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Alphas and F2P Have Failed
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Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#481 - 2017-03-22 00:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
Louise Verger wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I don't think alpha accounts have anything to do with it. There's an impression amongst some gamers that the older players are entrenched and nobody could "catch up" to them... I obviously don't believe this but that's the prevailing impression. I think CCP should speed up training for lower SP accounts. Something like <10 mil SP gets you an 10x multiplier. 10-30mil SP = 8x training multiplier, etc...

I'm just over 200 mil SP. I actually wish skills weren't even a thing. 'If you can buy it you can fly it' is my attitude.


top lel kek!
learn a skill that may be very useful to you: PATIENCE Cool


Patience? This is not a question of patience. The game is simply hostile to new players. Being a pushover for months is anything but fun. What is the point of wasting a few month only to begin actually paly this game while there are others with interesting content for new players? One have to be quite a masochist to enjoy the beginning of one's career in EVE. No wonder most newcomers choose to leave.


players with 200mil SP started from 0 --> they are still here
i started from 0, 2 years ago --> i'm still here
people that i know that started recently --> are still here

or are we all masochist! could be Cool
or we know how to create our own content and losers that leave the game at the start need to learn it as well and HTFU or leave ^^


patience my little pawadan! have patience and the world will be yours Blink

edit: instant gratification games are... ---------->>>>>>>>>>> that way Cool
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#482 - 2017-03-22 03:34:44 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Louise Verger wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I don't think alpha accounts have anything to do with it. There's an impression amongst some gamers that the older players are entrenched and nobody could "catch up" to them... I obviously don't believe this but that's the prevailing impression. I think CCP should speed up training for lower SP accounts. Something like <10 mil SP gets you an 10x multiplier. 10-30mil SP = 8x training multiplier, etc...

I'm just over 200 mil SP. I actually wish skills weren't even a thing. 'If you can buy it you can fly it' is my attitude.


top lel kek!
learn a skill that may be very useful to you: PATIENCE Cool


Patience? This is not a question of patience. The game is simply hostile to new players. Being a pushover for months is anything but fun. What is the point of wasting a few month only to begin actually paly this game while there are others with interesting content for new players? One have to be quite a masochist to enjoy the beginning of one's career in EVE. No wonder most newcomers choose to leave.


players with 200mil SP started from 0 --> they are still here
i started from 0, 2 years ago --> i'm still here
people that i know that started recently --> are still here

or are we all masochist! could be Cool
or we know how to create our own content and losers that leave the game at the start need to learn it as well and HTFU or leave ^^


patience my little pawadan! have patience and the world will be yours Blink

edit: instant gratification games are... ---------->>>>>>>>>>> that way Cool


Nah who cares? Patience smachents; it's not a virtue. It's an artificial barrier. I guarantee you if you remove the limits of "skills" as a concept, EvE will get a lot more interesting really fast. An interesting and limitless EvE is what will attract new players. That said, I'm obviously going to gank the hell out of their overpriced coffins, but learning will be occurring as I do. EvE should be more about the decisions you make, less about "time".

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#483 - 2017-03-22 04:35:05 UTC
Louise Verger wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I don't think alpha accounts have anything to do with it. There's an impression amongst some gamers that the older players are entrenched and nobody could "catch up" to them... I obviously don't believe this but that's the prevailing impression. I think CCP should speed up training for lower SP accounts. Something like <10 mil SP gets you an 10x multiplier. 10-30mil SP = 8x training multiplier, etc...

I'm just over 200 mil SP. I actually wish skills weren't even a thing. 'If you can buy it you can fly it' is my attitude.


top lel kek!
learn a skill that may be very useful to you: PATIENCE Cool


Patience? This is not a question of patience. The game is simply hostile to new players. Being a pushover for months is anything but fun. What is the point of wasting a few month only to begin actually paly this game while there are others with interesting content for new players? One have to be quite a masochist to enjoy the beginning of one's career in EVE. No wonder most newcomers choose to leave.


*sigh*

You know you can work with others right? Even a multi-year veteran will die to players with much less time in game.

Having more SP, having more ISK, etc. is not an "I win" button.

If you go in with Karmafleet, TEST, EVE Uni, Brave, Pandemic Horde, etc. you can get right into the thick of the fight. All of those groups welcome new players and will help them out.

The worst thing you can do is try to go it alone, IMO. Unless you are willing to unwind your credit card you are going to have some major obstacles that a group of friends can help you with.

