These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Alpha bots lowering the value of LP.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#41 - 2017-01-14 16:41:40 UTC
Time for a lock on this one...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2017-03-10 22:43:33 UTC
The LP markets I have been in have flooded with items.

I don't have the data to prove this is the cause but its pretty stupid that Alphas efficiently bot level 4 missions regardless.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#43 - 2017-03-10 23:39:53 UTC
It would have to be a lot of Alphas botting in groups since they're not easy to complete in a Gnosis.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2017-03-11 03:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:
Alphas can utilize top end industrials like Mammoth to bot level 4 courier missions.

I suggest restricting them to the first tiers of industrial ships (IE: wreath) or remove their ability to utilize them for level 4 courier missions altogether.

First of all, I don't believe there's actually a problem of Alpha 'Bot' Clones in-game.

Secondly, I highly doubt that a large majority of Alpha Clones are actually 'Bot' accounts.

Thirdly, if there is indeed Alpha 'Bot' Clones running lv 4 Distribution missions, then it's only a few accounts which wouldn't have any major affect on lowering the value of LP's.

Finally, if you actually do know for a fact there is indeed 'Bot' accounts in-game, then you should report them asap.



DMC


Edit :
I do agree that Alpha Clones should only have access to low level ships and even though the Mammoth is listed as a Medium Hull Class ship, it's much larger and can carry a lot more cargo than the Hoarder which is also listed as a Medium Hull Class ship. So after looking at the line of Minmatar Standard Industrial ships, I think Wreathe and Hoarder are fine for Alpha access and Mammoth should be restricted.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2017-03-11 07:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
The issue here is that it is one of those things that can be botted or done in mass by farmers. years ago there were 100s of industrial going back and forth through some lowsec system you could go down there and shoot t1 industrial ships till you got bored and they just kept trucking. Adapting to changes is one thing, adapting to botting is another. That said I have no idea what their impact at this point is.

I know there are some restrictions on alphas but I don't know what holes have been discovered.


You are old :). I was going to post the same. I can even remember that when you shot enough hauler in the correct timezone the bot owner/s appeared got very angry and tried to kill you ;). He even showed some "force" by using his carrier at the docking, didn't helped him much though.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#46 - 2017-03-12 15:32:53 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Finally, if you actually do know for a fact there is indeed 'Bot' accounts in-game, then you should report them asap.

I'd rather CODE just killed them...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2017-03-12 19:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:
Alphas can utilize top end industrials like Mammoth to bot level 4 courier missions.

I suggest restricting them to the first tiers of industrial ships (IE: wreath) or remove their ability to utilize them for level 4 courier missions altogether.

First of all, I don't believe there's actually a problem of Alpha 'Bot' Clones in-game.

Secondly, I highly doubt that a large majority of Alpha Clones are actually 'Bot' accounts.

Thirdly, if there is indeed Alpha 'Bot' Clones running lv 4 Distribution missions, then it's only a few accounts which wouldn't have any major affect on lowering the value of LP's.

Finally, if you actually do know for a fact there is indeed 'Bot' accounts in-game, then you should report them asap.


.


And how can I possibly know for a fact? Just because someone isn't answering my pms doesn't prove anything.

Just because you haven't noticed a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. Nomatter how small, botting is against the EULA and the spirit of fairness and it would be so much simpler to restrict alphas from being able to do them efficiently rather than rely on the player reports to clean it up. Even if you report them then what? They get a ban they can just make another alpha account.

Botting level 4 courier missions is the most isk an alpha can make per hour so of course there are people doing it.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2017-03-13 23:40:41 UTC
Cliffs for new alpha bretheren looking at forums for the first time:

>3 pages in
>op still has no proof
>RIP ops credibility in perpetuum
>press f to pay respects

All further posts should consist of "f"
Takh Meir'noen
24th Imperial Recon
#49 - 2017-03-14 01:48:28 UTC
All the various implants and skillbooks that I buy with LP to liquidate for ISK has gone up in value at least 20% and in some cases 50% over the last month. I'm not suggesting that means there are no bots, but it's informed observation that shows any bots (if it's actually happening) aren't driving the LP market down.

