These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Rage with the CSM.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#41 - 2012-01-22 05:16:50 UTC
non judgement wrote:
I thought there were far too many people to choose from when voting last time. Highsec people probably had a hard time mostly because they were competing with each other for all the highsec votes. It would have been better for highsec people if there were only a few good highsec people to vote for. The nullsec people had it easy with their alliances to voting for them.


This is true. In my opinion this is related directly to what Spineker said. Most of high-sec people don't participate in an active way on the EVE-Offline community, so no one knows who they are. If i ask you to name 5 null-sec personalities that the entire null-sec population are aware of you'd do it in a hearthbeat.

But if i were to ask you the same thing regarding high-sec. i don't think you would even get one single name.


It is the main issue with the whole democratic voting system. People generally can't be arsed to do research on a proper candidate before casting their vote. And that is if they even bother with voting in the first place. And still, they feel entitled to complain when the people that end up elected don't share their wishes and their beliefs.

They think its everyone's fault but their own.


And before anyone says it, forcing people to vote is an even worse solution. Because then one million lemmings will vote on who has the better hair and the funniest catchphrases instead of voting on those who have the best proposals.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Spineker
#42 - 2012-01-22 05:17:28 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I want more content but I'm not prepared to leave the training area to get access to it.



Yawn
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#43 - 2012-01-22 05:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Renan Ruivo wrote:
And before anyone says it, forcing people to vote is an even worse solution. Because then one million lemmings will vote on who has the better hair and the funniest catchphrases instead of voting on those who have the best proposals.
Actually, since I live in a country where everyone over 18 has to vote. I'd have to say that it really isn't as bad as you make out. I'm in Australia, incase anyone is wondering. Not sure if it makes a difference but we don't have a really big population compared to other countries. Might not be any different if we had a larger population. Not sure why I think population makes a difference. Isn't it hard to get people to vote when they don't have to?

Edit after a few other edits: I should try to cut back on editing my posts so much after posting. It's mostly just grammar or trying to make what I said clearer or not so aggressive. Ugh
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#44 - 2012-01-22 05:26:45 UTC
Spineker wrote:
[...]What I am tired of is the minority dictating for the majority[...]


Spineker, i will make the same point once again:

The majority has the tools, the power and the ways to dictate everything in this game, if only they would unite. If there is anything history has taught us is that an united mass is unstoppable.

However instead of taking their fates into their own hands, this majority does everything but.


Instead of complaining to CCP in these forums and asking them to dismantle the CSM (which they won't, i guarantee you), go ahead and elect an all high-sec CSM body. If the majority is really the majority like you speak, than not even the entire nullsec+lowsec population could compete with you on the elections.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#45 - 2012-01-22 05:34:59 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
And before anyone says it, forcing people to vote is an even worse solution. Because then one million lemmings will vote on who has the better hair and the funniest catchphrases instead of voting on those who have the best proposals.
Actually, since I live in a country where everyone over 18 has to vote. I'd have to say that it really isn't as bad as you make out. I'm in Australia, incase anyone is wondering. Not sure if it makes a difference but we don't have a really big population compared to other countries. Who knows if it'd be any different if we had a larger population.


True, it depends on the numbers and the average education level of the population.

It does not makes me proud to say, but in the country where i come from (Brazil) a person can legally vote after his or hers 16th birthday. However, you are obligated to vote if you're 18 years or older. If you don't, you won't be able to graduate, you certainly won't be able to get a proper job and you won't be allowed to hold property.

In a country where the education level is sub-standard (by a fair margin) you find soap-opera stars, soccer players, lame comedy actors and talk-show hosts occupying seats in the senate. It makes me ashamed, but its the truth.

The more people you have in a group, the lower the IQ average will be.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Spineker
#46 - 2012-01-22 05:35:39 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Spineker wrote:
[...]What I am tired of is the minority dictating for the majority[...]


Spineker, i will make the same point once again:

The majority has the tools, the power and the ways to dictate everything in this game, if only they would unite. If there is anything history has taught us is that an united mass is unstoppable.

However instead of taking their fates into their own hands, this majority does everything but.


Instead of complaining to CCP in these forums and asking them to dismantle the CSM (which they won't, i guarantee you), go ahead and elect an all high-sec CSM body. If the majority is really the majority like you speak, than not even the entire nullsec+lowsec population could compete with you on the elections.



