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So...what happened to walking in stations? Bars etc
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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#81 - 2017-03-08 17:03:11 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I love as well that as soon as anyone suggests changes, they are told to go find what they want elsewhere, in anothe game.


This onyl happens when the 'change' suggested is unreasonable or bad.

I sometimes play world of tanks. There are a few fan made discussion boards for it. Sometimes someone will come in asking "why no Infantry", then start pleading for infantry. They are usually told to go play one of the MANY games that have infantry instead of advocating for WoT to be totally changed into something many of it's players might not like.

CCP tried walking around stuff (twice, Incarna and DUST). They may be trying again (Nova) but whatever they do EVE is better as a spaceship game.


Quote:

This isn't a healthy or sustainable approach to maintaining a playerbase. Look, when I said people were afraid of change that is natural. People have concerns their way of play will vanish, or whatever other concern. A good company would communicate and adapt to those concerns.


CCP did. Here, 4 and a half years ago.

Quote:

I was told eve was a sandbox, the ultimate sci-fi simulator, room to do whatever you want. Unless that want is something as little as using your characters legs. If eve is a sandbox, it's got to be one of the shallowest around.


Nonsense, being a sandbox has nothing to do with walking around. In EVE you ship is your avatar. This is not enough for some, but what I never get is that if it's so important, why aren't they playing Star Trek Online. Why play a game that doesn't have what you want while ignoring one that does?

For the record, I play EVE because I like a spaceship focused game and don't give a flip about walking around (or lore for that matter).
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#82 - 2017-03-08 17:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
Right, we have differing views here on what eve is then. You see it as a spaceship focused game, I see it as a space focused game. I also see the unique selling point that everything in eve is player run, and I can't find that elsewhere. I believe eve has missed dozens of opportunities to do the things star citizen is now doing, infantry battles, flying in atmosphere, walking in station, ring mining, asteroid mining, boarding... The list goes on. People have asked for these things here but been told 'that isn't what eve is'.

I may well move to star citizen when it comes out, but that is in no way a victory for eve. Eve could be everything star citizen could, with the addition of full player freedom and control of things like the economy or sov.

Edit: in your link the CCP employee basically says, we don't have the staff and dust is coming out soon. Dust could just as well have been a part of eve instead of a seperate game. They had the money to make it, so they surely could have made it part of eve? And the point is exactly that an undertaking like this would grow the company and enable them to do bigger and better things.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#83 - 2017-03-08 17:34:52 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Right, we have differing views here on what eve is then. You see it as a spaceship focused game, I see it as a space focused game. I also see the unique selling point that everything in eve is player run, and I can't find that elsewhere. I believe eve has missed dozens of opportunities to do the things star citizen is now doing, infantry battles, flying in atmosphere, walking in station, ring mining, asteroid mining, boarding... The list goes on. People have asked for these things here but been told 'that isn't what eve is'.

I may well move to star citizen when it comes out, but that is in no way a victory for eve. Eve could be everything star citizen could, with the addition of full player freedom and control of things like the economy or sov.


Star Citizen is just the next in line.

Everything you are saying, people said the same about *takes deep breath*

Star Wars: Galaxies

SWTOR

Black Prophecy

Jumpgate

Star Trek Online

Elite Dangerous

No Man's Sky

Dual Universe

Ion

Earth and Beyond (actually came out before EVE but was still supposed to 'kill EVE')

And more I can't remember. Now it's "OMG Star citizen is coming". Great, you will get to have fun with yourself and maybe 23 other people, have fun lol.

What is really funny is that people got all huffy about how CCP "better wake up" because someone was making a spaceship game show they better do "X" NOW! (X being whatever thing the poster was talking about that was going to take the game to the next level but in reality was just a personal wish from said poster).

So i've seen ti all before. EVE will still be here in another 14 years when it's "OMG that new game that you download directly to your brain has Avatar gameplay, CCP better do something now or it's lights out!!!!" Twisted
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#84 - 2017-03-08 17:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mr Mieyli wrote:

Edit: in your link the CCP employee basically says, we don't have the staff and dust is coming out soon. Dust could just as well have been a part of eve instead of a seperate game. They had the money to make it, so they surely could have made it part of eve? And the point is exactly that an undertaking like this would grow the company and enable them to do bigger and better things.


I've asked this same question to other WiS people before you and never got an answer. maybe you will be different.