Maybe you're just selling something that is starting to saturate the market. Adapt.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#50 - 2017-03-14 15:23:59 UTC
Faction Warfare 'bots' routinely mangle LP rates.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2017-03-16 02:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: NofriendNoLifeStilPostin
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Cliffs for new alpha bretheren looking at forums for the first time:

>3 pages in
>op still has no proof
>RIP ops credibility in perpetuum
>press f to pay respects

All further posts should consist of "f"


Wow. Only an idiot would need proof of what is common sense. You really doubt that bots exist? Roll
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
#52 - 2017-03-16 03:47:56 UTC
Bots are sometimes hard to detect, easy to report when confirmed and almost impossible to get banned.
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#53 - 2017-03-16 13:39:47 UTC
F
Alasdan Helminthauge
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#54 - 2017-03-17 02:37:47 UTC
I don't doubt the existence of bots or somebody training their pet to do these stuff, but as far as I know, the LP value hasn't dropped much after the Ascension. I'd like the op to show some proof of the LP value lowering.
Though I would be very glad if CCP changes the distribution missions in a way that the agent gives you something with real isk value and tradable on market to transport, and require a collateral fee to accept the mission (about 100mil would be good for lv4 distribution missions).
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#55 - 2017-03-17 12:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
NofriendNoLifeStilPostin wrote:

Wow. Only an idiot would need proof of what is common sense. You really doubt that bots exist? Roll

There are players that are capable to set up Bots in EVE and I think I even saw a mining bot when I roamed the drone lands. Or at least it was someone using input automatization, was semi-AFK mining from downtime to downtime and had an excellent timing on his evacuation routines. But there is a difference in doubting there were cargo mission bots and doubting there were bots at all. Quite a generalization you did there.

I am sure there are no or only a few cargo mission bots. Because I did a lot of cargo missions to raise the standing for 4 alpha accounts, one per race. I checked the LP stores first to get the most ISK out of the grind for standing and I didn’t see anything that looked like a bot. I hardly saw anyone doing those missions at all. I have a cargo scanner on all my haulers to scan my competitors for the occasional extra stupid gank-worth autopilot and used them while doing the hauling missions too. Most haulers I scanned where doing contracts (you can tell from the wraps), some had regular cargo and only a hand full carried the typical low value high volume mission cargo stuff. I convoed some other mission runners or greeted them in local because I was bored, and they all replied.

I have a question: Why would a player that can set up bots stick to such low income as hauler missions are? From what I saw and read there are mining bots and market bots. Both can easily make a PLEX per month and far more ISK than hauler missions on top. And both are far harder to detect because there are bot-like human traders and there are bot-like human mulitbox miners the real bots can blend into. But I am quite sure there are no players running cargo missions the whole day for month or years. Cargo mission bots would be quite easy to detect because I haven’t heard about players doing cargo missions to no end. Have you?
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#56 - 2017-03-17 12:47:33 UTC
bot for distribution: accept mission, set destination, set destination, undock, warp to, warp , .. dock, get reward, undock.
That's NOT difficult to implement, you just need to sniff packets.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#57 - 2017-03-17 13:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
guigui lechat wrote:
bot for distribution: accept mission, set destination, set destination, undock, warp to, warp , .. dock, get reward, undock.
That's NOT difficult to implement, you just need to sniff packets.


Sure, but if you can do that, why would you stick to something that gets you only few millions per hour at diminishing returns? And turning the LP into ISK is a lot of hazzle too. Risk vs. reward seems to be a bit off to me. But I will look out for any signs of botting and convo people with mission cargo.
guigui lechat
the no fock given
#58 - 2017-03-17 14:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: guigui lechat
I'm just saying : making a distribution bot does not require much work and so the ratio LP/h/invested time is interesting, even though you think the sole LP/hour is bad.
When you farm, the ratio you consider is your ISK/played_hour ; when you create bot, the ratio is max_bot*ISK/bot_hour/dev_hour, because even if the sole ISK/hour is ten time worse, if you can launch 10 times more bots using it and it requires less dev time it's worth it.

you can easily script clicks on a window, the only issue is to know WHEN and WITCH click to perform - and for that you may need packet sniffing.

I 'm not saying there are (distribution) bots and I know of them. I'm saying on every game I know of, people made bots (I did on some - but most of the time I only create statistical anilysis tools), and every time there is a tedious activity, bots are welcome. This in no way implies bots are making changes to the market, but if you whole point is "we need proof of bots to listen to you", then you lack a lot of wisedom/knowledge.

distrib missions actually give a decent isk/hour for the amount of interaction required.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2017-03-21 14:25:30 UTC
solution: Add level 5 courier missions that require a freighter so you can once again outclass these vagabonds!
Alasdan Helminthauge
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#60 - 2017-03-22 01:19:52 UTC
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
solution: Add level 5 courier missions that require a freighter so you can once again outclass these vagabonds!


and they should all be located in low-sec like the lv5 security missions.