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[BREAKING NEWS] Chaos Erupts During Caldari-Gallente Summit...

Author
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#41 - 2017-03-16 20:57:45 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
The way I see it, a population is free to govern itself any way it sees fit. If ,or when, the population grows tired, disillusioned, or angry enough with their government, it will be replaced with or without the governing body's approval. It's natural evolution. That being said, the longer a government can keep it's citizens happy, the longer it lives. It behooves a government to pay attention and respond with tact and a velvet glove when the citizenship complaints loudly.


The last time something like this happened in the State you got Provists running the show. Be careful what you wish for.

It's not a wish, it's an observation of fact. A government can't govern a people without their consent. All governments are a reflection of the citizen's will, and will be changed and replaced when the people feel it's needed. I never said the change would be for the better. Though, if the current Caldari government wants to stay in power, telling their citizens to sit down and shut up might not be the best policy. But that's none of my business.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#42 - 2017-03-16 21:01:32 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
The way I see it, a population is free to govern itself any way it sees fit. If ,or when, the population grows tired, disillusioned, or angry enough with their government, it will be replaced with or without the governing body's approval. It's natural evolution. That being said, the longer a government can keep it's citizens happy, the longer it lives. It behooves a government to pay attention and respond with tact and a velvet glove when the citizenship complaints loudly.


The last time something like this happened in the State you got Provists running the show. Be careful what you wish for.

It's not a wish, it's an observation of fact. A government can't govern a people without their consent. All governments are a reflection of the citizen's will, and will be changed and replaced when the people feel it's needed. I never said the change would be for the better. Though, if the current Caldari government wants to stay in power, telling their citizens to sit down and shut up might not be the best policy. But that's none of my business.


This just breaking... ...the loudest members of a society are not necessarily the smartest members of that society or even representative of it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#43 - 2017-03-16 21:32:45 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
The way I see it, a population is free to govern itself any way it sees fit. If ,or when, the population grows tired, disillusioned, or angry enough with their government, it will be replaced with or without the governing body's approval. It's natural evolution. That being said, the longer a government can keep it's citizens happy, the longer it lives. It behooves a government to pay attention and respond with tact and a velvet glove when the citizenship complaints loudly.


The last time something like this happened in the State you got Provists running the show. Be careful what you wish for.

It's not a wish, it's an observation of fact. A government can't govern a people without their consent. All governments are a reflection of the citizen's will, and will be changed and replaced when the people feel it's needed. I never said the change would be for the better. Though, if the current Caldari government wants to stay in power, telling their citizens to sit down and shut up might not be the best policy. But that's none of my business.


This just breaking... ...the loudest members of a society are not necessarily the smartest members of that society or even representative of it.

Correct. But the governments response to them is representative of the government.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#44 - 2017-03-16 21:50:23 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
The way I see it, a population is free to govern itself any way it sees fit. If ,or when, the population grows tired, disillusioned, or angry enough with their government, it will be replaced with or without the governing body's approval. It's natural evolution. That being said, the longer a government can keep it's citizens happy, the longer it lives. It behooves a government to pay attention and respond with tact and a velvet glove when the citizenship complaints loudly.


The last time something like this happened in the State you got Provists running the show. Be careful what you wish for.

It's not a wish, it's an observation of fact. A government can't govern a people without their consent. All governments are a reflection of the citizen's will, and will be changed and replaced when the people feel it's needed. I never said the change would be for the better. Though, if the current Caldari government wants to stay in power, telling their citizens to sit down and shut up might not be the best policy. But that's none of my business.


This just breaking... ...the loudest members of a society are not necessarily the smartest members of that society or even representative of it.

Correct. But the governments response to them is representative of the government.


I suppose. But it's only a few citizens who let their concerns carry them into civil disobedience and a bunch of outsiders who espouse a political system that the people have already definitively rejected who have a problem with things.

Remember. This isn't another Caldari Steel. They warned them that they were acting against their employment contracts. They didn't crack heads or shoot anyone, here.

An employment contract might not be a big deal in the Federation, but it's damn close to being our constitutional document in the State. It's not just the terms of your job, it's the terms of your citizenship.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#45 - 2017-03-16 22:41:55 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I suppose. But it's only a few citizens who let their concerns carry them into civil disobedience and a bunch of outsiders who espouse a political system that the people have already definitively rejected who have a problem with things.

Remember. This isn't another Caldari Steel. They warned them that they were acting against their employment contracts. They didn't crack heads or shoot anyone, here.

An employment contract might not be a big deal in the Federation, but it's damn close to being our constitutional document in the State. It's not just the terms of your job, it's the terms of your citizenship.

Just to clarify my stance on the issue, I'm not attempting to demonize the state for this incident, but simply offering my perspective on the matter and attempting to find an ever elusive line in the sand.

As you said, employment contracts are the proof of citizenship and de facto bill of rights for the Caldari people. What would be considered just cause for civil disobedience by the citizens of the state? As a citizen of any nation, I would view the matter of the quarantine as a serious enough reason to cause a scene and draw attention to it. I would imagine that the governing body would recognize the this and attempt to alleviate the worries of the people before resorting to unveiled threats of excommunication. (As a citizen of the Federation, I also realize that my government's attempts at alleviating my worry would be complete bull excrement, but I'd expect the attempt made anyway)

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#46 - 2017-03-16 22:52:15 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I suppose. But it's only a few citizens who let their concerns carry them into civil disobedience and a bunch of outsiders who espouse a political system that the people have already definitively rejected who have a problem with things.