Right who's alt are you again?
Spineker
#47 - 2012-01-22 05:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
I am bored with the subject has no real bearing on my game because I think CSM's suck period. Nerfing the drake is a bad move it is almost dumb I will say yeah it is dumb. When I bothered to PVP I used real ships not a drake, however if the CSM represent the player base they would be against a drake nerf just because new players can enter the game quicker.

if that is not obvious then I don't know what to tell the tards. Epeen more?

Whine more Epeeners! Nerf the only entry level ship worth a damn good job! CSM are AWESOME! Right
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#48 - 2012-01-22 05:43:06 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Spineker wrote:
[...]What I am tired of is the minority dictating for the majority[...]


Spineker, i will make the same point once again:

The majority has the tools, the power and the ways to dictate everything in this game, if only they would unite. If there is anything history has taught us is that an united mass is unstoppable.

However instead of taking their fates into their own hands, this majority does everything but.


Instead of complaining to CCP in these forums and asking them to dismantle the CSM (which they won't, i guarantee you), go ahead and elect an all high-sec CSM body. If the majority is really the majority like you speak, than not even the entire nullsec+lowsec population could compete with you on the elections.



Right who's alt are you again?


Now i'm not sure if you're serious or just a troll.

Do you even know how to spot someone posting with an alt? Do you even know why someone would wish to post with an alt in the first place? Or you just see people telling other people to "post with main" in other threads and you think its a cool thing to say?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Spineker
#49 - 2012-01-22 05:47:28 UTC
I don;t care who you post with or don't you mean nothing to me on any level.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#50 - 2012-01-22 05:57:38 UTC
Spineker wrote:
I don;t care who you post with or don't you mean nothing to me on any level.


Well i may not mean anything to you on any level. But its too bad that it is you who does not means anything to the people who have CCP's ears. Right? Right!??!! How does that makes you feel?! Cool




Mad enough so that you'll leave the game? Or mad enough so that you'll man up, come up with a campaign and run for CSM election?!


I'm not a betting man, but if i were i'd bet on neither case. I'd bet that you will crawl back the the missioning hub that you came from and not do anything about it.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#51 - 2012-01-22 06:03:24 UTC
Nice to see people using logic and reasoning rather than baseless claims and temper tantrums to convey their arguments.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Tore Vest
#52 - 2012-01-22 06:19:35 UTC
Remove the CSM Bear

No troll.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-01-22 08:07:19 UTC
What happened to "the CSM are powerless CCP-sycophants"?

Half a year ago the CSM had - according to forum consensus - no power to change anything and did support CCP in trying to bring microtransactions into EVE. They were easily swooned by free flights to Iceland and whatevere little attention CCP threw their way.

Now they are the puppetmasters who control game design and try to sabotage Incarna, the NeX and all of high-sec...
Sicex
#54 - 2012-01-22 08:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sicex
CSM needs changing or banishment:

Have everyone that wants to contribute to the game sign up in a lottery to be a CSM member then have CCP draw 10 at random every 6 months. Less people/longer time frame, what have you.

Increasing turnover and randomness would give a truer illusion of representation at this point.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, maybe only having a convened CSM with newly elected members every 3 years for a couple of weeks until the repeated dissolution and 3 year wait until the next. Then give them a bit more power during those weeks, or maybe just a bigger megaphone to the true developers.

It is a bit disconcerting that you have to remind the EVE forum crowd that the CSM members aren't the developers - it was the forum crowd that voted their fellow players into such roles...

I think it's sad we can't vote for people that just want to help the game as a whole in all aspects... but I guess it is even more depressing that we couldn't count on a human being to be objective in their promotion of different aspects of EVE on such a council.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#55 - 2012-01-22 08:14:34 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What are the reasons behind the current show of Hate-CSM threads? I've read the minutes with a lot more care than most people have(Trust me, i translated the whole thing) and i follow their blogs (some of them.. not all the blogs) but i don't see anything worth raging about.

I have nothing against any of them personally.. In the past, i did have a few things against some of them being in the position they are, but they've all earned my respect after all the impromtpu meetings last year. Besides, i can say that at least three of them really deserve being there.



Come on, i like being mad. I want to get mad too. Show me where the CSM have touched you Lol


There are many of us that didn't see anything wrong with Incarna and welcomed it with open arms. And yet people rage quit, protested and threw massive tantrums about it.

