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BREAKING: Ishukone CEO Derided At CEP Session
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Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#201 - 2017-03-17 14:32:02 UTC
If you're using a knife and your target saw you coming, you did it wrong.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#202 - 2017-03-17 14:34:27 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
If you're using a knife and your target saw you coming, you did it wrong.

Pretty much.

Even in close quarters like Elmunds describing, you're often better off keeping your main weapon up and ready. Unless you're literally in physical contact with an enemy without warning, you'll win the exchange.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#203 - 2017-03-17 14:45:45 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
If you're using a knife and your target saw you coming, you did it wrong.

Pretty much.

Even in close quarters like Elmunds describing, you're often better off keeping your main weapon up and ready. Unless you're literally in physical contact with an enemy without warning, you'll win the exchange.

We had these kinds of encounters more frequently than I cared for in the military, the normal response was to have the point man sidestep, go for cover and open up on any targets behind the lead while the next guy in your squad dealt with the enemy's point.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#204 - 2017-03-17 15:08:17 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
If you're using a knife and your target saw you coming, you did it wrong.

Pretty much.

Even in close quarters like Elmunds describing, you're often better off keeping your main weapon up and ready. Unless you're literally in physical contact with an enemy without warning, you'll win the exchange.

We had these kinds of encounters more frequently than I cared for in the military, the normal response was to have the point man sidestep, go for cover and open up on any targets behind the lead while the next guy in your squad dealt with the enemy's point.

Not the worst method I've ever heard. How long were you in?
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#205 - 2017-03-17 15:42:35 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
If you're using a knife and your target saw you coming, you did it wrong.

Pretty much.

Even in close quarters like Elmunds describing, you're often better off keeping your main weapon up and ready. Unless you're literally in physical contact with an enemy without warning, you'll win the exchange.

We had these kinds of encounters more frequently than I cared for in the military, the normal response was to have the point man sidestep, go for cover and open up on any targets behind the lead while the next guy in your squad dealt with the enemy's point.

Not the worst method I've ever heard. How long were you in?

5 wonderful years as a combat engineer and EOD tech.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#206 - 2017-03-18 07:25:28 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
There are a few styles of combat in which it is all too possible for both sides to lose at the same time - I think knife fighting is the one where this is most likely. It is far too easy for both sides to puncture each other during the initial contact and hit something vital - often it's a matter of luck.

The best time to use a knife on someone is from behind when they're unaware you're even coming.

I'd probably have pushed for longer blades, myself. Something where positioning and form becomes a factor, rather than sheer hyperactive fury and spite.

Even a rookie can kill from behind.

Most skilled and honorable warriors of the Raata period could draw the sword and cut their opponents staying in front of them even before they would touch their own swords.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#207 - 2017-03-18 07:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
There are a few styles of combat in which it is all too possible for both sides to lose at the same time - I think knife fighting is the one where this is most likely. It is far too easy for both sides to puncture each other during the initial contact and hit something vital - often it's a matter of luck.

The best time to use a knife on someone is from behind when they're unaware you're even coming.

I'd probably have pushed for longer blades, myself. Something where positioning and form becomes a factor, rather than sheer hyperactive fury and spite.

Even a rookie can kill from behind.

Most skilled and honorable warriors of the Raata period could draw the sword and cut their opponents staying in front of them even before they would touch their own swords.


Well, I wasn't a skilled or honourable warrior, Diana. I was a peace officer. Protecting the Citizens and upholding public order was a far higher priority in my training than dying with honour. Sorry to be a disappointment.

Unless we're talking about taistoiitsu, of course.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#208 - 2017-03-18 07:39:07 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
There are a few styles of combat in which it is all too possible for both sides to lose at the same time - I think knife fighting is the one where this is most likely. It is far too easy for both sides to puncture each other during the initial contact and hit something vital - often it's a matter of luck.

The best time to use a knife on someone is from behind when they're unaware you're even coming.

I'd probably have pushed for longer blades, myself. Something where positioning and form becomes a factor, rather than sheer hyperactive fury and spite.

Even a rookie can kill from behind.

Most skilled and honorable warriors of the Raata period could draw the sword and cut their opponents staying in front of them even before they would touch their own swords.


Well, I wasn't a skilled or honourable warrior, Diana. I was a peace officer. Protecting the Citizens and upholding public order was a far higher priority in my training than dying with honour. Sorry to be a disappointment.

