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Opinion: Stop telling noobs to do the SOE Arc
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Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#21 - 2017-03-13 09:27:06 UTC
Nikea Tiber wrote:



Re:
Career agents giving out fully fit ships as a reward.

Seriously? I don't understand how people can have a difficult time figuring out a fit. Ships have specific bonuses towards certain modules or weapon systems; make use of them, if you run out of PG or CPU, make some decisions. Between EFT, PYFA, and the various smart phone applications it is easier than ever to fit ships.


Yep, seriously. You might not understand it anymore, but I wouldn't be surprises if you understood it when you were new too. Because "Welcome to the game, sorry you can't even start to play it probably without one of this third-party-tools" is just a plain bad mechanic. Once a player has learned that fighting in EVE is a lot about bringing the right ship and fit they will look for fitting tools by themselves. I would teach them the concept of fits first, and THEN how to fit by themselves. And if we are honest, how many of the long time player make their own fits? Right, we just fly whatever doctrine, FOTM, Reddit or EVE-Uni fit does the trick but tell newbies how to make their own fits?
Ajem Hinken
WarFear Gaming
#22 - 2017-03-13 12:00:19 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Nikea Tiber wrote:



Re:
Career agents giving out fully fit ships as a reward.

Seriously? I don't understand how people can have a difficult time figuring out a fit. Ships have specific bonuses towards certain modules or weapon systems; make use of them, if you run out of PG or CPU, make some decisions. Between EFT, PYFA, and the various smart phone applications it is easier than ever to fit ships.


Yep, seriously. You might not understand it anymore, but I wouldn't be surprises if you understood it when you were new too. Because "Welcome to the game, sorry you can't even start to play it probably without one of this third-party-tools" is just a plain bad mechanic. Once a player has learned that fighting in EVE is a lot about bringing the right ship and fit they will look for fitting tools by themselves. I would teach them the concept of fits first, and THEN how to fit by themselves. And if we are honest, how many of the long time player make their own fits? Right, we just fly whatever doctrine, FOTM, Reddit or EVE-Uni fit does the trick but tell newbies how to make their own fits?

I'm a newbie and I never felt like doing the Epic Arc. My standings and ISK are fine - heck, I make good amounts of money mining by churning out ~20km3 or more of ore a day. I'm trying to get into exploration, but my corp leader hasn't come on in forever to refine our goods with maxed skills.

And yes, that number is no lie. T2 drills with drill upgrades.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6875494#post6875494 - Ship mounted explosives. Because explosions and Jita chaos.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#23 - 2017-03-13 12:15:33 UTC
I don't get your point. Was it that you don't need combat related toturials when all you gonna do is to shoot at rocks all day?



Ajem Hinken wrote:
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Nikea Tiber wrote:



Re:
Career agents giving out fully fit ships as a reward.

Seriously? I don't understand how people can have a difficult time figuring out a fit. Ships have specific bonuses towards certain modules or weapon systems; make use of them, if you run out of PG or CPU, make some decisions. Between EFT, PYFA, and the various smart phone applications it is easier than ever to fit ships.


Yep, seriously. You might not understand it anymore, but I wouldn't be surprises if you understood it when you were new too. Because "Welcome to the game, sorry you can't even start to play it probably without one of this third-party-tools" is just a plain bad mechanic. Once a player has learned that fighting in EVE is a lot about bringing the right ship and fit they will look for fitting tools by themselves. I would teach them the concept of fits first, and THEN how to fit by themselves. And if we are honest, how many of the long time player make their own fits? Right, we just fly whatever doctrine, FOTM, Reddit or EVE-Uni fit does the trick but tell newbies how to make their own fits?

I'm a newbie and I never felt like doing the Epic Arc. My standings and ISK are fine - heck, I make good amounts of money mining by churning out ~20km3 or more of ore a day. I'm trying to get into exploration, but my corp leader hasn't come on in forever to refine our goods with maxed skills.

And yes, that number is no lie. T2 drills with drill upgrades.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2017-03-13 13:57:08 UTC
Like most Eve content, the epic arcs are good ideas poorly implemented. Or I should say, half implemented. Connected and branching storylines should really be part and parcel of 'combat' PvE - missions, anoms/sigs, etc. Instead it's a concept that never went further than a couple very niche bits of content wholly unrelated to the rest of the game.

SoE is indeed an incredibly boring slog. I get the point of basically taking a tour of high sec and showing players how big New Eden can be...but in practice it's just a tour of high sec gates and introduces the new player to the joys of spending FAR more time traveling to find content than actually enjoying said content. You get nothing out of the individual 'flavor' of different empire space (because in practice there is absolutely zero difference) so making the player trek all over the map doesn't pay off. The lore involved is... okay(ish) but since it doesn't really matter to the larger game, it's ultimately disappointing to do an 'epic' arc only to be given a single choice to make, and that is basically a choice of loot at the end.

A double edged sword for sure. It has it's uses and benefits, but like so many things in Eve, seems to be badly implemented and in dire need of an overhaul.


Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2017-03-13 14:48:53 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Like most Eve content, the epic arcs are good ideas poorly implemented. Or I should say, half implemented. Connected and branching storylines should really be part and parcel of 'combat' PvE - missions, anoms/sigs, etc. Instead it's a concept that never went further than a couple very niche bits of content wholly unrelated to the rest of the game.


Pretty much spot on.