How many times does CCP have to fail to do something before you give up on that and simply enjoy what you have? Will you be here years from now, super bitter like that Fazmarai person is?
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#85 - 2017-03-08 17:41:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:

Edit: in your link the CCP employee basically says, we don't have the staff and dust is coming out soon. Dust could just as well have been a part of eve instead of a seperate game. They had the money to make it, so they surely could have made it part of eve? And the point is exactly that an undertaking like this would grow the company and enable them to do bigger and better things.


I've asked thisn same question to other WiS people before you and never got an answer. maybe you will be different.

How many times does CCP have to fail to do something before you give up on that and simply enjoy what you have? Will you be here years from now, super bitter like that Fazmarai person is?


I don't think they have tried very much to make avatar gameplay happen after a first failed attempt. They have tried in other games, and actually plenty of eve players were sad when dust shut down. If it was made inside eve, it would be here as long as eve was. I have days where I'm perfectly content with how things are, and other days I think how things could be.

You're most likely right that star citizen turns out a flop, it'll likely be nothing like the promises (as with everything crowd funded) but I can use it to gauge demand. I'm suggesting eve takes notice of the demand for certain features and seriously tries to incorporate them without spoiling what eve is now. A player driven sandbox.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#86 - 2017-03-08 17:49:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
How many times does CCP have to fail to do something before you give up on that and simply enjoy what you have? Will you be here years from now, super bitter like that Fazmarai person is?

Apparently at least one more time...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#87 - 2017-03-08 18:07:14 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:

Edit: in your link the CCP employee basically says, we don't have the staff and dust is coming out soon. Dust could just as well have been a part of eve instead of a seperate game. They had the money to make it, so they surely could have made it part of eve? And the point is exactly that an undertaking like this would grow the company and enable them to do bigger and better things.


I've asked thisn same question to other WiS people before you and never got an answer. maybe you will be different.

How many times does CCP have to fail to do something before you give up on that and simply enjoy what you have? Will you be here years from now, super bitter like that Fazmarai person is?


I don't think they have tried very much to make avatar gameplay happen after a first failed attempt. They have tried in other games, and actually plenty of eve players were sad when dust shut down. If it was made inside eve, it would be here as long as eve was. I have days where I'm perfectly content with how things are, and other days I think how things could be.

You're most likely right that star citizen turns out a flop, it'll likely be nothing like the promises (as with everything crowd funded) but I can use it to gauge demand. I'm suggesting eve takes notice of the demand for certain features and seriously tries to incorporate them without spoiling what eve is now. A player driven sandbox.


I never said I think SC will be a flop. I think it will do great if they ever pull it all together, and I plan to play. Hell, i gave CiG money. And i plan on enjoying it for what it is instead of playing Star Citizen/Star Marine and constantly griping about what it doesn't have lol.

But the idea that a heavily instanced space dog fighting / fps game that isn't even an MMO (according to it's creator) has anything to do with EVE is silly.


EVE doesn't need to incorporate anything from anywhere else, my one criticism of CCP is that they need to remember why EVE survived as long as it has and get back to some basics instead of going after the low attention span crowd.
mkint
#88 - 2017-03-08 20:21:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:

Edit: in your link the CCP employee basically says, we don't have the staff and dust is coming out soon. Dust could just as well have been a part of eve instead of a seperate game. They had the money to make it, so they surely could have made it part of eve? And the point is exactly that an undertaking like this would grow the company and enable them to do bigger and better things.


I've asked thisn same question to other WiS people before you and never got an answer. maybe you will be different.

How many times does CCP have to fail to do something before you give up on that and simply enjoy what you have? Will you be here years from now, super bitter like that Fazmarai person is?


I don't think they have tried very much to make avatar gameplay happen after a first failed attempt. They have tried in other games, and actually plenty of eve players were sad when dust shut down. If it was made inside eve, it would be here as long as eve was. I have days where I'm perfectly content with how things are, and other days I think how things could be.

You're most likely right that star citizen turns out a flop, it'll likely be nothing like the promises (as with everything crowd funded) but I can use it to gauge demand. I'm suggesting eve takes notice of the demand for certain features and seriously tries to incorporate them without spoiling what eve is now. A player driven sandbox.


I never said I think SC will be a flop. I think it will do great if they ever pull it all together, and I plan to play. Hell, i gave CiG money. And i plan on enjoying it for what it is instead of playing Star Citizen/Star Marine and constantly griping about what it doesn't have lol.

But the idea that a heavily instanced space dog fighting / fps game that isn't even an MMO (according to it's creator) has anything to do with EVE is silly.


