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Armor Tanking, Am I doing it wrong?

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MoonDragn
ZiTek
#21 - 2017-03-07 16:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: MoonDragn
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank.


My rep is fine when there are only a few hitting me, but they should not be hitting me for 150-200+ a hit, I saw a video on the same mission and the guy was getting hit for 25-30 dmg with less tank than I've got.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#22 - 2017-03-07 16:16:21 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
MoonDragn wrote:
[Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones.

Yes, they are stacking penalized - which is why you want a single T2 version. Rate of fire will trump damage and is the cheaper option. And no, you are mistaken if you think having them is increasing your DPS by 400...


Maybe not, but they are tech II rigs, and the fittings tab shows 650ish dps without them and 1000+ dps with.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#23 - 2017-03-07 16:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
My rep is fine when there are only a few hitting me, but they should not be hitting me for 150-200+ a hit, I saw a video on the same mission and the guy was getting hit for 25-30 dmg with less tank than I've got.

I'm going to theorize that perhaps some of your core skills maybe aren't where they need to be. I can get well over 1200 DPS utilizing Conflag on my Paladin fit, and I rarely need to utilize more than a single Deadspace larger armor repairer. So the short answer to your question is: Yes, you are doing it (something) wrong.

MoonDragn wrote:
Maybe not, but they are tech II rigs, and the fittings tab shows 650ish dps without them and 1000+ dps with

Not a chance in h*ll, sorry. From Pyfa, V skills, no implants and T2 Mega Pulse Lasers with Conflag L:
* Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks: 1083 DPS
• Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 2x T1 Large Energy Collision Accelerator: 1126 DPS (+43 DPS or +3.9%)
• Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 1x T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator: 1171 DPS (+88 DPS or +8.1%)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#24 - 2017-03-07 16:27:04 UTC  |  Edited by: MoonDragn
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

I'm going to theorize that perhaps some of your core skills maybe aren't where they need to be. I can get well over 1200 DPS utilizing Conflag on my Paladin fit, and I rarely need to utilize more than a single Deadspace larger armor repairer. So the short answer to your question is: Yes, you are doing it wrong.



But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me?

Every other level 4 mission I've been in they barely hit me for 50 dmg if ever at the most. Most of the time I don't even need to turn on t he repper.

I don't know which core skill I'm missing... Here are my laser weapon skills:

Gunnery V
Large Energy Turret V
Large Pulse Laser Specialization IV
Controlled Bursts V
Motion Prediction V
Rapid Firing V
Sharpshooter V
Surgical Strike V
Trajectory Analysis V
Advanced Weapon Upgrades V

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Not a chance in h*ll, sorry. From Pyfa, V skills, no implants and T2 Mega Pulse Lasers with Conflag L:
* Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks: 1083 DPS
• Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 2x T1 Large Energy Collision Accelerator: 1126 DPS (+43 DPS or +3.9%)
• Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 1x T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator: 1171 DPS (+88 DPS or +8.1%)


Hmm, I'll post my dps screenshot tonight if I can. I might have to pull out the collision accelerators to put in the burst aerator like you said. Also I think I might only have 1 accelerator, the other one is the aerator.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#25 - 2017-03-07 16:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me?

Because the Assault mission is very hard hitting, and if you manage to activate all the triggers you can end up with close to 3000 incoming DPS. eve-survival.org is your friend - you may want to check out some of the missions beforehand.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#26 - 2017-03-07 16:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: MoonDragn
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
MoonDragn wrote:
But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me?

Because the Assault mission is very hard hitting, and if you hit all the triggers you can end up with close to 3000 incoming DPS. eve-survival.org is your friend - you may want to check out some of the missions beforehand.



Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference.

BTW, I only just came back to EVE again a few weeks ago. Been playing off and on for 13 years now. Stuff changed so much now than when it was 13 years ago.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#27 - 2017-03-07 16:36:52 UTC
MoonDragn wrote:
Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference.

Well, there are a few others... Damsel, the 'Enemy' series, Pirate Invasion, Gone Beserk...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#28 - 2017-03-07 16:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: MoonDragn
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
MoonDragn wrote:
Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference.

Well, there are a few others... Damsel, the 'Enemy' series, Pirate Invasion, Gone Beserk...



thanks I'll keep that in mind. In the mean time, I think I'll carry an extra repper to keep up with the damage until my maurader skill gets to IV. I could just skip everything and go to the final gate, but what would be the fun in that? I'm going back in tonight to clear everything out.

Amojin wrote:
This is only tangentially related to your topic, but I have a question, if you're just now starting L4's...

How long did it take you grinding 3's to afford a Paladin?


Sorry I kind of took the shortcut. They were having a 3 Plex sale a few weeks ago and I took advantage of it to buy the package and sold the plex to get out of my APOC to fly the Paladin. I've had the APOC since after the first 6 months of Eve and these missions didn't seem that bad back in my APOC when I did them years ago.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#29 - 2017-03-07 16:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
thanks I'll keep that in mind. In the mean time, I think I'll carry an extra repper to keep up with the damage until my maurader skill gets to IV. I could just skip everything and go to the final gate, but what would be the fun in that? I'm going back in tonight to clear everything out.