When you are new playing with others is key. When you are a bitter vet...playing with others is key. I just switched alliance.corp after 8 years because my old corp/alliance largely went into hibernation. To obtain content I decided to join a corp that is active.

Now you can ignore all this...but well, whatever.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Louise Verger
Alsouette Haven
#484 - 2017-03-22 08:51:51 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:

players with 200mil SP started from 0 --> they are still here
i started from 0, 2 years ago --> i'm still here
people that i know that started recently --> are still here

or are we all masochist! could be Cool
or we know how to create our own content and losers that leave the game at the start need to learn it as well and HTFU or leave ^^

patience my little pawadan! have patience and the world will be yours Blink

edit: instant gratification games are... ---------->>>>>>>>>>> that way Cool


Even If you achieved something playing this game for two years it does not justify such arrogance. Somehow I don't feel inferior, not at all. It night have not occurred to you but people you call 'losers' do not vanish, it's just they have got better things to do.

Quote:
If you go in with Karmafleet, TEST, EVE Uni, Brave, Pandemic Horde, etc. you can get right into the thick of the fight. All of those groups welcome new players and will help them out.


PvP in EVE is a bit of a joke. I haven't seen another game where PvP is less dependent on skill. It is like 90% money and 9% luck. Besides, it's just boring. There is not much PvP apart from gank and I'm not interested in it.
It's funny you suggested to join one of those corps. Although they are not as despicable as CODE. but still mostly scumbags and i'd rather stay away from that lot.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#485 - 2017-03-22 08:54:15 UTC
Louise Verger wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:

players with 200mil SP started from 0 --> they are still here
i started from 0, 2 years ago --> i'm still here
people that i know that started recently --> are still here

or are we all masochist! could be Cool
or we know how to create our own content and losers that leave the game at the start need to learn it as well and HTFU or leave ^^

patience my little pawadan! have patience and the world will be yours Blink

edit: instant gratification games are... ---------->>>>>>>>>>> that way Cool


Even If you achieved something playing this game for two years it does not justify such arrogance. Somehow I don't feel inferior, not at all. It night have not occurred to you but people you call 'losers' do not vanish, it's just they have got better things to do.

Quote:
If you go in with Karmafleet, TEST, EVE Uni, Brave, Pandemic Horde, etc. you can get right into the thick of the fight. All of those groups welcome new players and will help them out.


PvP in EVE is a bit of a joke. I haven't seen another game where PvP is less dependent on skill. It is like 90% money and 9% luck. Besides, it's just boring. There is not much PvP apart from gank and I'm not interested in it.
It's funny you suggested to join one of those corps. Although they are not as despicable as CODE. but still mostly scumbags and i'd rather stay away from that lot.


Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#486 - 2017-03-22 09:11:57 UTC
Louise Verger wrote:

Patience? This is not a question of patience. The game is simply hostile to new players. Being a pushover for months is anything but fun. What is the point of wasting a few month only to begin actually paly this game while there are others with interesting content for new players? One have to be quite a masochist to enjoy the beginning of one's career in EVE. No wonder most newcomers choose to leave.


Yes and no. Yes, when you get into a ship, undock and fly somewhere in low-sec, null-sec or Wormholes you will get shot down sooner or later. EVE is very hostile, I would even say the most hostile game I know. But this is not a new player thing, I would say at least 90% of EVE's players die if they just undock and leave the safety of highsec or their corp’s/alliance’s space solo. PVP in EVE is about being very sneaky or slippery when solo, forming fleets and gangs, planning, luring into traps, flying hard counter fits and any other advantage you can think of. It’s NOT for everyone and is was never meant to be.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#487 - 2017-03-22 09:15:41 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:


* Remove all the current skill and module restrictions from Alphas save one: reduced skill training time.



unristricted alphas would drive all paying clients to alphas, sooner or later it doesn't matter, no cash flow to CCP = dead CCP

Arthur Aihaken wrote:


* Limit Alphas to high-sec only. No venturing into low-sec, null-sec or wormhole space.



so split the community in half, those that pay in low and null those that don't in high, when you know well splitting a community is the last thing you want to do.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:


* Move L4 agents, Incursions and ice belts to low-sec. I was vehemently opposed to these ideas originally, but have gradually warmed to the concept (even though it means my own style of play will have to adapt and evolve). In combination with banning the transit and operatipn of supers, this might actually largely fix low-sec.