When they were first touted to us I was looking forward to them as there was so much potential for unpredictable variety in them.
Sadly ccp dropped the ball and it landed in a massive pile of dog-****


to be fair ccp are very good at coming up with excellent ideas
somehow, in the process of delivering those great ideas to us they end up all crappy and almost unwanted
whether it's a lack of clarity and communication between the various teams, or the introduction of the csm, it would be nice if ccp spent some time trying to fix things to bring those visions to actuality
Alincer Trossereides
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-03-17 03:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Alincer Trossereides
I'm not someone who enjoys PvE very much. However I did enjoy the SoE arc somewhat. The part that was boring and stupid was the long travel for no apparent reason. I came away thinking of how much better it could be. I actually learned something when I went against Dagan. I read the guide on how to do him and then I got in a Tristan knowing full well I wouldn't be able to kill him in it, but I wanted to see if I could kite him and not get hurt. Add ten or fifteen more Dagans, all in different ships with different weapons and it would improve the arc immensely. Reading how things work is not nearly as good as experiencing it directly. And yes I realize fighting Dagan is not the same as fighting a human being. A few scan and hack missions would also improve the utility of it significantly. Killing 30 rats that die easily and have no weapons to speak of doesn't teach anything. So I guess I agree that it was/is a missed opportunity to teach new players.

Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand.
Oraac Ensor
#27 - 2017-03-17 10:30:33 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:

The L1 SoE arc does a couple of important things.
A totally new player will invariably need to ask for help in the later stages.

How so?

As a totally new player I made a careless mistake in Burning Down the Hive and it took me a while to realise I needed to change my ammo to kill Dagan. Otherwise it was all fairly straightforward.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2017-03-17 17:35:56 UTC
I get the OP's point. Honest I do.

These days the way I answer the 'what next' question is offer pointers to the Sisters arc OR that they join a good corp OR that they find some path that has not yet been discovered. There is not 'right thing to do next' and the vets in the Rookie Help channel say so BUT the Sisters arc is there for mission oriented people.

Saying the Sisters arc is not right is fine. . . . but where would YOU send them instead? Mining? Just go 'do stuff'?

We are dealing with non eve players, at this point. Most of them have no idea how to play in a sandbox. Give them time but in the meantime give them something to do. That is kind of what the Sisters Arc is. Something to do until you figure out what you really want to do

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2017-03-17 18:27:42 UTC
By the way.

You can redo the SoE arc every 3 months.

Soon...

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#30 - 2017-03-18 02:15:59 UTC
Note to self, time to do it again.

I love the SOE arc. Yes, it is mindless warping around at a nexus of the four empires. Yes, it is more warping than fighting. Yes, after you do it once it is a waste time unless you need standing....

...yes...
...yes...
...yes...

but for me, the end 'joy' is having a new player ask for help to kill Dagan on watching them surprised at the ease at which I can help them. For new players, it is a 'OMG I CAN DO THAT TOO!' moment. I've brought Drakes, Machareials, ramped up Thrashers, and laughed as I wiped Dagan off the map.

With all the 'trust nobody in EVE' commentary out there, this is probably the one time you can. EMBRACE IT!

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Vigirr
#31 - 2017-03-18 09:17:38 UTC
The arc IS boring, isn't epic at all, the story is meh and the travelling is tedious. Yes it gives good isk and the standing gains can be useful but not every play style relies on that standing and it's a great way for newbies to get bored and quit early.

I won't tell people not to do it but I will try and offer a different voice and option whenever it comes up.
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-03-18 09:25:12 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Saying the Sisters arc is not right is fine. . . . but where would YOU send them instead? Mining? Just go 'do stuff'?

I tell them to raise an army, and conquer the Universe. Ambitions fuel progress.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2017-03-18 10:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Saying the Sisters arc is not right is fine. . . . but where would YOU send them instead? Mining? Just go 'do stuff'?

I tell them to raise an army, and conquer the Universe. Ambitions fuel progress.



I would like to raise a small community of closest friends and family. Some nice
corner of space with occasional exploration, hauling and chasing trespassers away.

Edit: And every 3 months we would do the SoE arc together.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Alasdan Helminthauge
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#34 - 2017-03-18 11:20:07 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
Yes, it is more warping than fighting. Yes, after you do it once it is a waste time unless you need standing....


Actually it's also true for the epic arcs of the 4 empires, especially for the Caldari and Minmatar ones. If you count the warping to get to the Guristas and Angel epic arc agents from hi-sec and to go back, you got another 2 "Yes".
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#35 - 2017-03-20 02:02:17 UTC
I agree with OP, I was told to do the SoE epic arc and I was on life support as far as interest in Eve Online went at the time; very critical as a new player - could have easily went to something else and not missed Eve. Lulu Lunette was my second attempt at Eve Online and would have been another forgettable experience: "No idea what I'm doing, game was too hard"

The best thing I did was talk in Arnon local and ask what just happened when I got an escalation to a Serpentis 3/10

Smile

@lunettelulu7
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2017-03-20 15:08:02 UTC
One thing is that many corps wants some sort of
experience before you join.

I tried to join Pandemic Hord in the very beginning.
Contacted them through the ingame recruitment
channel. They wanted me to do the SoE arc first.
Think my appliance is still pending.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2017-03-20 21:31:19 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Overall I think it would be great if the Career Agents and/or SOE arc would give out full fitted ships and would just explain the general concept. Like: This is a sniper fit ship, use it at 50+km, use the MWD do stay away form pirats. Go, go, go..



Couldn't that be abused? What about a caveat that one of the mission objectives and/or completion relieves the player of the ship too.
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