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Rage with the CSM.
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Spineker
#21 - 2012-01-22 04:32:47 UTC
It was fun for a few people and that is all cool I have no problem with that. But when CSM's start being powerful enough to nerfbat ships and has influence then the kiddy game ends. I have always disliked them because they do not represent the majority of players in this game. They were a joke and we all knew it and that was fine it made some Epeens hard but when you start messing with people's game play then that is a bad thing. Don't even try to tell me the elections are not rigged to Nullsec and huge Alliances.

Get rid of the nonsense and let real game developers do their job. We don't need a power bloc of selfish alliances dictating the game. This is not a democracy it is a game and intelligence and game design come from people who design and develop games.

I don't even really care about the Drake it is irrelevant to me but the ship gives far more benefits for new players than a bunch of people crying they can't win. BOOOFUCKINGHOOO. No one cares if you died to a drake, skill up. Not to mention the hate of the majority of players such as myself who think your corporations and alliances suck. Epeening the galaxy over. I know I have been there done that.
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#22 - 2012-01-22 04:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Martyr Theos
If you think the CSM is a problem, wait until you wake up to THIS>>>

Who is this man? >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björgólfur_Thor_Björgólfsson

What is his relationship to this company and CCP? >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_Partners

What is the connection between Zero RMT Corps, RMT websites, and people connected to the above?


When you have figured this out, ask yourself why you are wasting your time and money playing a game that is this **cked up.


(Doubt this? So just how is it that supercaps were getting supplied to RMT sites without the collusion of Zero Corps? You can't build those things in high sec and you need a ship building array to do it. Do you think these things can get used without Corps knowing it? Logic dictates that the Zero Corps are in on this. Logic dictates that CCP knows who is doing it. Logic dictates that the investors are spicing up their rate of return by engaging in RMT.)

You guys are playing a rigged game. I'm not the first one to point this out.
Blink
Dbars Grinding
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#23 - 2012-01-22 04:35:20 UTC
^ lol wikipedia links. Tip, these make you look like a ******.

I have more space likes than you. 
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#24 - 2012-01-22 04:36:42 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
^ lol wikipedia links. Tip, these make you look like a ******.


and this makes you look naive.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#25 - 2012-01-22 04:37:00 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Get rid of the nonsense and let real game developers do their job.



Yeah... i'll just....


I'll just quote this part...

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#26 - 2012-01-22 04:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Renan Ruivo wrote:
non judgement wrote:


(quoting just to say that i'm replying to this guy, instead of the gentleman above me...)


Well, the point can be made that a lot of the bad things that happened last year had little to no input from the CSM at all.

From Sanctum nerf in march (while the new CSM was still organizing itself) to NeX pricing.


I' don't wish to go on a "null-sec vs high-sec" debate, but high-sec dwellers have little to complain about regarding 2011. High-sec dwellers have actually little to complain about the past 4 years, when compared to null-sec people as a matter of fact.



Truly though.. like i said i believe that there should be a better representation from wormhole and factional-warfare people. CCP should - for this next election - take into consideration that either by the very nature of the category (Wormhole) or by the fact that the category is fundamentally flawed (factional warfare), people who care about either of those things don't have the same voting power as those who play a different EVE. Which doesn't mean that they should go on without a proper representative (or representatives.. god knows there are too many nullsec CSM members in there already).


FW needs to be worked on so that it will attract more numbers. However, for it to be worked on it needs a voice in the CSM. And to get a voice in the CSM, it needs numbers to vote on a proper candidate. See the issue?!
I mostly agree with you. I was just trying to point out reasons why there might be so much hate for the CSM now. I don't have much hate for anything they have done.

There is a wormhole focused CSM member and, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't attend the last CSM meeting. I saw a post from them, stating their view about some of the things that were talked about in the meetings minutes. I don't think wormhole people have to worry too much. I'd be more worried about the FW side of things. But by the sounds of things, CCP has some big plans for it, in the next expansion.
LacLongQuan
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-01-22 04:41:20 UTC
check out C&P sub forum. you will see why bears, I repeat BEARS, are raging over CSM
Spineker
#28 - 2012-01-22 04:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Yes beacuse bears suck even if they are the ones who pay for the this game. Null sec and Low sec are dead in comparasion.

What we should start calling so-called elite Null sec is Epeens. Freudian thing

I am MAN ROAR, blobbing 10 players with a 40 player fleet is so ROAR
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#29 - 2012-01-22 04:49:08 UTC
As a side note, i'll cross-quote from another thread:


Rikki Sals wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.


They represent those who voted for them, which ended up being about 14.25% of active subscriptions last year.

Surveys or questionnaires originating from the CSM might be of some value, but again, the results of those will only reflect the sample of people who responded (and that's assuming respondents weren't just trolling.)

Atticus Fynch wrote:
Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.