Unless we're talking about taistoiitsu, of course.

I never heard for police officers to sneak behind with knives. But the ability to sudden draw a stun baton and whack a petty criminal before they would even touch their knife, or whatever else they had - it could be quite handy!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#209 - 2017-03-18 07:52:40 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
There are a few styles of combat in which it is all too possible for both sides to lose at the same time - I think knife fighting is the one where this is most likely. It is far too easy for both sides to puncture each other during the initial contact and hit something vital - often it's a matter of luck.

The best time to use a knife on someone is from behind when they're unaware you're even coming.

I'd probably have pushed for longer blades, myself. Something where positioning and form becomes a factor, rather than sheer hyperactive fury and spite.

Even a rookie can kill from behind.

Most skilled and honorable warriors of the Raata period could draw the sword and cut their opponents staying in front of them even before they would touch their own swords.


Well, I wasn't a skilled or honourable warrior, Diana. I was a peace officer. Protecting the Citizens and upholding public order was a far higher priority in my training than dying with honour. Sorry to be a disappointment.

Unless we're talking about taistoiitsu, of course.

I never heard for police officers to sneak behind with knives. But the ability to sudden draw a stun baton and whack a petty criminal before they would even touch their knife, or whatever else they had - it could be quite handy!


I think that's why we had the taistoiitsu training, actually. Sick sticks and being fast with them. Bakukykuu or First Strike training.

But if the opportunity arose to take out a criminal with a swift blow to the back of the head, we were taught not to hold back out of some sense of 'fair play'.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#210 - 2017-03-20 08:11:11 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I think that's why we had the taistoiitsu training, actually. Sick sticks and being fast with them. Bakukykuu or First Strike training.

But if the opportunity arose to take out a criminal with a swift blow to the back of the head, we were taught not to hold back out of some sense of 'fair play'.

It is still fair play. If they are so incompetent to allow being approached from behind and knocked out like greenhorn rookies, then go at it. It will be just their fault and lack of proper training.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#211 - 2017-03-20 08:14:58 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

It is still fair play. If they are so incompetent to allow being approached from behind and knocked out like greenhorn rookies, then go at it. It will be just their fault and lack of proper training.

Note to self: next time challenge Ms. Kim to a match with broader rules. A stealth environment, maybe?
Jev North
Doomheim
#212 - 2017-03-20 09:48:42 UTC
Do you really feel this apparent trading black for red has been a trade up?

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#213 - 2017-03-20 14:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Jev North wrote:
Do you really feel this apparent trading black for red has been a trade up?


Wait what? Jev, first of all, that was at least half a joke. Secondly, did you notice the longknife I've been carrying around for, like, a year? Yes it's symbolic, but it's not just for show.

You get that I'm nominally a member of an old Achur monk clan, right? And the Praefecta's bodyguard as well as her aide? Maybe all this seems silly to you, but it does serve a purpose.

A few, even.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#214 - 2017-03-20 15:41:11 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I think that's why we had the taistoiitsu training, actually. Sick sticks and being fast with them. Bakukykuu or First Strike training.

But if the opportunity arose to take out a criminal with a swift blow to the back of the head, we were taught not to hold back out of some sense of 'fair play'.

It is still fair play. If they are so incompetent to allow being approached from behind and knocked out like greenhorn rookies, then go at it. It will be just their fault and lack of proper training.

I prefer the training I got. Win. Your opponent brings a sword? Shoot them. They bring a gun? Bring friends with guns. You find yourself in the unfortunate situation of bare handed fight? There is no such thing as a dirty move in a fight. Only one rule: survive.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Jev North
Doomheim
#215 - 2017-03-20 17:53:53 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
... did you notice the longknife I've been carrying around for, like, a year? Yes it's symbolic, but it's not just for show.

You get that I'm nominally a member of an old Achur monk clan, right? And the Praefecta's bodyguard as well as her aide? Maybe all this seems silly to you, but it does serve a purpose.

I did, and I do. It's honest curiosity. I was trying to reconcile your apparent glee at the thought of stalking and slaying Kim with your holy terror at the Black in the other thread. Very flattering description, by the way, and I mean not just of us -- although some of the mates made noises about adopting parts of it into our public alliance statement.

