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- BattleShip -
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elitatwo

Zansha Expansion

Likes received: 1,739

#41 - 2017-03-17 17:01:53 UTC | Edited by: elitatwo

Ersahi Kir wrote:

...No, fix the ships themselves.

Tempest Fleet - complete garbage
Typhoon Fleet - split weapon bonuses are bad. This use to have the highest damage of any missile platform at 8.25 effective launcher, but lost a lot paper DPS because of bad application. With the barghest sporting 9 effective launchers it's bad on every level. The only advantage it has is 125 mb of unbonused drones, but that doesn't make up for it being unimpressive.

Megathron Navy - I don't know anyone who would consider a regular megathron to a navy megathron as an upgrade path. You either go to a vindicator or a kronos. Even if it only cost 10m extra to get a navy megathron I doubt it would be worth it.
Domi Navy - just what everyone wants, split weapon bonuses on what is possibly the best T1 battleship. If they copied and pasted the bonuses from the T1 domi it would be top shelf with the extra mid, as it stands it's laughably bad.

Apocalypse Navy - decently useful. Probably the best navy battleship right now.
Armageddon Navy - no idea, doesn't look bad but doesn't get a lot of play either (my exposure to this ship is limited)

Raven Navy - It use to be a good ship that was a reasonable upgrade from a T1 raven. It's still ok, but the 9 effective turret barghest overshadows it now.
Scorpion Navy - it has a small window of being good for lower sp characters. Once someone starts maxing out enough skills it falls off hard to the golem, rattlesnake, and barghest.

The problem with these ships isn't the cost compared to T1 battleships, it's that these ships often fail to be upgrades to them.

Careful with that comparison. One must not forget the law of ship progression. It goes:

Pirate faction >>>>> Navy faction / t2 >>>>> t1

- Comparing a Megathron Navy Issue to a vindicator or kronos is an accurate observation to this law.

- Rattlesnake uses 2 weapon systems as the end of all battleships progression and is placed like this:
Rattlesnake >>>>>> Navy Dominix (a very, very, very large Vexor which also uses 2 weapon systems but the kids in faction warfare can only win a fight if they try to make every droneboat a Curse but only the Curse is a Curse, so stop trying) >>>>> Dominix

- The Apocalypse Navy Issue / Armageddon Navy Issue are in the right spot

Nightmare >>>>>>>>>> Navy Apoc / Navy Armageddon != Paladin >>>>> Apocalypse / Armageddon

- It goes Barghest >>>>>> Raven Navy Issue / Scorpion Navy Issue != Golem >>>>> Raven

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Atomeon

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 82

#42 - 2017-03-17 22:18:14 UTC

Battleships need some role bonus unique or "stolen" from another ship.
First example: 300% bonus to armor plates and shield extenders (No need to make new 3200mm plate with silly Power grid numbers).
Second Example: 150% bonus to light drones damage and hitpoints. Add some more drone bay m3 to Battleships.
Third Example: 60% more tracking against frigates and 30% against Dessies and Cruisers.
Forth Example: Cant miss more than 8 times in a row. 9th hit will hit for damage.

They need for sure a role bonus to make them viable again.

elitatwo

Zansha Expansion

Likes received: 1,739

#43 - 2017-03-17 22:30:04 UTC

Atomeon wrote:

Nobody is stopping you from fitting an immobilizer mod or grappler.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Mina Sebiestar

Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate

Likes received: 1,231

#44 - 2017-03-18 03:22:20 UTC | Edited by: Mina Sebiestar

Ersahi Kir wrote:

elitatwo wrote:

Ersahi Kir wrote:

3. Fix navy battleships (or any navy ship for that matter, but focus on navy battleships). They're terribly bad right now, and many of them are functionally flawed so they're worse than the T1 versions.

3. You meant fix navy battleship pricetags

No, fix the ships themselves.

Tempest Fleet - complete garbage
Typhoon Fleet - split weapon bonuses are bad. This use to have the highest damage of any missile platform at 8.25 effective launcher, but lost a lot paper DPS because of bad application. With the barghest sporting 9 effective launchers it's bad on every level. The only advantage it has is 125 mb of unbonused drones, but that doesn't make up for it being unimpressive.

Megathron Navy - I don't know anyone who would consider a regular megathron to a navy megathron as an upgrade path. You either go to a vindicator or a kronos. Even if it only cost 10m extra to get a navy megathron I doubt it would be worth it.
Domi Navy - just what everyone wants, split weapon bonuses on what is possibly the best T1 battleship. If they copied and pasted the bonuses from the T1 domi it would be top shelf with the extra mid, as it stands it's laughably bad.

