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Pirate Station Project
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Torves
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-03-09 02:44:34 UTC
Hello CCP and fellow players I have an idea for a new mechanic in EVE online and will like you feed back if you think it is something you would like to see or if you feel is isn’t possible do to game mechanics or feel it will destroy the playability of the game.


Project Summary:
Here is the basic of how this will work, I will list more detailed information below. Pirate station will span in EVE at the star of the month. As long as the station is online it will span Pirate Raid Fleet and Supply Fleets in the nearby systems. The pirate station is shielded and will not show up on D-scan or combat probs. You will have to build special locator probes to find the station. To build the probes you will need to buy a Locator Probe BPC for a Faction Store and get the required faction items by salvaging the flight lead/commanders ship from the raid and supply fleets.

Pirate Station
The Pirate Station will have similar combat mechanics to Player station exceptions the are always vulnerable and there is no brake in between shield, armor, and Hall. These Station will span in 0.7 to 0.1 Space and will be no closer than 4 jumps apart. There are 2 types of station Outposts (light Station) and Fortresses (Heavy Station)

Outposts
Will span in high sec (0.7 to 0.5) and should take about 20 minutes for a group of new players in cruiser with mid-level equipment/gun skill to destroy. The station will have the same dps limitation as player station to prevent veteran player form destroying the station in just a few minutes. The station will be equipped with 2 missile batteries (anti-cruiser), 1 energy neutralizer, 1 stasis webifier, 1 warp scrambler, and a salvage array (optional)
(optional) The salvage array can be added to salvage wrecks that are within 50k of the station and deposit small percentage of the loot and salvage in the wrecks into the station loot container that will be ejected if the station is destroyed. Note that play will get more salvage and loot if he does it him/herself. This can be added to actively reduce the number of objects in the system to help with server load and to prevent a fleet of player from exploiting the reinforcement system.
The station will have 8 defense platforms (anti-frigate) and a defense fleet of 6 to 8 ships of cruiser and below. When the station shield fall to 0 a reinforcement fleet will warp in the fleet will be just like the defense fleet and new fleets will arrive every 5 minutes. When the station armor falls to 0 heavy reinforcement will show up instead of the normal reinforcement fleets. This fleet will be 8 to 10 ships battlecruiser and below and new fleet will continue to show up every 5 minutes until the station is destroyed. When the station is destroyed, it will drop a small station wreck and a loot container.
Please note that a station wreck can only be salvage by a salvager and not salvage drones due to the size and the amount of salvage that is generated from the wreck. Salvaging a station wreck is done is station for small wrecks for every successful cycle of the salvager the wreck heath with go down by 25% and that layer of salvage is deposited into the cargo bay. The first two layers will have tech I salvage and the second two layer will have tech II salvage. The final layer will also give you the victory plate. A Victory played is a trophy that will have the station name, location, when it was commissioned (spanned in eve), when it was destroyed, what cop/alliance was involved, and who delivered the deathblow.

Fortresses
Will span in low sec (0.4 to 0.1) and should take about 30 minutes to destroyer for veteran players in battleships. The station will be equipped with 3 missile battery (anti-battleship), 1 energy neutralizer, 1 stasis webifier, 1 target painter, a warp disruption field generator, and a salvage array (optional)
Warp desperation generator is similar to the warp disruption field generator used of a ship but over a larger area. It has a range of 50k but will only prevent a warp field from being generated so it will have no effect on ship warping in and it only as a 1 warp scrabble strength and will no effect micro-warp drives.
The station will have 8 defense platforms (anti-cruiser) and a defense fleet of 8 to 10 ships battlecruiser and below. When the shield fall below 50% the reinforcement fleet will arrive with be just like the defense fleet a new fleet will then show up every 5 minutes. When the armor falls below 50% the heavy reinforcement fleet will arrive in place of the reinforcement fleet with a new fleet arriving every 5 minutes. The heavy reinforcement fleet will be 10 to 12 ship battleships and below. Logistic ships will show up with these fleet and repair any damage pirate ship. These fleet will continue to arrive until the station is destroyed. The station will drop a heavy station wreck and a loot container. The heave station wreck salvages just like the light but every successful cycle only does 20% damage to the wreck’s heath. The first 2 layers give you tech I salvage and the other 3 give you tech II salvage. The final layer will also give you the victory plate just like the light station wreck.
Torves
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-03-09 02:46:46 UTC
Special loot
A destroyed station will have a chance of dropping what I will call shadow tech. This tech can only be obtained by destroying pirate station. Shadow tech is equipped with a scuttle module to prevent it from being recovered. When this tech is equipped of a ship it will autodestructed if the ship’s hull fall below 50% and will not be in the wreck of the destroyed ship
Strip Salvager – is a special salvager that has a range of 10k and a 40% faster cycle time compared to the tech I salvager. This salvager will convert any loot that is in the wreck to minerals with a 30% efficiency rating. Skills required for operation is Salvaging LV 3 and Reprocessing LV 2. This will drop it set of 1-2 for outpost and 3-4 for fortresses with a 30% drop rate
Warp integrity field – this is a module that will make a ship immune to warp scramming for 30 seconds the module will burn out after one use and do to the strain to put of the brain a player can one use it once every 24 hours. The required skills are Warp Drive Operation LV 5. This will drop 1 for outpost and up to 3 for fortresses with a 10% drop rate.

