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Alphas and F2P Have Failed
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Salvos Rhoska
#401 - 2017-03-19 16:09:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

As I said, Im a lone wolf so thats why I focus on the small guy.

What if CCP would expand that walking-around-in-stations concept?

Could that attract a whole new batch of players?


Voi vittu, ny oikeesti.

Now you are just openly trolling.



No, really. Im throwing in all sorts of ideas.

Honestly I dont think Eve is in trouble but this topic keeps
coming up.
And CCP are seriously trying some moves (Alphas).


So WiS would attract more Alphas?
How does CCP profit from that?

Or should WiS be only Omega?

Do you think that would offset the millions of dollars and hours in manpower to make WiS happen?
Just so you can walk around in a station, rather than flying around in EVE?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#402 - 2017-03-19 16:13:00 UTC
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#403 - 2017-03-19 16:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

As I said, Im a lone wolf so thats why I focus on the small guy.

What if CCP would expand that walking-around-in-stations concept?

Could that attract a whole new batch of players?


Voi vittu, ny oikeesti.

Now you are just openly trolling.



No, really. Im throwing in all sorts of ideas.

Honestly I dont think Eve is in trouble but this topic keeps
coming up.
And CCP are seriously trying some moves (Alphas).


So WiS would attract more Alphas?
How does CCP profit from that?

Or should WiS be only Omega?

Do you think that would offset the millions of dollars and hours in manpower to make WiS happen?
Just so you can walk around in a station, rather than flying around in EVE?



A bit of a longshot but I thought more of the social part of
the Eve experience.
I bet it took many hours to develop the Alpha concept too.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2017-03-19 16:20:15 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:

A bit of a longshot but I thought more of the social part of
the Eve experience.
I bet it took many hours to develop the Alpha concept too.



?????????
1 - a bad idea still remain a bad idea no matter how much time you put in it
2 - not so many hours lol, just watch around, many games had a f2p option. just take it and adapt to eve... need to be a genius for that xD Cool
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#405 - 2017-03-19 16:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Soel Reit wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:

A bit of a longshot but I thought more of the social part of
the Eve experience.
I bet it took many hours to develop the Alpha concept too.



?????????
1 - a bad idea still remain a bad idea no matter how much time you put in it
2 - not so many hours lol, just watch around, many games had a f2p option. just take it and adapt to eve... need to be a genius for that xD Cool


Ok, I get the hint.

I didnt mean fullblown Skyrim, maybe something
more than stearing at pictures of career agents
and the local chat.

So lets drop the WiS idea.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#406 - 2017-03-19 17:52:44 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
No.
I like the way you do debate. Please post more!

Thanks!
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#407 - 2017-03-19 17:53:39 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


Like, right-click and invite to fleet?
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#408 - 2017-03-19 18:02:20 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


Like, right-click and invite to fleet?


This
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#409 - 2017-03-19 18:02:57 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


Like, right-click and invite to fleet?



More instant, like an emergency thing... naah forget it.

Everybody just tank. Forget exploring, mining, drifting, going to the
bathroom. Learn to accept losses and live in fear.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#410 - 2017-03-19 18:06:06 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


Like, right-click and invite to fleet?


This


...then it turns that he's a spai and tells his buddies where to meet and pwn your fleet. Blink
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2017-03-19 18:08:01 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


Like, right-click and invite to fleet?


This


...then it turns that he's a spai and tells his buddies where to meet and pwn your fleet. Blink


Everyone in fleet is already a spai especially the FC. So it doesn't matter
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#412 - 2017-03-19 18:26:11 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

I did not come in via Reddit, SA or anything else. I came in because I saw an ad somewhere and thought, "Hey cool." I thought that PvP would be rampant, that as soon as I undocked I'd get shot. It was almost disappointing when I did undock. All these ships in space around the station and nobody shooting anyone.

Can i ask what exactly AD you have seen to get this idea about EvE?

I'm asking because i never seen AD with 'rampant PvP where people blow as soon as they undock". Most of the time CCP ADs have something about lore, or about exploration, about space but not about 'rampant PvP'. There was one AD about revenge but even then it is not what you described.

Maybe you are talking about youtube videos from booster-OGB-solo heroes? In this case you could get this opinion. But it is not "AD". And talking about such videos player expectations can vary heavily depending of what that youtube-hero was doing. Some of these people do only lvl4 missions Lol

Edit: personally i don't remember why i downloaded and started to play EvE. I only remember that for me it was the game about space and spaceships. PvP? Didn't think about it. I suspected it is dangerous around and always was careful (i remember my thrill when i first looted NPC ship for like 1 million in some tags and moved it to market to sell.... that was a lot of money and i was scared moving so expensive stuff around). But i didn't came here to have something like Counter-Strike in space. I'm sure about it.


It was over 9 years ago....no idea at this point.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#413 - 2017-03-19 18:27:41 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I thought that PvP would be rampant, that as soon as I undocked I'd get shot. It was almost disappointing when I did undock. All these ships in space around the station and nobody shooting anyone.


Not everyone wants to shoot ships.
Furthermore, anyone shooting you would have been suicide by cop on their part.

This raises the questions:
What disappointed you more?

That nobody shot at you, or that you couldn't shoot at anyone without exploding?


Dude...it was my first day in game. Did you know everything about the game the very first time you logged in with your trial account?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#414 - 2017-03-19 18:31:19 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Eve has so many opportunities and choices
except one.