Remember. This isn't another Caldari Steel. They warned them that they were acting against their employment contracts. They didn't crack heads or shoot anyone, here.

An employment contract might not be a big deal in the Federation, but it's damn close to being our constitutional document in the State. It's not just the terms of your job, it's the terms of your citizenship.

Just to clarify my stance on the issue, I'm not attempting to demonize the state for this incident, but simply offering my perspective on the matter and attempting to find an ever elusive line in the sand.

As you said, employment contracts are the proof of citizenship and de facto bill of rights for the Caldari people. What would be considered just cause for civil disobedience by the citizens of the state? As a citizen of any nation, I would view the matter of the quarantine as a serious enough reason to cause a scene and draw attention to it. I would imagine that the governing body would recognize the this and attempt to alleviate the worries of the people before resorting to unveiled threats of excommunication. (As a citizen of the Federation, I also realize that my government's attempts at alleviating my worry would be complete bull excrement, but I'd expect the attempt made anyway)

From the point of view of someone whose been rank and file before, my thought would be that, since it's already being handled, they don't feel that the disruption is necessary. And to a large degree, they're right. What good is making noise and causing problems going to do, save for harming the effort already taking place?

Just my two ISK, really. I do see where you're coming from.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#47 - 2017-03-17 16:19:49 UTC
These meetings between the two nations are always tense , due to the animosity and distrust they share for each other. This kind of breaking news was hardly surprising. Many on both sides, would of not wanted a meeting to happen in the first place. They are the most probable suspects for the leak. Which achieved its goal.

I was expecting maybe something little more explosive , when i heard this meeting was going ahead. Either an attack by the Fed on the State government or vice versa.

Perfect opportunity to remove some of your political opponents , blame it on the other side.

Bomb blast rips through Concord station, all Chief Executives of the Mega's attending the conference have been killed in the blast. No members of the Roden administration were present when the bomb went off !

It could of been arranged. We could have a new State Executive, CEO Lai Dai. Killed Mens Reppola.

Glory to the State.



Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#48 - 2017-03-17 16:38:41 UTC
You are walking on the edge of razor blade, Mr. Horn. Your suggestion sounds like high treason.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#49 - 2017-03-17 17:14:16 UTC
Whatever his politics, and intent, Horn has a point.

If such elements wanted to act, that's not a bad way to cause damage for minimal effort.

My question now is; Whose pulling the strings.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#50 - 2017-03-17 17:42:15 UTC
Agiri Falken wrote:


My question now is; Whose pulling the strings.


Was it the Mermaids? No, that can't be right. They have been feuding with the leprechauns for centuries now... but if that's the case, it only leaves the unicorns. But what's the motive, and how do we explain the presence of the gremlins at the scene?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#51 - 2017-03-17 18:14:50 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Agiri Falken wrote:


My question now is; Whose pulling the strings.


Was it the Mermaids? No, that can't be right. They have been feuding with the leprechauns for centuries now... but if that's the case, it only leaves the unicorns. But what's the motive, and how do we explain the presence of the gremlins at the scene?

Gremlins need no reason, motive, or explanation.

They simply are.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2017-03-20 00:40:56 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
The way I see it, a population is free to govern itself any way it sees fit. If ,or when, the population grows tired, disillusioned, or angry enough with their government, it will be replaced with or without the governing body's approval. It's natural evolution. That being said, the longer a government can keep it's citizens happy, the longer it lives. It behooves a government to pay attention and respond with tact and a velvet glove when the citizenship complaints loudly.


The last time something like this happened in the State you got Provists running the show. Be careful what you wish for.


What Claudia just described isn't so much a good or bad thing. It's just a thing that happens, and it's totally unpredictable. Populism can swing in any direction, Provist or otherwise, and it's not so much the illness as the symptom. Keep your governments honest if you fear Provists and other psychopaths. In the vacuum of proper civic authority, who knows what will spawn?

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Malthus Aurelius
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2017-03-21 05:25:31 UTC
Listen, I'll try and weigh in on this, but politics are outside my realm of expertise; My parents dug, I was trained to dig, I'm paid to dig, and so I dig. How the heck I got picked for capsuleer training, I don't know.

Fact of the matter is that people have a job to do, and you can't just walk off from it to go be angry. My supervisor's ticked me off more times than I care to mention, but I grit my teeth and do my job. imagine if a group of ventilation technicians...what's the word? Oh yeah, "unionize", and go on strike. While they aren't working, automated systems fail, and suddenly you got security having to evacuate residential area due to CO2 levels spiking due to excessive contamination. Well those union workers still aren't happy, and suddenly those same vents and filters now have an exponential increase on stress since the station population's been so heavily displaced, and now the filters are gonna blow much sooner, and contamination is going to build up much faster.

See what I'm getting at here? It's not a matter of desire, it's a matter of NECESSITY. Our jobs are crucial to the survival and comfort of our communities. If you have a problem, that doesn't give you an excuse to screw over your community. I just wish we'd let in willing outsiders more often. Our population's low enough as is. Frankly, if they're qualified for a job that some other idiot is too lazy or irritated to handle, I'd gladly call that foreigner brother. At least then i don't have to worry about suffocating in my sleep due to dissent.

If some holier-than-thou white knight...wait. Wrong idiom, I think the Ammar have that one.

If some Social Justice lackey wants to sleep on a station full of workers ready to jump at someone's throat, then that's their choice. It ain't gonna end well. I just wish the Corporate Heads would've done what I, and every other schmuck that earns their paycheck does everyday - Grit their teeth, and do the job they have to do for everyone else's benefit.
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