Raid Fleet
A raid fleet will span with in one jump of it home station but cannot span in 0.8 systems and above due to strong Concord presents. A Raid fleet will warp in and attack any player who is an area for more than 5 minutes that isn’t near a station, player or NPC, or a jump gate. The raid fleet can enter the mission or dead space of the same faction (Serpentis, Blood Raiders, ect) but only the first area. Salvaging the flight leader/commander wreck will give you a scrambler code chip that is need to find the pirate station

High sec (0.7 to 0.5)
 Raider Fleet is high sec will consist of 6 to 8 ship mainly cruiser and destroyers two of the ship will be logistic ships and one will be the flight leader/commander. The fleet will be destroyed if the flight leader/commander is killed. The logistic ships will prioritize repairing the flight leader/commander. The commander will warp out of if any of the fallowing condition are met.
-both logistic ship is destroyed
-50% of the raider fleet is lost
-flight leader/commander armor fall below 50%
If the flight leader/commander ship get away and is not track down the raider fleet will be back to full strength after 5 minutes. Raider fleets can be located by using combat probes. The base warp out time for the flight leader/commander is 15 seconds

Low Sec (0.4 to 0.1)
Raider fleet is low sec will consist of 8 to 10 ships mainly battlecruiser and cruisers. 3 of the ships will be logistic ship that may for a repair ring between themselves. The fleet will operate just like the high sec version with only one change to the flight leader/commander warp out requirement. They will start warp out if 2 of the 3-logistic ship are destroyed.

Supply Fleets
Pirate supply fleets will span within 2 jumps of their home station. These fleet will have to be located with combat probes. Destroying the hauler will destroy the fleet. Salvaging the hauler will give you a faction navigation core which is need to locate the pirate station

High Sec
Pirate supply fleets is high sec will consist of one hauler and 3 to 4 frigates. The hauler will try and warp out as soon as any ship in the fleet is targeted. The base warp out time is 35 seconds.

Low Sec
 Pirate supply fleets is low sec will consist of a hauler and two cruiser and two destroys. The hauler will have +1 warp stab and a base warp out time of 20 sec. The hauler will start to jump out as soon as one of the fleet is targeted.

Finding the Pirate station
to find the pirate station you will need a special time of probe called a locator probe. You can bet a BPC for building the probes form the faction store of the local federation/military feet for 1000 LP and 10,000 isk. The times you will need to build is 3 of pirate faction scramble code chip and 2 of the pirate faction navigation core of the faction of the station you are trying to find and 8 scanner probes. This will produce 8 locator probes of that faction for example Blood Raider Locator Probes. Depending of witch scrambler code chip and navigation core you use will determine with faction locator probes you will get. The probe is use with the Extended Probe Launcher.
When you have the probes, you need you will need to go to the system you think the pirate base is in and launch the probes you need to use the is spread formation. If the pirate base is in system, it will show it in the can window at 100% if the pirate station in not it system then nothing will show ether way the locator probes will be consumed and you will need to prepare another set if scan the next system.
Things to keep in mind when trying to locate the pirate station is the range of their two types of fleets and where you have seen them. Nether fleet will be seen in 0.8 system and above and the station will be the pirate faction of the regen of space it is in so if you see a raid fleet or supply fleet of a pirate faction from another regen the station will be near the border of the two races. When you locate the pirate station you can go to the station and bookmark it so you can come back in a fleet. Please keep in mind that when a ship is on grid with the pirate station it will move after 24 hours one the ship leaves. The timer will reset if another ship arrives.

