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[Kyonoke] Contagion Tracking, Containment, Planning
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Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#221 - 2017-03-16 16:26:53 UTC
Or Death, in this case.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#222 - 2017-03-16 16:38:39 UTC
With a fancifully large scythe, unfortunately.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#223 - 2017-03-16 16:57:22 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
What vexes me most about it is this.

The senators were recorded speaking in private, and winds know we've all said impolite things about others in private. This is no surprise. Instead, it's a leak from someone (Blaque? Ishanoya? Oiritsuu?) who knew the Caldari delegation was looking for an excuse to leave, having hopefully placated shareholders by attending a summit in the first place, however briefly.

Sigh.

Well, while politicians and CEOs are grandstanding, life carries on.


My sentiments exactly.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#224 - 2017-03-16 21:47:26 UTC
Second index post updated with the latest.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#225 - 2017-03-19 23:01:05 UTC
And another update.

Mostly, we're at the 'ceaseless politicking' phase of this crisis.

Fortunately, we do have confirmation of Ishukone and Zainou presence at the upcoming inquest to be hosted by the Society, which is very much welcome. The Arataka Research Consortium will have representation from essentially all of its component and associated organizations, with approximately twenty independent capsuleers of diverse origin on site.

We'll see what the Society has in store for us.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#226 - 2017-03-20 06:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Makoto Priano wrote:
And another update.

Mostly, we're at the 'ceaseless politicking' phase of this crisis.

Fortunately, we do have confirmation of Ishukone and Zainou presence at the upcoming inquest to be hosted by the Society, which is very much welcome. The Arataka Research Consortium will have representation from essentially all of its component and associated organizations, with approximately twenty independent capsuleers of diverse origin on site.

We'll see what the Society has in store for us.


As long as there are no new cases outside quarantine, there's time for such things. As soon as there's a new case, there'll be a scramble, then investigations and blame and more politics (probably blaming the politics)-- until the next quarantine breach.

Maybe at some point we'll get past the point where anyone really cares. I kind of hope not. People love their politics enough that getting to that point means we've gone somewhere pretty dark.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#227 - 2017-03-20 07:00:09 UTC
Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?

I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk?
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#228 - 2017-03-20 07:16:12 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?

I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk?


Because only one site can really be 'glassed' and even that one makes that a huge risk.

Muttokon II Orbital Platform: Pop that sucker and you may be raining the speck down on the populated planet below.
The city of Myrska in Oijanen: "Glassing" it may very well breach containment and spread it across the planet.
SoCT station in Aridia: Only part of the station is affected apparently, glassing will almost certainly spread it. Contaminated debris might float off and set off a new event elsewhere later.
Mining Platform in Federation space: See Orbital Platform and SoCT station.

Containment until safer disposal is possible is the best option for now. Worst case scenarios, the three spaceborne facilities can be towed into a star or something... and if the contagion spreads on the planet in Oijanen...

... well, glassing may very well prove to be the only choice, but with the staggering ability that spec has shown for survival even that would be a very tall order.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#229 - 2017-03-20 07:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?

I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk?


Simple answer? Ruin and rubble falling from the sky, loaded with plague.

The "basic" form of the Kyonoke speck (a term I increasingly think doesn't mean any specific object so much as either type of Kyonoke pathogen) is basically a prion.

Conventional prions, like those that destroy the brains of cannibals, can survive being in tissue that's set on fire. They don't have to be kept in survivable conditions; they're not alive. They're just objects, protein structures, so they make extremophile bacteria look amateurish. Even ordinary microorganisms can survive being tossed into space and falling back, as long as they're someplace a little protected.

And in the case of Kyonoke, if that speck finds a host, you have the original problem all over again. Only, worse, because you won't find out about it for months-- when the host falls ill, and the dying starts all over again.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2017-03-20 13:21:49 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Having only half followed this news so far. My big question is... why haven't we just glassed the affected areas yet?

I mean sure holding out for a cure is nice and all. But frankly it's unlikely, and the longer we wait to act the greater the chance of a breach. Anyone who might still be alive is as good as dead already. Why string them along with false hope and put more lives at risk?


Simple answer? Ruin and rubble falling from the sky, loaded with plague.

The "basic" form of the Kyonoke speck (a term I increasingly think doesn't mean any specific object so much as either type of Kyonoke pathogen) is basically a prion.

Conventional prions, like those that destroy the brains of cannibals, can survive being in tissue that's set on fire. They don't have to be kept in survivable conditions; they're not alive. They're just objects, protein structures, so they make extremophile bacteria look amateurish. Even ordinary microorganisms can survive being tossed into space and falling back, as long as they're someplace a little protected.

And in the case of Kyonoke, if that speck finds a host, you have the original problem all over again. Only, worse, because you won't find out about it for months-- when the host falls ill, and the dying starts all over again.


I think you may have under estimated rhe extent of sterilization I was suggesting.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#231 - 2017-03-20 14:02:14 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
I think you may have under estimated rhe extent of sterilization I was suggesting.


Oh, gods and spirits.