What method do you propose?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#30 - 2012-01-22 04:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tres Farmer
Spineker wrote:
It was fun for a few people and that is all cool I have no problem with that. But when CSM's start being powerful enough to nerfbat ships and has influence then the kiddy game ends. I have always disliked them because they do not represent the majority of players in this game. They were a joke and we all knew it and that was fine it made some Epeens hard but when you start messing with people's game play then that is a bad thing. Don't even try to tell me the elections are not rigged to Nullsec and huge Alliances.

Get rid of the nonsense and let real game developers do their job. We don't need a power bloc of selfish alliances dictating the game. This is not a democracy it is a game and intelligence and game design come from people who design and develop games.

I don't even really care about the Drake it is irrelevant to me but the ship gives far more benefits for new players than a bunch of people crying they can't win. BOOOFUCKINGHOOO. No one cares if you died to a drake, skill up. Not to mention the hate of the majority of players such as myself who think your corporations and alliances suck. Epeening the galaxy over. I know I have been there done that.

All nice and dandy, who doesn't like a fair playingfield (at least until him self is sitting higher than the others, then this changes .. as always).

Anyway... CCP on it's own has proven several times already, that without effective feedback they're wandering off the path and do stupid things, really really stupid things.

So there we are.

Personally I think, if the CSM is a bad choice/path it will create a CSM-gate at some point and CCP will have to review this kind of feedback with a magnifiying glass and come up with another (hopefully better) thing.
But until then.. let evolution do it's job.


PS: the 1000 papercut threads (yes, there were more than one already and DEVs use them) shows what EVE would really need.. a public idea+bug-tracking system with some kind of ordering/voting mechanic that would help CCP to prioritise some part of their work. But that's F&I talk, so.. sry for mentioning it here.

PPS: nice thread Renan..
Spineker
#31 - 2012-01-22 04:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
I don't want a fairplaying field I want to be left alone.

Do you really think CCP needs CSMs to survive? Do you really think their change of heart and awesomeness in the last few months is because of CSM? Really? CCP is the epitome of survival in a bleak market because they do it. Yeah they made mistakes and admitted those mistakes. They have worked hard to make them correct and I think they are awesomesauce for it. Not because of CSMs but because people quit and because they are smart enough to adapt.

They got more from the forums than 50 years of CSM whining.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#32 - 2012-01-22 04:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Spineker wrote:
Yes beacuse bears suck even if they are the ones who pay for the this game.


Bears suck because despite being the ones that pay for this game, they don't have the fortitude to do anything to help themselves other than complain.


You want to be heard, bear? VOTE in the next elections. It is as simple as that. Then watch as nullsec dwellers cry because 8 out of 10 csm members are high-sec bears. Bears suck because you have the power to make that happen, but you want ot be handed everything instead of taking for a change.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Spineker
#33 - 2012-01-22 04:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Spineker wrote:
Yes beacuse bears suck even if they are the ones who pay for the this game.


Bears suck because despite being the ones that pay for this game, they have the fortitude to do anything to help themselves other than complain.


You want to be heard, bear? VOTE in the next elections. It is as simple as that. Then watch as nullsec dwellers cry because 8 out of 10 csm members are high-sec bears. Bears suck because you have the power to make that happen, but you want ot be handed everything instead of taking for a change.



The majority I see whining everyday is Nullsec and Lowsec explorers etc. Why do you think new Invul shields are in game in a few days. Hey it is cool I have not problem with that good for plex runners they were ignored for years. But the majority of players are in Highsec and they are not represented in this toxic CSM program or on the forums. Because when they get tired they just leave. Period they don't come here and cry they just go away. When a two month old player who is driving a Drake or something and can no longer use it for what he used it for yesterday he is going to get frustrated and leave.

The Drakes goodness was far out weighing its evil. I can kill a drake while drinking coffee and on the phone. Seriously people are that afraid of it? It is called an entry level ship and just because a few fleets of Epeens over use it is not a reason to nerf it.

The majority of highsec players don't even post on these forums because the Epeens insult and degrade them for playing PVE. Which is the most stupid thing I have seen. They play their game they don't want to be targets for you Epeens.
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-01-22 05:01:03 UTC
Only vote that really matters is the one you make on the account management page.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#35 - 2012-01-22 05:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Spineker wrote:
Yes beacuse bears suck even if they are the ones who pay for the this game.


Bears suck because despite being the ones that pay for this game, they don't have the fortitude to do anything to help themselves other than complain.


You want to be heard, bear? VOTE in the next elections. It is as simple as that. Then watch as nullsec dwellers cry because 8 out of 10 csm members are high-sec bears. Bears suck because you have the power to make that happen, but you want ot be handed everything instead of taking for a change.
I thought there were far too many people to choose from when voting last time. Highsec people probably had a hard time mostly because they were competing with each other for all the highsec votes. It would have been better for highsec people if there were only a few good highsec people to vote for. The nullsec people had it easy with their alliances to voting for them.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#36 - 2012-01-22 05:06:05 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Spineker wrote:
Yes beacuse bears suck even if they are the ones who pay for the this game.
You want to be heard, bear? VOTE in the next elections. It is as simple as that. Then watch as nullsec dwellers cry because 8 out of 10 csm members are high-sec bears. Bears suck because you have the power to make that happen, but you want ot be handed everything instead of taking for a change.