Bounties
Outpost – 50 to 80 mil
Fortresses – 100 to 150 mil
Pirate ships – bounty will be the same as you will find in mission area for same class of ship


Thank you for taking the time to read my idea. I look forward to seeing how you feel about this.
mkint
#3 - 2017-03-09 04:32:16 UTC
The idea is really out of the scope of what actually makes it into the game. See, we're not junior devs. If, hypothetically, CCP decided to use your idea, they'd boil it down to the basics first, figure out things like how it'll fit in with everything else, who it would serve, the business aspects of it. Then once they know the shape of the hole it would fit into, they'd throw it out and put together their own, that would somewhat resemble your idea but really be completely different.

So, as I take the shape of it as a whole, a thought occurs to me. Do you not know what Incursions are?

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#4 - 2017-03-09 06:54:39 UTC
No.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2017-03-09 15:17:28 UTC
You know, I actually really liked your idea for the outpost. I'm not sure I like these floating weapons arrays you've tried to turn them into, I really think every single EC and Citadel should require players in ships to defend them, but I love the idea of a salvaging array and a lowsec citadel purely for the support of PvP fleets.

I want to reiterate, I do not think any citadel should be a significant force in combat, just that I think they could be better engineered to put up in FW systems and e like and give your war machine a couple boosts.
mkint
#6 - 2017-03-09 15:49:33 UTC
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
You know, I actually really liked your idea for the outpost. I'm not sure I like these floating weapons arrays you've tried to turn them into, I really think every single EC and Citadel should require players in ships to defend them, but I love the idea of a salvaging array and a lowsec citadel purely for the support of PvP fleets.

I want to reiterate, I do not think any citadel should be a significant force in combat, just that I think they could be better engineered to put up in FW systems and e like and give your war machine a couple boosts.

I think you misunderstood what he's proposing. He goes into too much detail about minutia without really emphasizing the key features, which makes it a hard read.

He basically wants incursions all over again, except instead of a mom as the final boss it's a station, or from a more technical perspective, a NPC with a max velocity of 0m/s.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Torves
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-03-10 02:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Torves
I'm not planning to replace the Incursions system. raid fleet while not meant to be easy to kill but really aren't that powerful. One or two properly equipped cruiser should be able to handle them if you play it right. New player can test there skills such as damage management, target priority and tackling on these small NPC fleets. Player that are mining in belt will have to pay closer attention as the raider fleet can't be auto killed by their dromes while AFK. As for the station it will give players a chance to participate in station warfare with out have to be in a corp that is wardecked. that way players in the NPC corp or in small corps can get a taste of this part of eve that normally happens in nal sec.

the station aren't really weapon boats. with the exception of one or two pieces of equipment they hare set up similar to what can be put on player station the defense platform are nothing more then the weapon battier normally deployed around small or medium POS and are used to round out the defenses.
mkint
#8 - 2017-03-10 04:35:58 UTC
Torves wrote:
I'm not planning to replace the Incursions system. raid fleet while not meant to be easy to kill but really aren't that powerful. One or two properly equipped cruiser should be able to handle them if you play it right. New player can test there skills such as damage management, target priority and tackling on these small NPC fleets. Player that are mining in belt will have to pay closer attention as the raider fleet can't be auto killed by their dromes while AFK. As for the station it will give players a chance to participate in station warfare with out have to be in a corp that is wardecked. that way players in the NPC corp or in small corps can get a taste of this part of eve that normally happens in nal sec.

the station aren't really weapon boats. with the exception of one or two pieces of equipment they hare set up similar to what can be put on player station the defense platform are nothing more then the weapon battier normally deployed around small or medium POS and are used to round out the defenses.

It still has an incursions shape to it. How would you plan on solving the problems from incursions as they exist now from cropping up with this new variation? Things like bling fleets, farming, disincentivizing corp play, small and segmented community, etc?

Ok, my stance on something like this.

