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Alphas and F2P Have Failed
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#381 - 2017-03-18 23:47:52 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

I like your mining suggestion. Bring the kind of competition/cooperation we see with mining ice to rocks.

Yep, that's the direction I want to see EVE go. I even sketched out a prototype of a similar system that could replace missions with in space encounters at one stage, because well, I think everyone hates the immersion breaking of saving the damsel for the 10,000th time at the very least.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2017-03-19 11:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Teckos Pech wrote:

I did not come in via Reddit, SA or anything else. I came in because I saw an ad somewhere and thought, "Hey cool." I thought that PvP would be rampant, that as soon as I undocked I'd get shot. It was almost disappointing when I did undock. All these ships in space around the station and nobody shooting anyone.

Can i ask what exactly AD you have seen to get this idea about EvE?

I'm asking because i never seen AD with 'rampant PvP where people blow as soon as they undock". Most of the time CCP ADs have something about lore, or about exploration, about space but not about 'rampant PvP'. There was one AD about revenge but even then it is not what you described.

Maybe you are talking about youtube videos from booster-OGB-solo heroes? In this case you could get this opinion. But it is not "AD". And talking about such videos player expectations can vary heavily depending of what that youtube-hero was doing. Some of these people do only lvl4 missions Lol

Edit: personally i don't remember why i downloaded and started to play EvE. I only remember that for me it was the game about space and spaceships. PvP? Didn't think about it. I suspected it is dangerous around and always was careful (i remember my thrill when i first looted NPC ship for like 1 million in some tags and moved it to market to sell.... that was a lot of money and i was scared moving so expensive stuff around). But i didn't came here to have something like Counter-Strike in space. I'm sure about it.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#383 - 2017-03-19 11:26:59 UTC
^^ There was a load of ads pushed through facebook at one point which had PVP as one of the marketing points - I think it was based off a reworked version of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0 which tends to push a heavy PVP perspective.
Salvos Rhoska
#384 - 2017-03-19 11:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Teckos Pech wrote:
I thought that PvP would be rampant, that as soon as I undocked I'd get shot. It was almost disappointing when I did undock. All these ships in space around the station and nobody shooting anyone.


Not everyone wants to shoot ships.
Furthermore, anyone shooting you would have been suicide by cop on their part.

This raises the questions:
What disappointed you more?

That nobody shot at you, or that you couldn't shoot at anyone without exploding?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Vokan Narkar
Doomheim
#385 - 2017-03-19 11:37:33 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

I did not come in via Reddit, SA or anything else. I came in because I saw an ad somewhere and thought, "Hey cool." I thought that PvP would be rampant, that as soon as I undocked I'd get shot. It was almost disappointing when I did undock. All these ships in space around the station and nobody shooting anyone.

Can i ask what exactly AD you have seen to get this idea about EvE?

I'm asking because i never seen AD with 'rampant PvP where people blow as soon as they undock". Most of the time CCP ADs have something about lore, or about exploration, about space but not about 'rampant PvP'. There was one AD about revenge but even then it is not what you described.

Maybe you are talking about youtube videos from booster-OGB-solo heroes? In this case you could get this opinion. But it is not "AD". And talking about such videos player expectations can vary heavily depending of what that youtube-hero was doing. Some of these people do only lvl4 missions Lol

Thats actually the impression I had about Eve Online when I started too. I dont use facebook or reddit the all info I got from eve was from friends who used to played it/tried it and some random blogs found via google.

Then I was suprised its not like that and later when they suicide ganked me I found out what my friends meant ;
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#386 - 2017-03-19 13:59:02 UTC
Rroff wrote:
^^ There was a load of ads pushed through facebook at one point which had PVP as one of the marketing points - I think it was based off a reworked version of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0 which tends to push a heavy PVP perspective.

Even in this video you have:
- person peacefully mining rocks (and nobody suicides him)
- person quietly exploring (and nobody kills him)
- one fleet attacks another (both sides came especially to fight)
- 3rd party - yes, here is something "unusual" but again: these guys attack already fighting groups

All in all not that 'rampant' PvP. I would say more: this video tells that people do DIFFERENT things, mining, exploring, trading, fighting. Far from what Teckos is trying to say.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#387 - 2017-03-19 13:59:25 UTC
Eve has so many opportunities and choices
except one.

The option to dodge a fight.

PvP in all honor but sometimes being in the
wrong place at the wrong time should have
an option.

Just give a poor newbie (or oldie) a chance to
opt out from a totally unfair combat.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Salvos Rhoska
#388 - 2017-03-19 14:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Just give a poor newbie (or oldie) a chance to opt out from a totally unfair combat.

Not possible.

Having said that, there are some mechanics which can be changed to prevent a grossly unfair fight in some sectors, but ONLY if you took as many precautions as possible.