[...]But the majority of players are in Highsec and they are not represented in this toxic CSM program or on the forums.[...]



I want to know how it is that you quoted me and still managed to post something that completely disregarded everything i said in my post. Why have you quoted me then?

Quote:
The majority of highsec players don't even post on these forums because the Epeens insult and degrade them for playing PVE. Which is the most stupid thing I have seen. They play their game they don't want to be targets for you Epeens.


Oh for crying out loud, HTFU. Degrading insults are both ineffective and irrelevant. You let yourself be negativelly affected by what someone said about your beliefs then you don't deserve to be heard in the first place.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Spineker
#37 - 2012-01-22 05:08:13 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Spineker wrote:
Yes beacuse bears suck even if they are the ones who pay for the this game.


Bears suck because despite being the ones that pay for this game, they don't have the fortitude to do anything to help themselves other than complain.


You want to be heard, bear? VOTE in the next elections. It is as simple as that. Then watch as nullsec dwellers cry because 8 out of 10 csm members are high-sec bears. Bears suck because you have the power to make that happen, but you want ot be handed everything instead of taking for a change.
I thought there were far too many people to choose from when voting last time. Highsec people probably had a hard time mostly because they were competing with each other for all the highsec votes rather than having a few solid highsec people to pick from, which would be better. The nullsec people had it easy with their alliances to voting for them.



Which states "debunk" to start with. All highsec people are second class Bears to be cussed and yelled at. You make my point thank you. Alliances and Nullsec decide who CSM's will be, which was fine when they were not powerful enough to sway the game. But now they are being used to nerf things that don't need to be nerfed.

I wonder how many new people use the Drake to make Isk while they are leveling up SP? I bet it is FAR higher than the whine blobs with drakes. Leave them the hell alone. What do you want them to fly the Ferox? Which I did ratting in Null sec for months and it was horrible grind. It was painful wish I would have had a Drake in those days, it is a step ship that can get people into the game quickly.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#38 - 2012-01-22 05:09:20 UTC
Spineker wrote:
I don't want a fairplaying field I want to be left alone.
...

You know that 'being left alone' only works if there is a 'level' playingfield?

Spineker wrote:
...
Do you really think CCP needs CSMs to survive? Do you really think their change of heart and awesomeness in the last few months is because of CSM? Really? CCP is the epitome of survival in a bleak market because they do it. Yeah they made mistakes and admitted those mistakes. They have worked hard to make them correct and I think they are awesomesauce for it. Not because of CSMs but because people quit and because they are smart enough to adapt.

They got more from the forums than 50 years of CSM whining.

I indeed think that the CSM currently is an important feedback mechanic for CCP..
Do I think it is flawed and has lots of own agendas? Yes, naturally.. this is Eve after all.
Do I think there could be better? Hell, yes.
Do I think change comes by itself? No, humans learn by making mistakes.. so I'll just be realistic and will wait for the next evolutionary step.
Spineker
#39 - 2012-01-22 05:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Tres Farmer wrote:
Spineker wrote:
I don't want a fairplaying field I want to be left alone.
...

You know that 'being left alone' only works if there is a 'level' playingfield?

Spineker wrote:
...
Do you really think CCP needs CSMs to survive? Do you really think their change of heart and awesomeness in the last few months is because of CSM? Really? CCP is the epitome of survival in a bleak market because they do it. Yeah they made mistakes and admitted those mistakes. They have worked hard to make them correct and I think they are awesomesauce for it. Not because of CSMs but because people quit and because they are smart enough to adapt.

They got more from the forums than 50 years of CSM whining.

I indeed think that the CSM currently is an important feedback mechanic for CCP..
Do I think it is flawed and has lots of own agendas? Yes, naturally.. this is Eve after all.
Do I think there could be better? Hell, yes.
Do I think change comes by itself? No, humans learn by making mistakes.. so I'll just be realistic and will wait for the next evolutionary step.



This is a game not nature. CCP learned from their mistakes good. It was not because of CSM's it was because their revenue dropped badly.

I have no problem with the sandbox people I love it I think this is the best MMO in every regard. What I am tired of is the minority dictating for the majority.

No being alone is my own skill set not a CSM given thing I learned how to be left alone. However if you start messing with the new people game mechanics it is going to lead to trouble. It is not even hard to understand, you don't break things that allow new people to play the game because of Epeens whining.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#40 - 2012-01-22 05:14:26 UTC
I want more content but I'm not prepared to leave the training area to get access to it.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)