PVE obviously needs a revamp, from top to bottom. Recent dev/CSM comments make it sound as though it's rising in priority. I have my own opinions on how to future-proof PVE so it doesn't become another albatross. With your particular idea, I don't think you address the things that are broken with PVE, that the idea assumes what is broken is going to stay broken. However, with the idea summed up at its most basic, it has some promise:

-An incursion-like system to increase player engagement
-A system for smaller groups to experience structure warfare in PVE
-a system that makes mining more engaging through more challenging NPC spawns
-Beginner PVE that resembles PVP

When broken down like that, each one of those is a worthwhile component of a PVE system. I'm not convinced your specific proposal would be the best way to bring all of those about, especially if a bigger PVE revamp really is in the cards for the game. I'd look for ways to incorporate it into other existing systems. Your suggestion is basically building every single thing from scratch, from NPC authoring, to AI behavior, to changing probing mechanics, and so much other stuff. A massive project for what would probably end up being a very limited payoff. Now, if the changes that needed to make this work were going to get done anyway, so that the the investment cost drops significantly... well, I'd still be concerned about player participation, but at least it wouldn't be nearly as risky.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Torves
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-03-10 05:00:28 UTC
I understand your point and agree that this project will be to ambushes to be practical but thank of it as an end goal. say 6 to 8 years down the road. PVE system need work and some changes need to be made. maybe to simplify this to something that can be put of the test server is about a year or two it would be to try and improve the NPC AI a little such and Rate Jumping in varying numbers and strength. Have the AI capable of handling specialize role such as ship designed for tackling and support roles. Most of the module and fits need have already been designed and tested by the community. so you will just need to make the AI about to use them to a degree that will make it challenging without making it impossible for the new players.

Other than the fact that it would be too costly to up into development is there any element that you thing might be worth exploring?
mkint
#10 - 2017-03-10 05:22:14 UTC
Like I said, I'd still be concerned about player participation. If you balance it by payout, it'll be like incursions... over done, little variety, just grinding through it for the isk even though it stopped being fun. If you balance it by adventure, people will do it once or twice, then go look for something more reliable or with more variety, like they do with epic arcs. As part of a bigger revamp, it's workable, or at least certain aspects of it might be. As a standalone project, I doubt it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Torves
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-03-10 06:08:14 UTC
Player participation isn't something that can be controlled and grinding is part of every MMO in one form or another it just part of the game. The massive PVP in eve is what brings most people into the game but it take time to get the skills needed and the learning curve is like a sheer cliff. As far as the incursions you bring up, I was told I my skill aren't high enough so I have tried them so I can't really say much but it sounds like it was made for the older players to add a changing event to the game and it didn't go over well. if I look at why I wrote the project and what I was looking for from it. it would be this a system that would allow me to experience PVP like game play with more manageable rick before trying the real thing and the add some unpredictability to the game. I think the rats are too stagnate at times.
mkint
#12 - 2017-03-10 12:36:06 UTC
Torves wrote:
Player participation isn't something that can be controlled and grinding is part of every MMO in one form or another it just part of the game. The massive PVP in eve is what brings most people into the game but it take time to get the skills needed and the learning curve is like a sheer cliff. As far as the incursions you bring up, I was told I my skill aren't high enough so I have tried them so I can't really say much but it sounds like it was made for the older players to add a changing event to the game and it didn't go over well. if I look at why I wrote the project and what I was looking for from it. it would be this a system that would allow me to experience PVP like game play with more manageable rick before trying the real thing and the add some unpredictability to the game. I think the rats are too stagnate at times.

See, now that as a goal is something much more workable. A simpler proposal to meet that goal: rework incursion scout sites to be pay about half way between lvl 3 and 4 missions, adjust difficulty to compensate. It would have them doable in cruisers if the pilots are competent, battecruisers if they are not, it would pay well enough to attract the target group, it would require, or at least allow some PVP-like loadouts and tactics. It would have a pay rate to attract the target audience but not be the literal "end game" that other incursion sites are. It wouldn't cover probing, and structure fights would be too long for the pacing, but it would resemble small gang pvp. It would be an appropriate project for the team that did NPC mining fleets, and a little longer term, a complete incursions revamp would actually be a decent test bed for a broader complete PVE revamp. IMO, that's a far better scale, with a far better risk/benefit for the devs.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#13 - 2017-03-10 13:45:00 UTC
This idea is all about devs creating NPC's to create content. Eve is about devs just providing tools and space to players to create content.

So . . . no.

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-03-10 15:36:17 UTC
I wish CCP put this much thought into PVE.

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