EVE doesn't need to incorporate anything from anywhere else, my one criticism of CCP is that they need to remember why EVE survived as long as it has and get back to some basics instead of going after the low attention span crowd.


The funny thing is, if we're playing 2-game mashup here (EVE + WiS) almost ANY other mashup sounds more fun: EVE + pong. Awesome. EVE + minesweeper. Awesome. EVE + tetris. Awesome. EVE + race cars. Hells yeah. EVE + 2nd life? Oh gawd no, that sounds tedious.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#89 - 2017-03-08 21:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Who said it would be completely like Second Life? Of course it could have had some elements you could customize, but social and, whats important, further developments like combat and exploration would have made it stand out in the industry. We have all seen what other companies are doing right? They have done that after seeing it does indeed have potential.

For EVE? Too late perhaps. CCP seems to be fixed on keeping the beehive buzzing, when the hornets are at the doors.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#90 - 2017-03-08 21:24:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Right, we have differing views here on what eve is then. You see it as a spaceship focused game, I see it as a space focused game. I also see the unique selling point that everything in eve is player run, and I can't find that elsewhere. I believe eve has missed dozens of opportunities to do the things star citizen is now doing, infantry battles, flying in atmosphere, walking in station, ring mining, asteroid mining, boarding... The list goes on. People have asked for these things here but been told 'that isn't what eve is'.

I may well move to star citizen when it comes out, but that is in no way a victory for eve. Eve could be everything star citizen could, with the addition of full player freedom and control of things like the economy or sov.


Star Citizen is just the next in line.

Everything you are saying, people said the same about *takes deep breath*

Star Wars: Galaxies

SWTOR

Black Prophecy

Jumpgate

Star Trek Online

Elite Dangerous

No Man's Sky

Dual Universe

Ion

Earth and Beyond (actually came out before EVE but was still supposed to 'kill EVE')

And more I can't remember. Now it's "OMG Star citizen is coming". Great, you will get to have fun with yourself and maybe 23 other people, have fun lol.

What is really funny is that people got all huffy about how CCP "better wake up" because someone was making a spaceship game show they better do "X" NOW! (X being whatever thing the poster was talking about that was going to take the game to the next level but in reality was just a personal wish from said poster).

So i've seen ti all before. EVE will still be here in another 14 years when it's "OMG that new game that you download directly to your brain has Avatar gameplay, CCP better do something now or it's lights out!!!!" Twisted




I would like to point that I am not asking CCP to do anything. They've had more than 5 years to diversify EVE and spread it into a larger niche, and currently the space genre is large enough that nobody wants or cares about EVE's little niche.

So in a way, EVE is in no danger of being overtaken or replaced. It is just being sidetracked, quietly pushed to a harmless corner, like a grumpy old glory of a time past and gone.

There was a time when it was "EVE vs the world". Now it's "EVE what?".

It wasn't necessary to end like this, but it's what CCP achieved. Old, weird and irrelevant, this is EVE 2017 for you.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#91 - 2017-03-09 00:11:37 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I love as well that as soon as anyone suggests changes, they are told to go find what they want elsewhere, in anothe game. This isn't a healthy or sustainable approach to maintaining a playerbase. Look, when I said people were afraid of change that is natural. People have concerns their way of play will vanish, or whatever other concern. A good company would communicate and adapt to those concerns.

I was told eve was a sandbox, the ultimate sci-fi simulator, room to do whatever you want. Unless that want is something as little as using your characters legs. If eve is a sandbox, it's got to be one of the shallowest around.



last time new players were told to go play another game WoW increased in a major number of players and eve online fell even lower than anticipated.. i guess those guys that draw that straw like those nights of just 14k players online in a no content providing game..

but hey.. we got killmarks added to ships.. o.O?
Ember Niagara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#92 - 2017-03-09 01:04:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ember Niagara
WiS could never be just like Second Life, it wouldn't fit. SL is the antithesis of PvP, a universe of law and order, homesteads and moderators, where wars and asset losses do not exist and petty conflicts only erupt over land ownership, admin power trips, or occasional hacker-induced genital bombardments. Higher-than-highsec: All is consensual - any "danger," make-pretend.

Sure, some other games feel kinda like EVE - anarchic Minecraft servers, DayZ, Dark Souls - but I want to engage with Tranquility in new ways. I dream of running in stations, of deadly CONCORD police androids, of guns, knives, deaths and cloning alcoves much like System Shock 2 or BioShock. I dream of looking over my shoulder as an enemy player enters the cantina (Han shot first). I hope Nova might replace WiS, with a safe zone for your hangar and dangerous corridors deeper in the station...