Safety cannot be a cover for lack of personal responsibility.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mister Tuggles
Dickhead Corner
#389 - 2017-03-19 14:16:29 UTC
The main use I've seen for alphas is for players to create throw away catalyst gank squads. This can be seen with the huge uptick in suicide ganking since the release of the alpha and omega states. If CCP wants to start retaining players they need to start taking a hard line stance against extended bumping (more than 2-3 minutes), significantly reduce the 15 minute conflict timer you get if someone engages you that you don't even lock up in high sec space, and start to pull some of the wealth out of Null/make nullsec more dangerous. Right now it is the rich kid's playground that has almost 0 risk but immense rewards.
Salvos Rhoska
#390 - 2017-03-19 14:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
That is the ironic hilarity of people arguing for Malcanis' Law.

All it ever has ever led to, is more NS based profit.
Whether in NS, or on their HS/LS alts.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Dimitrios Bekas
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#391 - 2017-03-19 14:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dimitrios Bekas
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Despite the initial surge in new Alpha players, active player numbers on Tranquility are now almost back to where they were prior to Ascension. There is nothing earth shattering on the horizon and CCP has fired all barrels (SKINs, skill extractors/injectors and F2P). To-date Alphas have't really contributed more than reducing mineral prices, serving as cannon fodder in null fleets and continued thread requests for "moar".

Numbers don't lie so it will be interesting to see how CCP spins this (if they even try to spin it). I'm not sure if the free 30-day trial that was originally in-place was any worse than the current F2P model. One advantage of the free trial is that it gave you unlimited access to the game for a month - which was more than enough time to make a determination.

Rather than continuing to gimp the "Alpha experience" CCP should be looking for ways to incentivize players to subscribe and become Omegas. So here are a few suggestions in no particular order (donning my asbestos suit):

* Remove all the current skill and module restrictions from Alphas save one: reduced skill training time.
* Limit Alphas to high-sec only. No venturing into low-sec, null-sec or wormhole space.
* Move L4 agents, Incursions and ice belts to low-sec. I was vehemently opposed to these ideas originally, but have gradually warmed to the concept (even though it means my own style of play will have to adapt and evolve). In combination with banning the transit and operatipn of supers, this might actually largely fix low-sec.
* Extend a Premium Insurance option to Omegas to cover T2, T3 and Faction ship hulls and ease the transition to low-sec.
* Introduce a new Implant Extractor for Aurum that can only be utilized by Omega characters (use extracts all implants in a clone or corpse).

Comments welcome - discussion appreciated - even flames tolerated.



****SO MUCH no no no and wrong wrong wrong in that opening text,...

***One advantage of the free trial is that it gave you unlimited access to the game for a month - which was more than enough time to make a determination.*** - Bullshit, you don´t know what you are talking about....

***active player numbers on Tranquility are now almost back to where they were prior to Ascension.*** -yeah, that little word ALMOST in this sentence...ALMOST what ? 1000, 2000, 5000 ? Compare to last year, same month... *no words*

***There is nothing earth shattering on the horizon and CCP has fired all barrels (SKINs, skill extractors/injectors and F2P).*** -yes,...so you Sir work at CCP HQ, know that THIS was all they had planned, no barrels left to fire, or did you just asked that crystal globe that tells you everything ? MAYBE this was just the start and CCP does not push it high and fast enough to not overhelm and stress you oldschool "PLEASE HÄLLP CCP NO CHANGES AT ALL Playerbase" ? Bullshit.

***To-date Alphas have't really contributed more than reducing mineral prices, serving as cannon fodder in null fleets and continued thread requests for "moar".*** -yes,..even more Deluxe Bullshit. I am tired, thats why i stop here, don´t even want to read anymore or post anymore...too much Bullshit™ ! Really, i mean really ? Go to PH Staging, get on comms, or go to Brave, get into their Defense Fleets...and see how legendary™ Heroes™ are born out of Alphas, that then HAVE A GOOD F************** REASON to subscribe and become OMEGAs.

But yeah,...that was of course possible in 30D before Alphas...well that´s what your Crystal Globe of Storytelling and Fortune may have told you, but the FACTS and the REALITY are far far away from what you POST here, dear Sir....Building up the Reputation, getting the feeling of being "valuable" as a Pilot, printing small footsteps into the Sandbox and getting into the social aspects of eve...thats why TRIALS become SUBSCRIBERS....but holy f********************* Jesus Christ...you write "BANN THEM OUT OF LOW AND NULL"....*speechless*

Alpha Idea by CCP was and still is AWESOME...Injectors, AWESOME,...more sexy Skins,...FML awesome if you like the Candy and willing to pay for it...and hell yes, i am so interested for MOARRRR Things to come.