Mr. Tyrson, the weapons we use do not actually normally vaporize everything within a matter of kilometers. They break stuff up really efficiently, but there's not a lot out there that doesn't leave wreckage. Even the active defense superweapon the Drifters use doesn't vaporize the ship.

Consider that a chunk doesn't have to be very big at all to play host to something bad, and that in every case we currently have the target is some kind of fair-sized space or planetary facility, and....

Let's just say it's not a good option. Permanent entombment and/or towing into the nearest star is more likely to be a reliable solution.
Olga Drottning
Sunny Weather Mercenaries
The Initiative.
#232 - 2017-03-20 14:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Olga Drottning
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Permanent entombment and/or towing into the nearest star is more likely to be a reliable solution.


Definitely the correct answer. I guess you could say it's a stellar solution.

Now if only the State had towed the original Pit into Taisy, rather than researching a bioweapon...
Aradina Varren
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#233 - 2017-03-20 14:48:11 UTC
When dealing with an unknown disease, destroying it is the least useful option, especially considering that if it was present in the Pit, chances are it's present elsewhere. Studying it was the best choice they could have made, and it clearly lead to an effective containment method being developed.

As for your conspiracy, others have already addressed just how little sense that makes. If the State had developed a bioweapon with Kyonoke, one of its first uses probably wouldn't be on a populated Caldari planet.

Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2017-03-20 14:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bjorn Tyrson
well I'll take all your word on that. I aint a scientist so all that prion/protein **** doesn't mean much to me. thanks for answering my question though. now I got some orbital bombardment crystals I need to return.
Olga Drottning
Sunny Weather Mercenaries
The Initiative.
#235 - 2017-03-20 15:04:11 UTC
Aradina Varren wrote:
If the State had developed a bioweapon with Kyonoke, one of its first uses probably wouldn't be on a populated Caldari planet.


If they'd have destroyed it in the first place then it wouldn't have been there to steal for use against a Caldari planet. You can't honestly believe that it was preserved to research for anything other than military purposes.

The argument that it probably exists elsewhere and therefore a cure was required is tired and done. It's not been found anywhere else in the cluster to date. If by some astronomical chance it is, there are plenty more stars to tow these things into.

But now the cat's out of the bag anyway. We can destroy the sources we know about, but then some unknown actor still has it - And because of that, New Eden should know that the State is ultimately at fault for not destroying the pathogen when it was contained.
Aradina Varren
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#236 - 2017-03-20 15:17:50 UTC
Olga Drottning wrote:

If they'd have destroyed it in the first place then it wouldn't have been there to steal for use against a Caldari planet. You can't honestly believe that it was preserved to research for anything other than military purposes.


It says a lot about you that you don't even consider the possibility that something might be done for the good of other people.

Olga Drottning wrote:

The argument that it probably exists elsewhere and therefore a cure was required is tired and done. It's not been found anywhere else in the cluster to date. If by some astronomical chance it is, there are plenty more stars to tow these things into.


That's ridiculously short sighted. The chances of Kyonoke existing in only one location are tiny.

Olga Drottning wrote:

But now the cat's out of the bag anyway. We can destroy the sources we know about, but then some unknown actor still has it - And because of that, New Eden should know that the State is ultimately at fault for not destroying the pathogen when it was contained.


Great plan. Let's destroy something that could yield valuable research because we're afraid! Those scientist types are in over their heads, wanting "tests" and other such silly things. Thinking about "the future", whatever that means(Probably means the future of bioweapons.). Why don't they understand that all problems can be solved via explosives.

Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#237 - 2017-03-20 15:58:29 UTC
The issue, so far as I see it, is that at the time cordon and containment were the best strategies: efficient, effective, and not risking complete contamination of the Taisy system, which was a non-zero chance given the nature of towing a large asteroid that's been riddled with mining activity and hadn't been sealed at the time of initial outbreak.

In any case, it's all well and good that our compatriots are so very vocal about who to blame for this. All the same, it is indeed now a problem requiring multilateral action.

I wonder how many of our esteemed associates will be attending the Inquest, or perhaps assisting remotely, if at all possible?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#238 - 2017-03-20 16:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
An update. Unsurprisingly, FIO activities include those within State borders.

Surprisingly, FIO may've uncovered irregularities that Kaalakiota hasn't. I would've expected a battalion of auditors to have been dropped in on those divisions weeks ago, going through records of all involved with nano-scale precision. Huh.

Fortunately, while it appears the rest of the Patriot bloc is engaged in willful disavowal of the state of affairs, and the Practicals are happy to leave Kaalakiota twisting in the wind, Kaalakiota will undertake its duty regardless.

It's my hope that Kaalakiota will join Ishukone and Zainou at the Inquest to ensure that all involved State parties are able to resolve this situation.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Olga Drottning
Sunny Weather Mercenaries
The Initiative.
#239 - 2017-03-20 16:18:25 UTC
Aradina Varren wrote:

It says a lot about you that you don't even consider the possibility that something might be done for the good of other people.


Cynicism regarding the motivations of others makes me a bad person, despite all evidence to the contrary. Got it.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#240 - 2017-03-20 16:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Let's save the ceaseless recriminations and personal attacks for other threads? There are at least a half-dozen that are well-suited for that at the moment.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?