Its all subjective to play styles and preference.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#56 - 2012-01-22 08:16:59 UTC
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Show me where the CSM have touched you Lol


With an avatar portrait like that, you seem like the sort of person who likes to touch others in certain places.



Darius III ( a CSM) touched alot of Incursion runners in their wallet area... HE'S A GRABBER OF TEENAGE HI SEC CAREBEAR ARSES! THROW THE PEDO IN JAIL!!!! Opps I forget this is Eve were such low lifes are voted into CSM positions ;) Then there's Mittans of Goons... he BLEW up CAREBEARS in GALL mining & took thier ICE cream :)
ALOT of touching going on with NULL SEC CSM's into HI SEC & don'tlook like theres a counterbalance...
Lets see what the HI SEC CSM did..... nuthin ain't one even though most of Eve is HI SEC.... CSM Reminds me of the closeted Republican Congress men that chase teenage paiges acouple years ago
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2012-01-22 08:23:24 UTC
mkint wrote:
First, the fuel pellets that are going live promote nullbears (to the added expense and hassle of anyone who runs a POS but is not a nullbear)
How on earth does it add expense and hassle for people in highsec?
Quote:
The POCO change buffs nullbear PI income out of the pockets of highbears
…except that the exact same tools are available to everyone, so it only takes income out of the pockets of the lazy. This is as it should be. More than that though, what does the POCO change have to do with the CSM? Afaik, it was a CCP suggestion that goes wa-a-ay back and which ties into Dust.
Quote:
Consider: to get sov, you need supers. To get supers, you need sov. And any ability for supers to fight the blob was taken away and reworked to promote blobbing supers, which only nullbears can do.
…except that you're laughably wrong: the goal has been to make super blobs less and less effective. They have not been reworked to promote super blobs — quite the opposite. So no, neither this nor the outpost changes “promote nullbears solidifying their empires”.
Quote:
nullbears wanting the "sh*t on WHers module" from the minutes, but only really stopped because there's a WHer on the CSM.
In other words, the CSM is working the way it should. So what's the problem?
Quote:
The nullbears "sh*tting on FWers" mechanic being added despite unanimous negative feedback from FWers.
…except that the changes have been suggested since well before FW went live.
Vyl Vit
#58 - 2012-01-22 09:10:34 UTC
Umm...rage? How is contempt "rage"? CSM doesn't represent anyone but their own narrow interests. Bloc voting got them in. Nothing can get them out. CCP dates them. Lesseee...some sort of issue here? I guess it's a matter of perspective, that's all.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-01-22 09:13:44 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What are the reasons behind the current show of Hate-CSM threads? I've read the minutes with a lot more care than most people have(Trust me, i translated the whole thing) and i follow their blogs (some of them.. not all the blogs) but i don't see anything worth raging about.

I have nothing against any of them personally.. In the past, i did have a few things against some of them being in the position they are, but they've all earned my respect after all the impromtpu meetings last year. Besides, i can say that at least three of them really deserve being there.



Come on, i like being mad. I want to get mad too. Show me where the CSM have touched you Lol


And yet a few hours later in a similar thread in this forum:

Renan Ruivo wrote:
I did, but to be honest i skipped the whole incursion discussion. Read the document while translating it to my alliance mates.. and since we don't give a rat's ass about incursions it seemed like wasted effort to read and translate that.

Same thing i did with the Wormholes, Factional Warfare and New Player Experience sections...


And yet this person considers to place an objective argument? I smell a rat, propoganda being used by this slave for his nullsec puppet masters I suspect.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-01-22 09:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
I still don't understand all that rage.
Eve has gone through some major crisis with the botched incarna release, a huge uproar followed with CSM and player unsubs combined leading to CCP refocusing the game.
The result was a never before seen shift in CCP's priorities, wich led to (and most people agree about this) one of the better expansions of the game.
Finally, changes that players had been asking for for years made it into the game. Hillmar himself announced that the wishes of the players should again be incorporated and that priorities will be shifted from Jesus-features into actually fixing the game.
So all should be well in New Eden...

Now why exactly are so many people crying about the CSM suddenly?

The most frustrating thing about democracies is that everybody gets the representatives he deserves.
Don't like them? Then vote for other people in the next election....

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.