another community splitting move, sub up and join the blocks or stay in high sec.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:


* Extend a Premium Insurance option to Omegas to cover T2, T3 and Faction ship hulls and ease the transition to low-sec.



yup ease the transition to low sec by banning all new players who aren't subbed yet, oh hang on thats never going to work.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:


* Introduce a new Implant Extractor for Aurum that can only be utilized by Omega characters (use extracts all implants in a clone or corpse).



harvest implants,, hmmm not a bad idea that CCP went over before and never released.

you do know this is just another EVE is dying thread yea?
das licht
Leremblompes Minerals
#488 - 2017-03-22 12:32:21 UTC
Is this the EVE-Graveyard here? Shocked
Isengrimus
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#489 - 2017-03-22 12:57:50 UTC
Interesting that the OP happily ignores the fact that, comparing to the same time last year, we had 6k characters more online in the recent weekend that there were in the corresponding weekend a year ago. 6k characters is around 15% increase - this is not negligible.

All of the proposed ideas are terrible, for the reasons elaborated above.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#490 - 2017-03-22 14:10:13 UTC
Isengrimus wrote:
Interesting that the OP happily ignores the fact that, comparing to the same time last year, we had 6k characters more online in the recent weekend that there were in the corresponding weekend a year ago. 6k characters is around 15% increase - this is not negligible.

All of the proposed ideas are terrible, for the reasons elaborated above.


As someone else pointed out though unfortunately it hasn't reversed or even stabilised the trend, just delayed it a bit.
v3locity
Spatial Distortion Inc
#491 - 2017-03-22 14:14:43 UTC
lilol' me wrote:
[quote=Arthur Aihaken]
The fact that old alliances have control of everything and always will. Until CCP gives the same opportunities to every new player then nothing will change. There is no way for example that a new person or group will ever get that r64 moon ever. There is no way they will get 0.0 space unless they rent it and pay billions. Eve is controlled by the big entities now.

I honestly believe eve needs another or a few new instances because of this. Some will disagree but I strongly believe it needs it, to give others a chance of the same things.

Recruitment is impossible now, there are literally hundreds of corps recruiting for a small amount of people. which usually go to the big alliances again. Theres a pattern here..... Everything for the new person is consumed by the old of which they can never have. So whats the point playing...


This is the game. The entitled, as in this post. Rent space in null, umm no. On and on.

The game is over. Big alliances are entrenched and carebearing it out.

Thank you drive thru.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#492 - 2017-03-22 20:29:02 UTC
So lets unpack this. Folks could try Eve for free previously with all sorts of promotions where you could get a 30 day trial. They tried it and very much like a cupcake frosted with liverwurst decided Eve was not for them. So CCP makes it so you play play a slightly crippled version of Eve for free but for longer and the liver cake still seems to be unpopular. Who would have guessed!

Could it be that there is a limited number of people that like their cupcakes combined with their liver based lunch items? That might be where an answer can be found.

So what would make that mythical Eve that matches the player base of other games like WoW have achieved? I'd argue you couldn't still have "Eve" and be WoW. What would you have to change in Eve to get WEvE? (WoW/Eve)

- Dumb it down. I would have to be a lot more simple.
- Add more rinse and repeat PVE
- Make it "easier" to relate to. Understanding that you are your ship and not some sort of Elf wandering around a Forrest seems to be a leap too far for the simpler minds.
- remove any actual risk.
- get rid of all elements that allow "immoral" activities like scamming or ganking. You know all the stuff that makes Eve what Eve is.
- add lots of pointless bling! Give your characters "unique" hats and silly clothes.
- add pets because of the puppies and bunnies!
- make things in the game that sort of map to the real world. Let you bake a holiday pie, collect Christmas presents or something Halloween themed!
- make PvP consensual


So basically remove everything that makes Eve special.

Another thing I find interesting about Eve is it is true that the game has reached the point where a lot of low hanging fruit is gone. Big alliances have sowed up a lot of the valuable stuff in Eve. But I think you have to view that as forcing you to adapt. The game gets harder the longer you stay in it which is good. I does mean you learn new approaches and look for new opportunities. Doing the same thing will not always produce the same results. I think that is not such a bad thing. Those other games can keep their elves and holiday baking!
Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#493 - 2017-03-22 21:10:21 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:


Another thing I find interesting about Eve is it is true that the game has reached the point where a lot of low hanging fruit is gone. Big alliances have sowed up a lot of the valuable stuff in Eve. But I think you have to view that as forcing you to adapt. The game gets harder the longer you stay in it which is good. I does mean you learn new approaches and look for new opportunities. Doing the same thing will not always produce the same results. I think that is not such a bad thing. Those other games can keep their elves and holiday baking!