Of course, I guess
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Wait what? Jev, first of all, that was at least half a joke.
would explain at least half of it.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#216 - 2017-03-20 19:10:31 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I think that's why we had the taistoiitsu training, actually. Sick sticks and being fast with them. Bakukykuu or First Strike training.

But if the opportunity arose to take out a criminal with a swift blow to the back of the head, we were taught not to hold back out of some sense of 'fair play'.

It is still fair play. If they are so incompetent to allow being approached from behind and knocked out like greenhorn rookies, then go at it. It will be just their fault and lack of proper training.

I prefer the training I got. Win. Your opponent brings a sword? Shoot them. They bring a gun? Bring friends with guns. You find yourself in the unfortunate situation of bare handed fight? There is no such thing as a dirty move in a fight. Only one rule: survive.

While this all is true, and I would do the same. But when I give my WORD that I will come to duel with sword, I still can bring any amount of friends and weapons, but I will fight alone and with sword only. Because the honor is more valuable than the life.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#217 - 2017-03-20 19:14:08 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I think that's why we had the taistoiitsu training, actually. Sick sticks and being fast with them. Bakukykuu or First Strike training.

But if the opportunity arose to take out a criminal with a swift blow to the back of the head, we were taught not to hold back out of some sense of 'fair play'.

It is still fair play. If they are so incompetent to allow being approached from behind and knocked out like greenhorn rookies, then go at it. It will be just their fault and lack of proper training.

I prefer the training I got. Win. Your opponent brings a sword? Shoot them. They bring a gun? Bring friends with guns. You find yourself in the unfortunate situation of bare handed fight? There is no such thing as a dirty move in a fight. Only one rule: survive.

While this all is true, and I would do the same. But when I give my WORD that I will come to duel with sword, I still can bring any amount of friends and weapons, but I will fight alone and with sword only. Because the honor is more valuable than the life.

I have never had the pleasure of being challenged to a duel. In the event I was, I'd decline.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#218 - 2017-03-20 19:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Jev North wrote:
It's honest curiosity. I was trying to reconcile your apparent glee at the thought of stalking and slaying Kim with your holy terror at the Black in the other thread.

Uh ... so, it's a little awkward to say, Jev, but, basically, it wouldn't be such a problem if I didn't enjoy it so much.

Quote:
Very flattering description, by the way, and I mean not just of us -- although some of the mates made noises about adopting parts of it into our public alliance statement.

I can't completely tell whether you're being sarcastic, but, if it was something you appreciated, I'm glad. I try not to say things about PY-RE that my fellow Falcons would think was unfair or untrue.

That's maybe broader for us than for some outfits. Our own brass called us "kill-crazy," so....
Jev North
Doomheim
#219 - 2017-03-20 22:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jev North
I was shooting for some jovial needling at worst, and I apologize unreservedly if I came across as sarcastic; I blame my grim mood lately. Despite currrenty ideological differences, I think I can fairly say I and the rest of the old crowd really do think back fondly on you and your time with us.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#220 - 2017-03-21 00:08:57 UTC
Jev North wrote:
I was shooting for some jovial needling at worst, and I apologize unreservedly if I came across as sarcastic; I blame my grim mood lately. Despite currrenty ideological differences, I think I can fairly say I and the rest of the old crowd really do think back fondly on you and your time with us.


Hee, well, I'm not sure it's ideology, so much. It's not like I've turned into Lord Consort Newelle or anything. It's not like I think badly of you all, either.

It's not about morality, exactly. It's not about judgment at all.

... it's mostly about the kind of path I want to leave through this world. See, my predecessor, self-consciously monstrous though she was, was really pretty deeply afraid of a lot of stuff. The idea of being judged by humanity and condemned to destruction scared her, but, it's not the only thing that did. She hated losing. She hated risk. She was a Falcon pilot, and it suited her: being the key participant who would turn a dangerous engagement into an assured win.

You remember how I am. I'm the Kestrel that grabs onto the Svipul and hangs on for dear life. I'm the one who always wants to try our luck, to find some strategem, to find a way. I suffered a couple expensive losses because I was too slow to withdraw, seeing just a challenge where others saw an unwinnable fight.

I'm not so worried about becoming my predecessor anymore. That doesn't make me un-worried, though.

Veiki always struck me, from the first, as a vision of myself through a black mirror. But what if, one day, in some dream, Veiki were to look in such a mirror, and what she saw staring back, was me?