All MMORPGs have downtime. Rather than shipspin I'd rather spend that time at least "hitting a space bar," cracking sculpted goofy faces at my corpmates while Male Exotic Dancers poledance, sharing drinks with my enemies before undocking and blasting them ... even if WiS never had guns, it could be like a digital FanFest - a neutral place to goof off, decompress, not take things so seriously.

If you don't want to do that, fine. Thankfully, WiS is optional in its current, sluggish form. Considering CCP has enough resources and attention span to maintain development of Valkyrie, Gunjack, Nova, and EVE simultaneously, I think at least finishing WiS as intended might be possible one day. I quite often see people complaining that they're bored while they ship spin. A fast-paced WiS might chase away that boredom.
Hazel TuckerTS
Doomheim
#93 - 2017-03-09 01:27:38 UTC
I would have a bdsm dungeon.

kiss kiss bang bang
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#94 - 2017-03-09 01:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Avaelica Kuershin
Nothing to see here, internet hates me.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#95 - 2017-03-09 01:50:01 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


I would like to point that I am not asking CCP to do anything. They've had more than 5 years to diversify EVE and spread it into a larger niche, and currently the space genre is large enough that nobody wants or cares about EVE's little niche.

So in a way, EVE is in no danger of being overtaken or replaced. It is just being sidetracked, quietly pushed to a harmless corner, like a grumpy old glory of a time past and gone.

There was a time when it was "EVE vs the world". Now it's "EVE what?".

It wasn't necessary to end like this, but it's what CCP achieved. Old, weird and irrelevant, this is EVE 2017 for you.


Seems like I'm logged in to EVE online right now. I notice you are still here too despite your promises to the contrary.

So much for you acting like it's gone. You never did understand that your unhappiness about EVE was internal to you, nothing to do with the game. You just never were part of the target audience, no matter how much you thought people like you should have been them.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#96 - 2017-03-09 05:31:09 UTC
I dunno about Fazmari but I'm only logged in because alphas can post to the forums, and I like the discussions here. I also played eve for 7 years so have a warm place in my heart for it. I'd also like to see it grow into something more, so I can once again justify spending money on it.

Unhappiness in general is internal, that's why it is an emotion. However that doesn't somehow make it meaningless. You say that people who want more than just spaceship combat are not eves target audience, well if you hadn't noticed CCP are a small studio severely limited in ambition by their scale. Expanding the game to a broader market means more revenue and more staff leading to a growing company. CCPs current strategy can at best stagnate, and with the help of people like yourself Jenn, telling others to go play other games, the company would shrink.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#97 - 2017-03-09 07:46:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


I would like to point that I am not asking CCP to do anything. They've had more than 5 years to diversify EVE and spread it into a larger niche, and currently the space genre is large enough that nobody wants or cares about EVE's little niche.

So in a way, EVE is in no danger of being overtaken or replaced. It is just being sidetracked, quietly pushed to a harmless corner, like a grumpy old glory of a time past and gone.

There was a time when it was "EVE vs the world". Now it's "EVE what?".

It wasn't necessary to end like this, but it's what CCP achieved. Old, weird and irrelevant, this is EVE 2017 for you.


Seems like I'm logged in to EVE online right now. I notice you are still here too despite your promises to the contrary.

So much for you acting like it's gone. You never did understand that your unhappiness about EVE was internal to you, nothing to do with the game. You just never were part of the target audience, no matter how much you thought people like you should have been them.


Alphas have access to the forums. As my other signature reads, "Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you".

Even after 8 years, I still have some forum buddies (none in space as far as I know, thanks to CCP's inappropiate way of understanding watchlist privacy), and as has been said many times, reading -and writing- about EVE is funnier than actually playing it. Alpha access to the forums is "all the fun for no sum".

As for "target audience", that's relative. EVE's history looks like the "target audience" is whatever has stuck to the wall after slinging noobs at it for 13 years...

"Sir, that tomato din't splashed and slipped to the ground after hitting the wall" "Alright, then that is our target audience! Now sling more tomatos against the wall until we find some more!"

Sssure. Roll
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#98 - 2017-03-09 08:01:37 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I dunno about Fazmari but I'm only logged in because alphas can post to the forums, and I like the discussions here. I also played eve for 7 years so have a warm place in my heart for it. I'd also like to see it grow into something more, so I can once again justify spending money on it.