Just a point on this... Eve was already mature in 2008 when I played before recently returning. People had already staked claims out in Null and controlled large chunks of space.

But the alliances controlling space have changed. BOB doesn't control half of Null anymore for example.

Yeah... it might take 5 years to build up an alliance to the point you can evict and take over space from one of the holders now... but they did the same thing to Evict the people who had it before. It's not fast... but it is possible still I think.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#494 - 2017-03-22 22:10:25 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:

- add pets because of the puppies and bunnies


Pets?!?! Puppies and bunnies?!?!? In space?!?!?!

Okay, I'm convinced.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#495 - 2017-03-22 22:38:01 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
So lets unpack this. Folks could try Eve for free previously with all sorts of promotions where you could get a 30 day trial. They tried it and very much like a cupcake frosted with liverwurst decided Eve was not for them. So CCP makes it so you play play a slightly crippled version of Eve for free but for longer and the liver cake still seems to be unpopular. Who would have guessed!

Could it be that there is a limited number of people that like their cupcakes combined with their liver based lunch items? That might be where an answer can be found.

So what would make that mythical Eve that matches the player base of other games like WoW have achieved? I'd argue you couldn't still have "Eve" and be WoW. What would you have to change in Eve to get WEvE? (WoW/Eve)

- Dumb it down. I would have to be a lot more simple.
- Add more rinse and repeat PVE
- Make it "easier" to relate to. Understanding that you are your ship and not some sort of Elf wandering around a Forrest seems to be a leap too far for the simpler minds.
- remove any actual risk.
- get rid of all elements that allow "immoral" activities like scamming or ganking. You know all the stuff that makes Eve what Eve is.
- add lots of pointless bling! Give your characters "unique" hats and silly clothes.
- add pets because of the puppies and bunnies!
- make things in the game that sort of map to the real world. Let you bake a holiday pie, collect Christmas presents or something Halloween themed!
- make PvP consensual


So basically remove everything that makes Eve special.

Another thing I find interesting about Eve is it is true that the game has reached the point where a lot of low hanging fruit is gone. Big alliances have sowed up a lot of the valuable stuff in Eve. But I think you have to view that as forcing you to adapt. The game gets harder the longer you stay in it which is good. I does mean you learn new approaches and look for new opportunities. Doing the same thing will not always produce the same results. I think that is not such a bad thing. Those other games can keep their elves and holiday baking!


First part is on the money IMO Eve has already picked up most of the people that are likely to suit its gameplay but I don't think it impossible to broaden its appeal without taking away what makes Eve, Eve though it might offend the most hardcore purists.

A structured progress (a more streamlined version of the old certificates) for the skills and modules for a player's first frigate and through to a T2 weapons, mostly T2 modules fit and core competency for a cruiser would go a long way. Likewise canned 2-4 player PVE arcs with a structure to push randoms to working together and 1-2 similar opportunities for likewise in PVP - I'll expand on it sometime I'm not typing on a tablet that has decided to run super slow :s
Clint Iskwood
Doomheim
#496 - 2017-03-23 00:32:40 UTC
Lets translate that

- Dumb it down. I would have to be a lot more simple.
Buy sps and presto ,why wait, the grind? Play fast and hard, get bored and look for other titles.

- Add more rinse and repeat PVE -
Sounds like average life in null.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o0Vv8lr41w

- Make it "easier" to relate to. Understanding that you are your ship and not some sort of Elf wandering around a Forrest seems to be a leap too far for the simpler minds.
There has to be a tutorial for everything

- remove any actual risk.
No more clone grades and sp loss , t2 ships can be insured like T1s, and now this plex wallet. Losing sps used to be a great motivator, a wake up call. Sadly, it will be missed.

- get rid of all elements that allow "immoral" activities like scamming or ganking. You know all the stuff that makes Eve what Eve is.
Safety button First!!!

- add lots of pointless bling! Give your characters "unique" hats and silly clothes.
I had hopes for incarna to turn into in-station bare knuckle boxing fights..... never happened. Ofc if Jenna Haze subscribes to Eve we could end up with Porncarna. There will be some serious Wishful thinking on this one

- add pets because of the puppies and bunnies!
Plenty of those already

- make things in the game that sort of map to the real world. Let you bake a holiday pie, collect Christmas presents or something Halloween themed!
Or play space microbiologist?!