Apocalypse Navy - decently useful. Probably the best navy battleship right now.
Armageddon Navy - no idea, doesn't look bad but doesn't get a lot of play either (my exposure to this ship is limited)

Raven Navy - It use to be a good ship that was a reasonable upgrade from a T1 raven. It's still ok, but the 9 effective turret barghest overshadows it now.
Scorpion Navy - it has a small window of being good for lower sp characters. Once someone starts maxing out enough skills it falls off hard to the golem, rattlesnake, and barghest.

The problem with these ships isn't the cost compared to T1 battleships, it's that these ships often fail to be upgrades to them.

More or less agreed with this

I did try some time ago to put forward change to typhoon fleet that would remove gun bonus that hull currently has for a drone one nothing dps oriented more like optimal / range / tracking or drone mwd speed so that drone bay can be utilized to the fullest.

Ship it self is hella fast having drones bonus for speed to close range gap fast kinda fits and ship would be more deadly no question about it without direct dmg increase or direct missile application bonus making it just another missile spammer.

I believe this version of dual/split weapons could work flawlessly another problem with trying to fix gun side of a ship it would stomp on a already pathetic fleet tempest and its okish tier one tempest as well i am just against going all missile route for diversity sake keep drones and do something with that drone bay.

But after arguments that it's a "shame"(wtf that have to do with balancing a ship?) for it to loose its gun bonuses and that it would be so OP that it would depopulate tranquility in 3 days flat i gave up on any kind or rational discussion and drop it altogether.

Proposing this in and around alliance tourny didn't help as well since fleet phoons were staple BS choice in there and we all know how true reflection it is being in jove space with pre arranged ships and teams in a range bubble how truthful that transfers to tranquility.

but i digress all empire faction battleships need to be looked upon.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Mina Sebiestar

Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate

Likes received: 1,231

#45 - 2017-03-18 03:31:46 UTC

Drake Aihaken wrote:

Mina Sebiestar wrote:

t3 battleships solve everything even universe it self.

I would like to think so, but as we've seen CCP is horrible at implementing new balanced features (T3D, Rorqual, Fighters). This isn't a criticism per say, but their track record speaks for itself. So T3Bs would become the new meta/doctrine and run amok for 1-2 years until CCP figures out how to un-f*ck them. During which time life will become miserable for everyone else. Meanwhile, wormholers everywhere rejoice!

Don't believe me? Just wait until these new CONCORD ships are made available (they'll be equivalent to a $400 investment, so if you think they're going to be subpar you can guess again).

Yeah wishful thinking on my part they are incapable of bringing in balanced content for one reason or another cant blame something i don't know anything of.

I am too interested to see new concord lineup and see what money / gift will bring to servers.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

elitatwo

Zansha Expansion

Likes received: 1,739

#46 - 2017-03-18 07:19:08 UTC

Mina Sebiestar wrote:

....I am too interested to see new concord lineup and see what money / gift will bring to servers.

CONCORD Marshal Battleship bonus per level:

250% ECM strength

20% less CPU needs for system cloak jammer

75% Energy turret damage

10% Energy turret tracking

10% Armor repair module effectiveness

20% less capacitor use for armor repair modules

12.5% stasis webifier effectiveness

120% stasis webifier range

1000% stasis grappler optimal and falloff

5% stasis grappler effectiveness

125% warp scrambler and disruptor range

125% optimal range and falloff for all electronic warfare modules

120% nosferatu effectiveness and range

40% neutralizer effectiveness and range

120% logistic drone hitpoints / warp drive speed, hitpoints and effectiveness

1200% remote armor repair and remote shield booster optimal range and falloff

15% capacitor use for remote armor repair modules and remote shield boosters

Role Bonus:

- Can fit system wide cloaking jammer

- A successful target lock reduces all resistances on the target to 0%

- Can fit CONCORD ECM

- Immune to all forms of electronic warfare

- Interdictor nullified

- Starburst enhanced

- Can fit infini-drive

- No stacking penalties for any penalized module

- Can only fit one ECM module

- Can only fit up to 3x heatsinks

- -75% damage and tracking for all weapon systems (not including energy turrets or drones)

Slot layout:

- 8 highslots (4x turret hardpoints no launchers)
- 6 midslots
- 8 lowslots

1000m³ dronebay / 125mbit

- 1200 CPU
- 25000 powergrid
- 24000 capacitor / 180 second capacitor recharge
- 15000 shield hp / 120 second shield recharge time (with 75/75/75/75 resistance)
- 15000 armor hp (80/80/80/80 resistance)
- 15000 hull hp (50/50/50/50) resistance)

- 200km targeting range
- 275mm sensor resolution
- 450m/s base speed
- 45 agility
- 12 target locks

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

A8ina

Pator Tech School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 56

#47 - 2017-03-18 16:57:32 UTC

elitatwo wrote:

Mina Sebiestar wrote:

....I am too interested to see new concord lineup and see what money / gift will bring to servers.

This will definitely solve the BS problem Shocked

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