PLEASE CCP shoot at me with your BARRELS of NEW IDEAS and CHANGES !!!!! Raise the RATE OF FIRE of those BARRELLSSSS, because i am tired of that burning feeling in my chest to write my Comments under Bullshit™ (see above)

A NEW EVE...A NEW PLAYERBASE....old EVE needs to die in a lot of parts to attract new and fresh and hopefully more YOUNG Playerbase.

To the thread opener, please don´t take it too personally, never ever wanted to offend you, and sure it may sound a bit harsh and aggro how i write it,...but it needed some LOVE. Anyway, hope you will like and ACCEPT more New and fresh Ideas soon. Fly dangerous and risky o7
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#392 - 2017-03-19 14:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mister Tuggles wrote:
The main use I've seen for alphas is for players to create throw away catalyst gank squads. This can be seen with the huge uptick in suicide ganking since the release of the alpha and omega states. If CCP wants to start retaining players they need to start taking a hard line stance against extended bumping (more than 2-3 minutes), significantly reduce the 15 minute conflict timer you get if someone engages you that you don't even lock up in high sec space, and start to pull some of the wealth out of Null/make nullsec more dangerous. Right now it is the rich kid's playground that has almost 0 risk but immense rewards.

Despite suicide ganking with alphas requiring multiple ships and resulting in Concord killing the active participants, Concord are killing less people than they have done in the past.

Graphporn of current data from Zkill shows an overall downwards trend. The larger spikes in Concord activity are Burn X events.

TL;DR What huge uptick in suicide ganking?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#393 - 2017-03-19 14:54:52 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Eve has so many opportunities and choices
except one.

The option to dodge a fight.

PvP in all honor but sometimes being in the
wrong place at the wrong time should have
an option.

Just give a poor newbie (or oldie) a chance to
opt out from a totally unfair combat.


No.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#394 - 2017-03-19 14:56:39 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mister Tuggles wrote:
The main use I've seen for alphas is for players to create throw away catalyst gank squads. This can be seen with the huge uptick in suicide ganking since the release of the alpha and omega states. If CCP wants to start retaining players they need to start taking a hard line stance against extended bumping (more than 2-3 minutes), significantly reduce the 15 minute conflict timer you get if someone engages you that you don't even lock up in high sec space, and start to pull some of the wealth out of Null/make nullsec more dangerous. Right now it is the rich kid's playground that has almost 0 risk but immense rewards.

Despite suicide ganking with alphas requiring multiple ships and resulting in Concord killing the active participants, Concord are killing less people than they have done in the past.

Graphing current data from Zkill shows an overall downwards trend. The spikes in Concord activity are Burn X events.


Please, don't confuse them with facts.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#395 - 2017-03-19 15:28:28 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Rroff wrote:
^^ There was a load of ads pushed through facebook at one point which had PVP as one of the marketing points - I think it was based off a reworked version of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0 which tends to push a heavy PVP perspective.

Even in this video you have:
- person peacefully mining rocks (and nobody suicides him)
- person quietly exploring (and nobody kills him)
- one fleet attacks another (both sides came especially to fight)
- 3rd party - yes, here is something "unusual" but again: these guys attack already fighting groups

All in all not that 'rampant' PvP. I would say more: this video tells that people do DIFFERENT things, mining, exploring, trading, fighting. Far from what Teckos is trying to say.


I used to get a variant of that video in my facebook feed - due to having a few friends on there who play it with something like "X, Y and Z like Eve Online" and then a video below which was about 90% PVP stuff and then like 2 seconds of market and mining images at the end which made the game seem far more PVP orientated than a lot of the marketing.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#396 - 2017-03-19 15:40:49 UTC
Ok

As I said, Im a lone wolf so thats why I focus on the small guy.

What if CCP would expand that walking-around-in-stations concept?

Could that attract a whole new batch of players?

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Salvos Rhoska
#397 - 2017-03-19 15:47:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
TL;DR What huge uptick in suicide ganking?


Your stats are valid.

But what about the rest of his post regarding NS?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska
#398 - 2017-03-19 15:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

As I said, Im a lone wolf so thats why I focus on the small guy.

What if CCP would expand that walking-around-in-stations concept?

Could that attract a whole new batch of players?


Voi vittu, ny oikeesti.

Now you are just openly trolling.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#399 - 2017-03-19 15:52:06 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
No.
I like the way you do debate. Please post more!

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#400 - 2017-03-19 16:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Ok

As I said, Im a lone wolf so thats why I focus on the small guy.

What if CCP would expand that walking-around-in-stations concept?

Could that attract a whole new batch of players?


Voi vittu, ny oikeesti.

Now you are just openly trolling.



No, really. Im throwing in all sorts of ideas.

Honestly I dont think Eve is in trouble but this topic keeps
coming up.
And CCP are seriously trying some moves (Alphas).

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.