Trust me, after the 1001st time... skipping the gate and blitzing Assault is the only way to do it...

MoonDragn wrote:
Sorry I kind of took the shortcut. They were having a 3 Plex sale a few weeks ago and I took advantage of it to buy the package and sold the plex to get out of my APOC to fly the Paladin. I've had the APOC since after the first 6 months of Eve and these missions didn't seem that bad back in my APOC when I did them years ago.

Moving up to a Paladin was definitely the right choice (regardless of how you got there). Focus on getting to Marauder V and you will notice a night-and-day difference in performance. There's a reason why most players blitz or skip the most gruelling missions, and that is because you can fit more gank and less tank.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#30 - 2017-03-07 16:58:07 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Moving up to a Paladin was definitely the right choice (regardless of how you got there). Definitely focus on getting to Marauder V and you will notice a night-and-day difference in performance. There's a reason why most players blitz or skip the most gruelling missions, and that is because you can fit more gank and less tank.



hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot.

Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#31 - 2017-03-07 17:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot.

Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it.

The bounties are decent; the loot and salvage sucks. I think most of the bounties for NPC battleships are in the 1-1.2m ISK range.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#32 - 2017-03-07 17:02:56 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
MoonDragn wrote:
hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot.

Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it.

The bounties are decent; the loot and salvage sucks. I think most of the bounties for NPC battleships are in the 1-1.2m ISK range.



Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#33 - 2017-03-07 17:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first?

Yes, bounties are totalled up and paid out every 20 minutes. If you click on the NPC in the overview it shows how much the individual bounty payout is.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#34 - 2017-03-07 17:18:37 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
MoonDragn wrote:
Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first?

Yes, bounties are totalled up and paid out every 20 minutes. If you click on the NPC in the overview it shows how much the individual bounty payout is.



Ahh darn I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well. I'm just doing these missions for combat practice. Don't really need the extra isk now that I've sold those plexes. I know you probably did these missions 1000+ times but I grinded most of my missions through the other types, distribution, mining etc (Back then there was no guide). It is refreshing to be just doing combat instead of all the other boring Eve stuff.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#35 - 2017-03-07 17:21:55 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=248

Best section to ask such questions, GD can be....unreliable when it comes to PVE content discussions.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#36 - 2017-03-07 17:22:02 UTC
MoonDragn wrote:
[Ahh darn I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well. I'm just doing these missions for combat practice. Don't really need the extra isk now that I've sold those plexes. I know you probably did these missions 1000+ times but I grinded most of my missions through the other types, distribution, mining etc (Back then there was no guide). It is refreshing to be just doing combat instead of all the other boring Eve stuff.

Trust me, if the bounties were 10m ISK per NPC battleship I'd never blitz another mission...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
ISD Chanisa Nemes
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#37 - 2017-03-07 17:33:33 UTC
Thread has been moved to Ships & Modules.

ISD Chanisa Nemes

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2017-03-07 17:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
You might wanna check the Market - show all skills - to see if you have all available skills trained that will help boost ship stats. I know within the past year or so CCP has added some new Resistance Compensation skills for Armor and Shield. Since somebody mentioned it, if needed here's a list of Core Fitting Skills.

Man I must be getting slow in my old age. I was going to suggest other sub-forums more suited for this topic than General Discussion but I see other players have already done so, plus I see ISD Chanisa Nemes already moved this thread while I was writing this reply..


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
mkint
#39 - 2017-03-07 17:47:42 UTC
I didn't read the whole thread, but don't omni-tank for missions.

To start with, over-tank based on your target.

lows:
1x rep
4x active hardeners
kin/therm 2/2 (gurista/serpentis)
expl/kin 3/1 (angel, most rogue drones)
em/therm 1/3 (sansha/blood)

Don't use damage control or eanms or things like that. They don't put very much resists where you need them, making the bonuses and therefore the module a waste.

Some rogue drone missions have different damage profiles. Use eve-survival to get a better idea for the specific mission, though keep in mind it might not be perfectly accurate.

After you've got more experience with the missions and have a better sense of triggers and incoming damage start cutting back on your tank (shut off hardeners to see if you can still tank it) and eventually start swapping resists for damage mods.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#40 - 2017-03-07 17:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
It's a Marauder. If you need 5 active tank modules you're doing it all wrong. Most missions can be completed with the default shield buffer, a MJD and careful avoidance of triggers. You shouldn't need more than 2-3 (tops) active modules for an armor tank. Damage control, reactive armor hardener and Deadspace large armor repairer are all you really need. You can add a mission-specific hardener for some of the heavier missions, but again - it's probably overkill.

Some of the 'advice' I'm reading lately really needs to be taken with a grain of salt - or chucked out the window entirely...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.