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[Discussion] WH shakeup
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discordigant
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-01-12 09:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: discordigant
So wanted to get feedback and ideas on future direction of WH's to see if i am alone in my thoughts and to see if a future expansion would change more than just Nullsec.

1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.
9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
EDIT: 11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?

/prods the public to share their thoughts and troll me back to Jita with all my tasty loots.

Posting on an alt as i do not want my views to reflect that of my alliance as a whole and i hope many alliances will step forward. And i hope those hunters that stalk us also step forward with their thoughts.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-12 15:00:09 UTC
If anything is to be added in terms of more systems for WH space I would say high class more difficult WH's. C7, C8 and C9...maybe even C10.

Moongoo should stay in 0 sec in my opinion. If moongoo were to exist in WH's it would make them to money rich...moreso then they are now. If moongoo is to come it should be the low value stuff.

If we are to make sleeper sites more difficult I would say remove this idiotic spawn based on what ship is killed and put it on a random timer. Add more ships...make it require more people. Make escalations more random in terms of numbers and what shows up. CCP invented PvE Dreads by creating escalations.

PvP mechanics don't need an overhaul in WH space but WH games are irritating...bouncing in and out of WH's to avoid death...annoying...

Ice should come to WH space. No reason for it not to at this point. Argue all you want about it making it too easy to live permanantly in WH space...it already is and isn't going to change.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-01-12 15:06:16 UTC
discordigant wrote:
So wanted to get feedback and ideas on future direction of WH's to see if i am alone in my thoughts and to see if a future expansion would change more than just Nullsec.

1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.
9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
EDIT: 11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?

/prods the public to share their thoughts and troll me back to Jita with all my tasty loots.

Posting on an alt as i do not want my views to reflect that of my alliance as a whole and i hope many alliances will step forward. And i hope those hunters that stalk us also step forward with their thoughts.

1. I can't really say.
2. POS Mechanics are seriously broken anyway, but that's partly a topic for part 3.
3. YES! The original POS mechanics were never meant for corps/alliances to share towers, but that is a necessary part of WH life (staging towers, joint ops, etal).
4. No. That'd provide too much incentive for 0.0 sovholders to invade W-space en masse.
5. No. The problem is that most corps and alliances refuse to farm their W-space statics for sites. Beats me as to why. One idea would be to give C1s and C3s a second static (always W-space) in the same vein as C2 space.
6. We're doing quite nicely right now, have you looked at Nanoribbon prices lately? One thing that'd be nice is to have some other consumer of Sleeper salvage than T3 ship production.
7. If WH PvP mechanics were to be adjusted, it'd be HS holes that'd get the changes, as you mentioned. W-space -> non HS is fine.
8. No. WH warfare is the last place where small gangs still matter. Keep the large-scale warfare in K-space, please.
9. C2s and up are not bad, but C1 wormholes are too difficult to close safely without the HIC trick. (They also take a while to pop, which is rather aggravating, especially considering that they still pose a significant security threat with the rise of T3/logi doctrines.) Also: Hulks/Covetors don't fit into C1s, but that's a problem with the Covetor hull, not C1 WHs.
11. We've already done all our Interbus-popping, and it is a bit of a pain, but better than offline tower disposal. Besides, this is the only time we ever have to do it.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#4 - 2012-01-12 16:50:01 UTC
1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?

most systems seem to have POS's in them but are generally low on player activity. There needs to be more incentive for people to log their wormhole chars aside from the daily PI rounds. Maybe have C4 - C6 sites spawn a small number of "easier" anomalies in addition to their regular more difficult ones ?

2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?

dont understand the question.

3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)

hell yes.

4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)

No I like my wh to be nullsec powerbloc free.

5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.

I'd love it, but I don't see a real reason to as u can just cycle your static wh.

6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?

No. we need more T3 hulls /subsystems requiring differnent materials so sleeper salvage prices go up.

7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)

I like it the way it is.

8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.

I live in w-space for the small scale encounters, C5's and C6's already allow for "larger" scale fights I don't really see a need for anything bigger ?

9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?

Seem fine to me. I would like more "Random" wormholes to occur , right now u see "non-static" wormholes occur every so often but always the same "type" it would add some dynamics if non-statics could end up anywhere, instead of what u see occuring now.