The option to dodge a fight.

PvP in all honor but sometimes being in the
wrong place at the wrong time should have
an option.

Just give a poor newbie (or oldie) a chance to
opt out from a totally unfair combat.


You most certainly can dodge fights...but it takes knowledge. And that knowledge comes via experience. Want to get from point A to point B without a fight and through hostile territory, take a fast aligning ship. Some of the best options are not available right away due to SP, but again SP are there partly for balance issues, IMO. And they are not 100% either. And 100% should rarely be part of the game and when it is it should come with severe limitations.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#415 - 2017-03-19 18:34:59 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mister Tuggles wrote:
The main use I've seen for alphas is for players to create throw away catalyst gank squads. This can be seen with the huge uptick in suicide ganking since the release of the alpha and omega states. If CCP wants to start retaining players they need to start taking a hard line stance against extended bumping (more than 2-3 minutes), significantly reduce the 15 minute conflict timer you get if someone engages you that you don't even lock up in high sec space, and start to pull some of the wealth out of Null/make nullsec more dangerous. Right now it is the rich kid's playground that has almost 0 risk but immense rewards.

Despite suicide ganking with alphas requiring multiple ships and resulting in Concord killing the active participants, Concord are killing less people than they have done in the past.

Graphporn of current data from Zkill shows an overall downwards trend. The larger spikes in Concord activity are Burn X events.

TL;DR What huge uptick in suicide ganking?


I love it when people present solid and simple data. Well done.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#416 - 2017-03-19 18:39:25 UTC
Next attempt.

Micro-Plex. Its coming. Since all old players are not paying any
monthly subscriptions, dont know the ratio but it must be alarming
enough to have CCP looking for solutions to get paying customers.

I mentioned P2W. Loading Gold-torpedos for those pesky hard shields.
Maybe some timer cloakshield. Invisible cans. Premium ships.
Energy drink to temporary "overheat" skills.

Maan, they would double their income in notime.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#417 - 2017-03-19 18:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


People can form fleets whenever they want. Yes more numbers is always good in a fight. So this is there already. Right click whomever you want in your fleet and select 'form fleet with'. After that right click on people and select 'invite to fleet' and then select at which level.

Once in fleet and in the same system they can warp to you or you to them.

As for any other benefit, no. It could be used as a method to avoid fatigue.

Edit: It could also, effectively, add jump capability to ships without jump drives if this "platooning" moves people instantly to wherever the platoon creator is.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#418 - 2017-03-19 18:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Teckos Pech wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


People can form fleets whenever they want. Yes more numbers is always good in a fight. So this is there already. Right click whomever you want in your fleet and select 'form fleet with'. After that right click on people and select 'invite to fleet' and then select at which level.

Once in fleet and in the same system they can warp to you or you to them.

As for any other benefit, no. It could be used as a method to avoid fatigue.

Edit: It could also, effectively, add jump capability to ships without jump drives if this "platooning" moves people instantly to wherever the platoon creator is.



Kinda different approach, the create fleet option takes way too long to be
of any direct use.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#419 - 2017-03-19 18:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Next attempt.

Micro-Plex. Its coming. Since all old players are not paying any
monthly subscriptions, dont know the ratio but it must be alarming
enough to have CCP looking for solutions to get paying customers.

I mentioned P2W. Loading Gold-torpedos for those pesky hard shields.
Maybe some timer cloakshield. Invisible cans. Premium ships.
Energy drink to temporary "overheat" skills.

Maan, they would double their income in notime.



Eve players hate gold ammo. To the extent there is P2W in EVE it is extremely limited. Yes you can buy lots of SP and inject them and get high SP in short order. However, even with a 300 million SP character you'll like die like a dog to 3-4 30 million SP characters every time.

And that won't necessarily bring in more players, but will simply monetize the existing player base....which many current EVE players are extremely hostile too. So much so a few years ago players "rioted" in Jita and blew up a monument there. You can still see the wreck of the monument. The incident also prompted this letter from CCP Helmar, the CEO of CCP. Rumor has it he didn't actually write it, but the point is CCP got the point, micro-transactions that are obviously P2W will not sit well with many if not most players.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#420 - 2017-03-19 18:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

How about this.

Platooning.

In WoT you can temporarily platoon. You say it already exists
as making a team.
This could be a faster choice with benefits, like rightclicking
somebody who has a mark in Local that tells everybody he is
ready for platooning. You invite to platoon and if he (them) accept
they would instawarp next to you.
Maybe some other perks for platooners.


People can form fleets whenever they want. Yes more numbers is always good in a fight. So this is there already. Right click whomever you want in your fleet and select 'form fleet with'. After that right click on people and select 'invite to fleet' and then select at which level.

Once in fleet and in the same system they can warp to you or you to them.

As for any other benefit, no. It could be used as a method to avoid fatigue.

Edit: It could also, effectively, add jump capability to ships without jump drives if this "platooning" moves people instantly to wherever the platoon creator is.



Kinda different approach, the create fleet option takes way too long to be
of any direct use.


It takes seconds. You can also create an advert and drop it into a chat channel and others can click it. This all should take less that 1-2 minutes.

Edit: In EVE a little bit of preparation can go a loooong way. This is why logistics in a big NS war is so important. The people who can prepare and be ready first have a significant advantage.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online