Unhappiness in general is internal, that's why it is an emotion. However that doesn't somehow make it meaningless. You say that people who want more than just spaceship combat are not eves target audience, well if you hadn't noticed CCP are a small studio severely limited in ambition by their scale. Expanding the game to a broader market means more revenue and more staff leading to a growing company. CCPs current strategy can at best stagnate, and with the help of people like yourself Jenn, telling others to go play other games, the company would shrink.


Well, the main diference between you and me, aside of me being a bit older as EVE player, is that in my opinion EVE and thus CCP are shrinking since CCP Seagull had her plan approved and CCP began devoting development resources to a minority of the customer base, which probably Jenn would call the "target audience" but any acocuntant wouid call "that 60 % of our income we shouldn't be disregarding so merrily no matter how much revenue per customer we can squeeze with microtransactions".

Apparently some weeks ago Hilmar boasted about how EVE's and CCP's numbers were best than ever in 2016, but well, IMO that just means that he and some investors are looking for bailing out of the company while they can, that is, right this year and while they can find a greater fool willing to pay a few hundred millions for CCP's VR technologies. EVE's role in the deal is to look like a healthy cash cow despite the funny things going on with PCU and the even funnier comparison between what kind of players are more abundant and who gets the lion's share of the effort of long term retention and future development.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#99 - 2017-03-09 08:51:41 UTC
Mackenzie Hawkwood wrote:
short answer NO.

Never going to happen, CCP got burnt with the response to Failcana and have moved on to other things.
The Spaceship Barbies keep these threads happening at least once a month and the answer is still NO.


and yet they keep releasing more clothes....

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#100 - 2017-03-09 09:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I dunno about Fazmari but I'm only logged in because alphas can post to the forums, and I like the discussions here. I also played eve for 7 years so have a warm place in my heart for it. I'd also like to see it grow into something more, so I can once again justify spending money on it.


So you don't play the game, but you'd "like to see it grow into something more". That's the entire point I make in these discussions, there are people who cannot be happy with what's in front of them, so they always advocate for more/ change with the idea that it can be turned into something they like.

This ignores 2 things, .A. it ignores the people who actually CAN enjoy a thing for what it is and .B. it's a flase idea than more/change is going to make people happy, because if one can't be happy now they probably won't be in the future.

It's a recurring theme in my real life. I've been surrounded by malcontented misfits who are full of gripes while at the same time I've enjoyed most of the situations I've found myself in (ie they grumbled about school, I like school, they grumbled about the job and the bosses, I like the job and the current bosses aren't as bad as some I've had, they grumble about the women or men they choose to marry while my wife and I are getting along great and taking weekend road trips etc etc).

Then I come to a forum about the coolest virtual experience I ever had (one that sometimes distracts me at work even after 9 and a half years, at lunch I've been known to tinker with EFT), and I find more gripy people who could be enjoying their lives and playing video games they like but who would rather spend that time crapping up a forum of a game they dislike made by and Icelandic company they despise (that last bit is more about Fazmarai than you Mieyli).

It's freaking crazy if you ask me. Life is short, despite all the sci-fi ideas around the likely hood is that we are all going to die, and personally I'll be damned if my tombstone reads "here lies Jenn, boy did she have a good point about how much EVE sucked and was a disappointment" lol.

Quote:

Unhappiness in general is internal, that's why it is an emotion. However that doesn't somehow make it meaningless. You say that people who want more than just spaceship combat are not eves target audience, well if you hadn't noticed CCP are a small studio severely limited in ambition by their scale. Expanding the game to a broader market means more revenue and more staff leading to a growing company. CCPs current strategy can at best stagnate, and with the help of people like yourself Jenn, telling others to go play other games, the company would shrink.


People have been saying that for 14 years. Twisted people like Fazmarai WANT that to happen, as they cannot stand the idea of something not personally tailored to their wish's surviving for a long time. This is why people like this shout warnings about new games, loudly leave EVE then find an excuse to slink right back after they realize that the EVE killer game they were touting sucks. All the while folks like me are playing EVE and having fun, and they just can't stand that.


This will happen with SC after people find it's a cool game but limited in scope compared to EVE. And they'll make some excuse about how they are just here because they are an alpha or they have some forum friends lol. But the truth is that EVE is a 'Forever' type of game, and the people who loudly leave will always come home, because those are the people who need something to gripe about...