their own systems to bother fleeting to someone else's to mine.

I want to play on my main account! Yeah, I'll sub a few alts for cynos or trade, but multibox mining, multi-box indy, multi-box anything really is not fun. You do it because you have to.

Just let me collect my moon stuffs from my pos's (or new cit-thingie) on my main so when I hear there's a fight going on, I dock, reship, and go. I can talk in alliance and people know who the hell I am. Why the need for three accounts to run 30 reactions when one account can now?

Why open up reacting to every Tom, ****, and Harry who can buy a bpo? It just adds another step to the t2 process.. react mats, build components, build ships instead of just starting from building components. This is fun? To what end? The moon guy had a role to play in his alliance, like the FC, the indy director, etc.. now we're all gonna be miners :(

This does not stop the rich from getting richer. Massive multibox fleets of alts that don't care about their killboards will mine these rocks relatively undefended and the ship losses added to a spreadsheet and accounted for in the sell price. Cost of doing business.

Everyone go to Jita and fire your mining lasers at the monument. NO MORE MINING

demolitiona
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2017-03-22 20:08:46 UTC
Lots... and lost of questions.


Are there going to be new or special modules for mining the moon rocks that come out of the station?
What kind of boosts or changes are going to be organically applied to the mining ships?
Are there going to be new skills that miners are going to have to train to mine such moon ore?
Is there going to be a ship specifically for moon mining?
Can this moon ore be compressed? Refined by ninja miners?
What kind of general effect is expected on the price of moon material when this takes place?

I have more, but I'm still trying to shake the nervousness surrounding the kinds of wars that will result when you pull the POS's out and make them unable to moon mine.

Is there a transition that will take place with these?
How do you plan to control this transition effectively without upsetting all of the moon mining networks currently in place?

Gunner
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#153 - 2017-03-22 20:23:25 UTC
Oh, I almost forgot.......can Alpha clones be part of all this sweetness?
Sar'Duakar
Ghetto Sultans
#154 - 2017-03-22 20:23:48 UTC
If all the current miner's are busy mining the regular stuff. Veldspar, Scordite etc, who the hell is going to mine the new moon goo?

I'll be damned if i am giving up what little time I have to pvp, to now mine to line someone else's pockets.

12 Years of playing, I make my isk through reaction's. Sometimes moon mining.
Your now telling me I have to recruit X amount of people into my corp, to mine, to line my own pockets to fund my pvp?
And thats after I've invested maybe billions(?) into a Citadel that by the end of the week could be blown up by the big aliance next door, purley for *****, giggles and KB stats?


That will go down like a ton of bricks.

Was any consideration to the little guy given in this "idea"??
Centurax
T A L O N
#155 - 2017-03-22 20:29:22 UTC
Moon Drilling/Mining in Wormholes and even High Sec please, that would be really amazing for the game new content for all is what we are looking for.

Even if the materials are restricted in High Sec to what are currently R8, R16 and Gases I don't see that necessary breaking the market seeing as someone has to mine it unlike the current press start and wait..

WHs are prefect for this type of mining, also more content for everyone, and I don't just mean the miners Blink .


mkint
#156 - 2017-03-22 20:48:33 UTC
Hooray, even stricter dividing lines between the mega-alliance-null-stagnation and the 90%-of-the-playerbase! Exactly what this game needed! The barriers of entry to go from difficult to impossible! awesome!

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Lunarstorm95
Godless Horizon.
#157 - 2017-03-22 20:53:31 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
My initial thoughts on these proposed changes are that it penalises small, specialised corporations and alliances whilst simultaneously making a lot easier for the larger alliances with support networks, either rental alliances or diversified memberships. More money going to the select few which exacerbates the problems in Eve.

My corporation has a modest moon mining operation. It pays the bills and limited SRP for our members. We are not rich to begin with and, being specialised as PvP, make less per month than your average incursion runner makes in a day. Similarly, our Alliance isn't big. like us it's specialised along PvP lines. We don't have copious amounts of Titans, our R64s pay for a modest SRP programme to help everyone enjoy doing what they do.

We now need to diversify and find miners. Miners aren't going to mine for nothing so our already modest income is going to take a significant hit. It means we become less attractive for players than larger alliances whose income will barely be affected with this proposed change. If lots of small, independant alliances go under and all Eve is left with is large power blocs, then the game stagnates which not only does that undermine what the new sov attempted to achieve but how is it possibly going to be healthy for the game.

I understand what you're trying to achieve here and I'm fully onboard with having more people in space, it's what the game's desperately needed for years now, but that has to be balanced against the harm you're going to do to those who don't want to be part of major power blocs. You need to find some way to shift the balance of income so it's spread out more evenly across a more diverse player base rather than trying to force square pegs into round holes.


My point exactly, but its downed out by the random 3 man groups who now are super excited about grabbing there 1 money moon, while med sized alliance die over funding because we cant chuck 3/4 of our member base into mining fleets.

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.” ― Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." ― Confucius 

Lunarstorm95
Godless Horizon.
#158 - 2017-03-22 20:54:54 UTC
Disregard

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.” ― Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." ― Confucius 

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#159 - 2017-03-22 20:57:45 UTC
mkint wrote:
Hooray, even stricter dividing lines between the mega-alliance-null-stagnation and the 90%-of-the-playerbase! Exactly what this game needed! The barriers of entry to go from difficult to impossible! awesome!


So the large number of moons being freed up because of a need for active mining is somehow going to make "stagnation" worse?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Ryder 'ook
Morb's Import Export
#160 - 2017-03-22 21:00:47 UTC
When I read about these changes, a couple of thoughts crossed my mind.

Might it be prudent to actually befriend a few of those looked-down-upon carebears from highsec and talk them into moon mining operations while actually actively protecting them during said operations?

Could it be possible that the walls of contempt between the different playstyles will start to crumble? A little bit at least?
Respect a miner? If only because he ensures your continued SRP?


All of this will make sense only if CCP reshuffles and slightly adjusts the material compositions between different regions and moons, of course. That way, given the fact that many many moons will become ripe for harvest every day, they can't all be blobbed and blocked but there will be a fuckton of emergent gameplay flowing from it. In many regions. All the time.
Sounds good, doesn't it? Don't wanna mine? - Protect a miner!

It could all tank horribly. But it could also be a pretty cool thing.

Personally, I'm looking forward to it. Change is good!

Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.