- make PvP consensual
[bWe start by throwing colourful fireworks to each other, and if we like it, we finally get to duel!!![/b]


As you might have guessed already, alpha state is the least problem in the game.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#497 - 2017-03-23 00:49:02 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

- add pets because of the puppies and bunnies


Pets?!?! Puppies and bunnies?!?!? In space?!?!?!

Okay, I'm convinced.


let me have a space goat and i'm sold.
bonus points if it has a tiny little jetpack and one of those cheesy fishbowl helmets and I can use them as drones (that don't do damage, just bump harmlessly and adorably into ships) like a drone version of the festival launchers.
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#498 - 2017-03-23 02:26:53 UTC
Alpha Free-Fire Zone

A constellation combining certain characteristics of High and Null Security. For lack of a better descriptor it can be Hybrid Null-Sec.
Only Corvettes(Rookie ships) and Pods can activate the stargates connecting to this constellation. No other ships are allowed.
All pilots can jump into this constellation but any Omega Pilot is stripped of his or her Omega status. In effect all pilots are Alpha pilots while located here.
No cynos.
No bombs.
No bubbles.
No structures of any kind that can't be carried in the cargo hold of a corvette.
No compression in the NPC Stations.
No refining in the NPC Stations.
No industry in the NPC Stations.(no building the ships you can't gate in.)
No wormholes.
No gate guns.
No stations guns.
No Concord.
No Crimewatch.(therefore no Sec loss for ship or pod destruction)
10-12 Null Sec type asteroid belts per system.(but no mercoxit) Instead of scores of big asteroids there should be hundreds of tiny asteroids. No asteroid should have a volume greater than half the volume of a corvette cargo hold. Belts should be not less than 100km across. Filling a cargo hold should involve having to travel from one asteroid to another.
Base level asteroids only. No +5% or +10% asteroids.
Belt rats and combat anomalies scaled for combat with Corvettes.
Systems colored yellow: one station belonging to the appropriate school.
System colored red: 12 stations; one for each school.
I desperately want bubbles in the central(red colored) system. The only bubble usable by a corvette would be the Small Mobile Warp Disruptor, volume 65 m3. To make that happen CCP would have to allow Alphas to train Anchoring to Lv 2. Absent this the central red colored system would have to be omitted.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#499 - 2017-03-23 05:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bjorn Tyrson
Dornier Pfeil wrote:
Alpha Free-Fire Zone

A constellation combining certain characteristics of High and Null Security. For lack of a better descriptor it can be Hybrid Null-Sec.
Only Corvettes(Rookie ships) and Pods can activate the stargates connecting to this constellation. No other ships are allowed.
All pilots can jump into this constellation but any Omega Pilot is stripped of his or her Omega status. In effect all pilots are Alpha pilots while located here.
No cynos.
No bombs.
No bubbles.
No structures of any kind that can't be carried in the cargo hold of a corvette.
No compression in the NPC Stations.
No refining in the NPC Stations.
No industry in the NPC Stations.(no building the ships you can't gate in.)
No wormholes.
No gate guns.
No stations guns.
No Concord.
No Crimewatch.(therefore no Sec loss for ship or pod destruction)
10-12 Null Sec type asteroid belts per system.(but no mercoxit) Instead of scores of big asteroids there should be hundreds of tiny asteroids. No asteroid should have a volume greater than half the volume of a corvette cargo hold. Belts should be not less than 100km across. Filling a cargo hold should involve having to travel from one asteroid to another.
Base level asteroids only. No +5% or +10% asteroids.
Belt rats and combat anomalies scaled for combat with Corvettes.
Systems colored yellow: one station belonging to the appropriate school.
System colored red: 12 stations; one for each school.
I desperately want bubbles in the central(red colored) system. The only bubble usable by a corvette would be the Small Mobile Warp Disruptor, volume 65 m3. To make that happen CCP would have to allow Alphas to train Anchoring to Lv 2. Absent this the central red colored system would have to be omitted.


So frigate wormholes but worse in every single way
das licht
Leremblompes Minerals
#500 - 2017-03-23 05:57:28 UTC
Game over soon, maybe within 2 years, get over it!
Depends if someone else wants to ride a dead horse…
Anyways, EVE lasted vey long for a game and life has more to offer!