10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?

CCP cares as much for us as any other paying subscriber, the problem is we make up only 5% of the playerbase. This needs to improve.

11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?

We got rid of them within a week. It was a pain in the arse and hella boring, but 0% tax is nice.
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2012-01-13 00:42:37 UTC
Are there enough WH systems? I really could not say. I certianly have seen an awful lot of populated systems in my sphere of experience. I wonder if that means that there needs to be more. If pressed for an answer, I would say that there should be more w-space systems.

Should moons be mineable for goo? I'm torn. I want the logic to be consistent, but I also want to keep big alliances and corporations out of w-space. If moon goo means I can expect a flood of Russians every few days, I'll gladly pass.

Sleeper sites and other site spawn rates? Seems about right. One idea would be to have the occasional site spawn from the adjacent class. For instance, if you live in a C2 wh, you could get a C3 plex every now and then (and visa versa). This would give the occasional big challenge (or slaughter if you get a spawn from a lower class). The rate seems about okay.

Site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised? I'm happy with things the way they are. It seems about right. I proposed that sleeper structures drop things some time ago, and I think this could be a way to milk a little more juice out of a site, but for the most part, I think it is a balance.

"It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation". I do not care what they intended. They should get used to us living here.

Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be? I never thought too much about this until you ask,but I did think that the occasional super wormhole could open up with an immense mass allowance. That would be an occasional wild card that could be fun.

How are the PI changes affecting your corp? I totally stopped doing any PI whatsoever. Which is sad, because I enjoyed managing it before their changes.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-01-13 00:52:42 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

PvP mechanics don't need an overhaul in WH space but WH games are irritating...bouncing in and out of WH's to avoid death...annoying...


Only twice, and you have to plan it ahead to not end up on the wrong side of WH - so no - its not bad mechanic, its actually beeter than normal gates in many ways

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

Ice should come to WH space. No reason for it not to at this point. Argue all you want about it making it too easy to live permanantly in WH space...it already is and isn't going to change.


I guess, since they plan on making null more self-sufficent, they could make WH too, but they will not probably - as they (CCP) said long ago - WH are not for long time living in them...


discordigant wrote:
So wanted to get feedback and ideas on future direction of WH's to see if i am alone in my thoughts and to see if a future expansion would change more than just Nullsec.

1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.
9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
EDIT: 11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?

/prods the public to share their thoughts and troll me back to Jita with all my tasty loots.

Posting on an alt as i do not want my views to reflect that of my alliance as a whole and i hope many alliances will step forward. And i hope those hunters that stalk us also step forward with their thoughts.


1. yes, its enough
2. needs total overhaul
3. same as for POS
4. yes and no - i dont want normal moon goo in WH. I would like to see some new type of material from it, that would require player interaction (something in terms of PI) and destructible by small sized gang - material in turn could be used to produce new types of T3's
5. would love to get more sites in our system, but that works against main idea of WH. Still, I'm all for it.
6. if more sites, than should be lowered.
7. no
8. if they finally decided that WH's are used like the players wanted them and started working on making them more habitable, i'm all in.
9 - yes and yes
10 I hope not :)
11. its ok

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
discordigant
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-01-13 08:43:21 UTC
Some solid responses so far and keep em coming. Most people seem to be fairly happy but with wanting minor changes.

A few changes i would like to see are Site spawn rates dependent on your inhabiting numbers, so if your a small corp of a few in a C1 you won't have unlimited sites to farm but if you have a a medium size in a C2 or 3 you will have a constant spawn enough to farm. Or am i wrong and should the spawn rates be the same to thus force people to farm and explore statics.

Someone made the suggestion that you should get random anomalies from other class WH's, a great idea to test people with a bit harder content.

Perhaps your right moon goo may be going to far and then forcing major blobs into habitation of holes that i think are already over populated with 5-20man corps. I also like the idea that the other salvage becomes useful as at current only blue loot and ribbons matter.

I guess i made this post because i do feel there is not enough holes (Definitely not enough empty holes to entice more people to search for new homes) and i see a lot of silent habitation from people that only do PI and leave all else to waste. And i wondered why many more people are not interested in living in them and the barriers that do stop them for taking that leap.
Kwashi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-13 11:57:15 UTC
There are definitely enough wormhole systems. Many, many wormhole systems lie empty, and the vast majority of settled systems are occupied by only a handful of pilots. There is room to spare currently, and more people should move in !

Wormspace economics currently work well to support both casual isk-making and hardcore carebear lifestyles for dwellers therein. Moons should not be minable for goo - currently to make isk in wormspace one must venture outside the POS and risk getting shot; moongoo mining would eliminate that.

POS mechanics are dreadfully in need of an overhaul, especially in the area of roles granularity. Not sure if that's what you meant by POS mechanics.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-01-13 17:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Kwashi wrote:
There are definitely enough wormhole systems. Many, many wormhole systems lie empty, and the vast majority of settled systems are occupied by only a handful of pilots. There is room to spare currently, and more people should move in !

Wormspace economics currently work well to support both casual isk-making and hardcore carebear lifestyles for dwellers therein. Moons should not be minable for goo - currently to make isk in wormspace one must venture outside the POS and risk getting shot; moongoo mining would eliminate that.

POS mechanics are dreadfully in need of an overhaul, especially in the area of roles granularity. Not sure if that's what you meant by POS mechanics.

I like what Kwashi put down, and doubling up the need for POS/Corp roles/titles rework > granularity (i.e. - finer control).

Edit to add: Yeah, no moon mining - logic be damn'd! :)

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-01-13 18:26:00 UTC

1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
There are plenty....mechanics need a reworked but thats about it.
*Ref: Various mapping programs*

2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
No.... POS Mechancis suck ass. People just are lazy and dont give a #### as a result.

3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
#### Yes.

4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
#### NO.

5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
Don't think so..plenty of money to be had..just a matter of mechanics.

6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
Neither.

7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
Wut? Seriously? It's 0.0...what the hell mechanics are you talking about? WH's? They are fine..works as intended.

8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.
WRONG.... CCP made it difficult for longer term living....they didn't say no one wouldn't do it. Its much like living in the wilderness. Some things just cant be had or gathered without extra work.

9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
Yes.

10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
They care...but people keep comnig up with stupid ideas.

EDIT: 11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus?
As far as I know my alliance isn't interested in WHS...based on what I hear and observe...the changes are good if not better. Annoying to get started...but better in the long run.

Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together? This I can get....WHS is unknown space....to imply they where there to begin with is kinda stupid....




Honestly WHS is fine.....the biggest change needed is POS Mechanics and roles...period.
Everything else..waste of time.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-01-13 21:33:27 UTC
I'm part of a small corp living in a C2 wormhole. We only have a handful of active player and it creates a few problem when it comes to rolling wormholes and destroying structures.

1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
Yes, there's plenty of wormholes.


2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
We don't bother with destroying or attacking towers. They're too tough and take too long to destroy for a corp of our size even when they're offline.


3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
Handling access is annoying and a change would be appreciated.


4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
No. Mineable moon would destroy the small corporation life we have in our wormhole.


5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
Yes, right now, now sites seem to spawn at a snail pace and we don't have much to do. The static C2 is often depleted or occupied. I'm worried that as the wormhole population increase, there will less and less sites available to do. We could roll the static C2, but with a small corp, it takes time and there's the risk of getting stuck on the other side for several days.


6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
The rewards are okay. Magneometric have pretty lame loot in C1-2. Like other people said, it would be nice to have more use for wormhole salvage. Most often, there's a lack of site to do and I end up going to Known space to run exploration sites or do missions.

7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
I don't have any problem with the way they are right now. If it's a high sec wormhole, I just need to use some creativity to catch some preys.

8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.

I like the small scale pvp present in wormhole.

9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
Timers and mass limits are fine.


10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
I think CCP will listen. There was so mention of a developer that did some wormhole and pointed out some of the problems with bookmarks.


EDIT: 11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?
It takes hours for our small corporation to destroy the Interbus, but now we have our POCO up and everything is well again.
D'Tell Annoh
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2012-01-14 21:08:01 UTC
discordigant wrote:
A few changes i would like to see are Site spawn rates dependent on your inhabiting numbers, so if your a small corp of a few in a C1 you won't have unlimited sites to farm but if you have a a medium size in a C2 or 3 you will have a constant spawn enough to farm. Or am i wrong and should the spawn rates be the same to thus force people to farm and explore statics.
You know, I actually disagree with you here.

To start off with, I'm not exactly sure how you measure the inhabiting numbers to be used as a variable in calculating spawn rates. Do you calculate alts? If so, could people with multiple accounts inflate the inhabitant size and get more sites for their small corp?

Add into this that (in my opinion) wormholes aren't for big corps. They're for gangs and squads and small groups. Once you get to a population size where the plexes get run too fast and the ISK split is pretty meager, it is time to consider pulling up stakes and moving into a higher class wormhole. Sure, it's not easy, but if you have the firepower and the numbers, it is the next logical step.

I think it's easier to keep the spawn rate based off of the wormhole class, and let the rest sort itself out. If the pond gets too small, it's because you're a big fish.
Naj Panora
The Seekers of Ore
#13 - 2012-01-16 19:29:30 UTC

1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
I would endorse an increase of W-systems.

2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
Don't really think so.

3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
Corp access yes. How you get into the W-Space no.

4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
Yes but for stuff completely different from 0.0 that way both keep their unique properties. This could possibly mean new materials for ships.

5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
Maybe only in C5 and C6

6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised? Upped a little but not much.

7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS) Only thing I would like to see added is a comms relay for POS's. This item would allow people to be seen in local but would eat a good piece of resources.

8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at
making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun. Yes

9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be? Masses need adjusting I think. they are ok for C1 and C2 but I would like to see C3 allow freighters through but not dreadnoughts and above so maybe just a restrition that only Indy Command and freighters capital class ships can pass through

10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
Yes but if we don't try they won't even look at W-Space for an overhaul.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-01-16 21:24:54 UTC
D'Tell Annoh wrote:
discordigant wrote:
A few changes i would like to see are Site spawn rates dependent on your inhabiting numbers, so if your a small corp of a few in a C1 you won't have unlimited sites to farm but if you have a a medium size in a C2 or 3 you will have a constant spawn enough to farm. Or am i wrong and should the spawn rates be the same to thus force people to farm and explore statics.
You know, I actually disagree with you here.

To start off with, I'm not exactly sure how you measure the inhabiting numbers to be used as a variable in calculating spawn rates. Do you calculate alts? If so, could people with multiple accounts inflate the inhabitant size and get more sites for their small corp?

Add into this that (in my opinion) wormholes aren't for big corps. They're for gangs and squads and small groups. Once you get to a population size where the plexes get run too fast and the ISK split is pretty meager, it is time to consider pulling up stakes and moving into a higher class wormhole. Sure, it's not easy, but if you have the firepower and the numbers, it is the next logical step.

I think it's easier to keep the spawn rate based off of the wormhole class, and let the rest sort itself out. If the pond gets too small, it's because you're a big fish.

Also: I wonder how many of those folks just sit there in their home WH all day and never get out and shoot Sleepers, gas, ... in connected W-space systems. A dual-static C2 can house a very good sized corporation (100+, easy) without getting stuffy WRT the ISKies if you're good at farming your static.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#15 - 2012-01-16 22:08:22 UTC
1. I see a lot of empty systems, so yes.
2. I don't see a problem, but I'm not sure I understand the question.
3. Yes, but not too drastically. I'd rather see this done in increments to make sure they get it right, one papercut at a time. CCP hasn't shown a great track record for making sweeping all-in-one changes.
4. No. Moongoo is for nullsec. T3 salvage is for w-space.

5. As I understand it, people have reported an observable drop in spawns if a wormhole is too regularly farmed. If that truly is systematic and not subjective, then that needs to be removed. There shouldn't be a penalty for high levels of activity. Other than that, I wouldn't change much except maybe to slightly increase the overall number of sites so that there are one or two more per system on average.
6. Wormhole rewards are almost entirely market driven. Leave them alone.
7. Hell no, don't touch wh PVP.
8. If anything, make a few new classes of wormholes that serve as long-term connections between two w-space systems. Maybe remove their mass limits and have them open for a fixed 48 hours, allowing significant traffic between systems and enabling some serious warfare to go down before the hole closes.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#16 - 2012-01-18 07:05:10 UTC
I'm one who thinks wormholes are one of the most balanced systems in EVE, and I'd like them to stay that way. Quickly regarding your questions:

Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?

A marginal increase to the number of wormhole systems sometime in the more distant future wouldn't hurt. Not now though.

Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?

POS Mechanics are POS mechanics; despite recent changes, they still need more work. I favour modular POS myself; though not specifically as it is described here on the forums. I am not in favour of CCP following the never-ending thread to the letter, or modeling the structure after the designs therein.

Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)

Corp Access and Roles are also seperate from WH Mechanics, though they affect gameplay in them. The whole Corp structure could use some reworking with more or less "granularity" in certain areas.

Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)

Goo is a pretty loosely defined term here, and applies to pretty much any drop that results in a manufacturable material. Yes, I think that Moons in WHs should produce some sort of material for manufacturing. It doesn't have to be the same as Nullsec, and probably shouldn't be. I'd favour goo for producing additional Tech 3 products in a limited fashion.

Specifically, it should produce only a marginal quantity of goo that makes up only a portion of new T3 production requirements, and serves only to fill something missing from the T3 equation.

Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.

I think spawn rates are fine. There is no drastic observable decline in Sleeper site spawns in my opinion.

What people are seeing is a manifestation of the randomization algorithm used to make sleeper sites spawn in an apparently random fashion, would be my best guess, and I have experienced it. It could perhaps use a little tweaking, as it can be severely detrimental to WH activities for weeks at a time; though cycling statics can help to reduce the effect on the Corp/Alliance as a whole.

There is also some degree of speculation that suggests sites that spawn in other wormholes count as spawned and, without despawning there, cannot appear elsewhere. Evidence would suggest that this is also to some degree true, and impacts this equation.

Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised? Upped a little but not much.

They're fine as they are. As previously mentioned, increases and decreases in Tech 3 production requirements; will affect and change the value of the salvage retrieved from these sites.

Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)

PvP mechanics in WHs are fine. No need to change them at all. Once you've learned the basics of WH navigation and understand WH mechanics; the rest is just PvP, with whatever considerations are required for the type and class of WH.

It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.

I don't think there was any bet involved; more that it was unexpected that many players would go for long-term habitation in them. They designed C5 and C6 WHs right from the start of course, and allowed POS to function in WHs; so it stands to reason they believed, and possibly hoped, there might be some players daring enough to try the venture.

C5 and C6 are already viable for larger numbers. C6 in particular, though there are limitations to that. I don't think you should be able to have and support 1000 man Alliances and Corps in one WH if that's what you mean. ~100 is fine.

Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?

Working as intended I think. I've never had a problem with them really, beyond initial assessment of logistical problems. Once you get past that part, the rest is pretty easy, and those issues actually make WHs more secure in many ways.

Given the nature of WH space, that is important; as increases to those masses and spawn timers would make it far easier for very large fleets to invade WHs. This can be done-with a little work-as it is. Provided the fleet has no problem with being stuck in there with you; they can move in a very large force in short order.

Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?

I think all game content is relevent to the bottom line for CCP, provided it has a subscriber based focused on it. WHs do, and thus they are important. They don't however need a lot of, (if any), work.

How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?

I'm sure my old Corp is doing just fine with the PI changes. They're an industrious lot, who don't mind a bit of grind where it's necessary. I can't speak for the changes myself, as I've never seen them.

Nothing is ever as short as you intend it to be; at least, not for me.
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Goodluvins
Shadowlight Society
#17 - 2012-01-20 01:14:53 UTC
1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
Although a lot of the mid-class WHs are uninhabited, I believe there should be an increase in C6's. I say this because there are less than 120 of them currently in game and static manipulation (with the right ships) takes the whole random feeling out of the equation. We can cycle holes in less than 30 secs after scanning it down, meaning that we can hit the same systems after about 3hrs of chain collapsing.
2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
No, but POS mechanics as a whole need love.
3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
Yes
4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
Im with the crowd, not for the same material as nullsec.
5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
Yes. It is one thing to farm your static, but mass limitation inhibits cap esc in them, and low home system spawn rates after depletion penalyze active dwellers.
6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
Raised. Right now the hardest sights done with full capital escalation by a high dps group nets more than high-sec incursions, but not by enough in comparison when you consider the ship loss risk from pvp, difficulty of the sites, and investments needed to reach those levels.
7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
No.
8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.
Yes
9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
Yes
10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
Well, if you read the CSM minutes meeting after meeting we currently only have Two Step vouching for us. Often the nullsec babies whine when something about wspace gets mentioned. A previous post had it right though, we currently only represent a small portion of the subscriber base and I dont see CCP focusing on changing that anytime soon.
EDIT: 11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?
Ours are "assploded". I am not in favor of making life easier in Wspace (outside of POS mechanics).
Borg Stoneson
SWARTA
#18 - 2012-01-22 09:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Borg Stoneson
1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
Yes, for now. As for populations levels, hard to say.

2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
Probably, but that's not a problem. Player WH colonies need some serious love though.

3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
Yes
4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
Not for the same goo as in nullsec, (except for perhaps the most common junk like silicates/hydrocarbons/etc, seriously that stuff's everywhere).

5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
I believe so, but not by much, I'd prefer it to be done via an infrastructure upgrade. Make people work towards it.

6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
Keep the loot the same, as much as i want more isk/hr making the payout too good would cause a stampede into WH's, while some people will love the extra pvp I prefer to hit a quiet WH on occasion. Rather than change the site loot it would be better to raise the value of the non ribbon sleeper salvage, more t3 (t3 BS's woo!) or for those who have huge stockpiles maybe make a few deployable structures out of it.

7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
Not really, a group escaping into hs is never nice but that's just a small and very specific part of WH pvp

8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.
Yes
Yes, though not necessarily to encurage larger scale wars, though that will happen, and infact is happening even without any changes.

9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
Mostly, I think the total mass on C1's needs to be lowered.

10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
I've long held the belief that CCP doesn't like WH dwellers because we ruined their new game feature by settling down and mastering it.

11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?
We have one interbus CO left, we shoot them when we get bored
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#19 - 2012-01-22 09:35:59 UTC
discordigant wrote:
So wanted to get feedback and ideas on future direction of WH's to see if i am alone in my thoughts and to see if a future expansion would change more than just Nullsec.

1. Is there enough WH systems? If not what class needs more?Are they under or overpopulated?
2. Are POS mechanics enabling to many people to just clean out weak systems and not bother with harder targets?
3. Should access and roles be reworked? (Doubttfull i will be alone on that one)
4. Should moons be mineable for goo?....(Waits for the hate from that)
5. Should sleeper sites and other sites spawn rates be raised to foster larger corp/Alliance growth.
6. Should site ISK/Rewards be lowered or raised?
7. Do WH PVP Mechanics need an overhaul? (Many things come to mind here, need to pop those carebears that jump back to HS)
8.It was stated by CCP long ago that WH's were not meant for long term habitation, since they lost that bet should they now look at making them more viable for larger numbers to encourage larger scale WH system warfare and not just the russians taking out weak systems for fun.
9. Are WH masses and spawn times what they should be?
10. Do you think i am pissing in the wind here to think CCP cares about WH dwellers and our corps/alliances?
EDIT: 11. How are the PI changes affecting your corp? Are you too small that it is taking weeks just to blow up interbus? Should they just remove interbus in WH's all together?
.


I dont live in wholes. That having been said, I think:

1) Yes
2) I believe so. POS mechanics should be overhauled and outposts should be anchorable in whs.
3) It could use some love, but not too much since the foundations work fine as is.
4) Yes, but via PI. Death to POS based moon mining. Give us Moon Interaction!
5) Yes.
6) I think its fine as is.
7) Not sure, going with a no here.
8) Absolutely.
9) Yes. If CCP allow you to build supers in a wh, that would go a long way to making good fights. Supers should not be able to use wormholes to move betwen kspace and ukspace.
10) Maybe.
11) They aren't. But if PI could allow you to mine ice from Ice planets, then WH habitation would be more sustainable and would all but eliminate the need to go back to hisec for stuff.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!