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Armor Tanking, Am I doing it wrong?

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MoonDragn
ZiTek
#1 - 2017-03-07 15:13:14 UTC
So I finally got into a Paladin and am trying level 4 missions. Last night I started a mission called the Assault from a level 4 agent and when I warped into the mission, I was hit hard by all the NPCs there.

My Paladin is configured for standard level 4 missions and for tanking I have a damage control unit II, 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II. Plus I have the bastion module.
So after barely escaping out of there with about 30% structure left, I went back to the station to put more tanking modules.

I put another Energized adaptive nano Membrane and removed one of my damage boost modules to put a kinetic hardener in.

Went back, and wow, still hitting me hard, in the time it takes me to get into optimal range I'm down to 10% hull and barely warped out again.

This time I went back and took out more modules for more tank, now I have 1 energized adaptive, 1 damage control, and 2 hardeners, kinetic and thermal to match the NPC dmg. I pretty much have 87% resist for kinetic and thermal and over 70 on the other stuff.

I even put on a micro jump drive so I can warp out of range to get some breathing room.

When I went back in, I immediately jumped 100 km away, noticed a few of the ships were still hitting me. HARD. what's going on?

This is not missile damage, it looks like lasers, and this stuff is hitting me for 150-200 dmg a hit. Where are my resistances?
I put my Bastion module online and still take close to 150 damage a hit. What's going on?

Anyone have any ideas? My armor tanking related skills are mostly at V. With the exception of Armor layering which shouldn't be related.
Exaido
Fire Over Light
Astral Alliance
#2 - 2017-03-07 15:16:21 UTC
Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name.

These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2017-03-07 15:19:40 UTC
Are you using an armor repairer? Marauders are bonused for active tank, so that might help.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#4 - 2017-03-07 15:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: MoonDragn
Exaido wrote:
Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name.

These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy.



Only for this mission (The Assault). Nothing has ever hit my paladin that hard before. Usually I turn the armor rep on and forget. The single nano membrane and damage control II usually does the trick. The NPCs in every mission so far hit me for like 20-30 dmg at the most. This is the first time I've been hit for over 150-200 dmg every shot from NPCs that don't miss.
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#5 - 2017-03-07 15:23:37 UTC
you are turning on your hardeners? and bastion?

do you have a repper?

first room can be hard with about 15 battleships hitting you if you hit the trigger early
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-03-07 15:24:13 UTC
MoonDragn wrote:
Exaido wrote:
Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name.

These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy.



Only for this mission (The Assault). Nothing has ever hit my paladin that hard before. Usually I turn the armor rep on and forget. The single nano membrane and damage control II usually does the trick. The NPCs in every mission so far hit me for like 20-30 dmg at the most. This is the first time I've been hit for over 150-200 dmg every shot from NPCs that don't miss.


Post the fit of what you used to fly and what you fly now. Then we might understand what is happening to help you out.
Amojin
Doomheim
#7 - 2017-03-07 15:25:22 UTC
This is only tangentially related to your topic, but I have a question, if you're just now starting L4's...

How long did it take you grinding 3's to afford a Paladin?
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2017-03-07 15:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? If so the first issue is they are shooting at the Paladin's Kinetic hole. Paladin ROCKS against EM/Thermal damage of Sansha and Blood Raiders. It struggles vs Gurista and Angel Kin and Explo respectively.

So you can drop a EANM II for a rat specific hardener. This should make a world of difference, even just a Tech 2. The mission against the EOM is another which hits the paladins weakness and can blast through you pretty hard.

Also consider picking up a C or B type large armor repairer. The CORE variety are easy on the Capacitor and cheap cheap. It's the only bling I use on a Paly.


Secondly you say it takes time to get into range? A paladin should be shooting wiht good damage up to 100KM. there's two main ways to do this:

1. Fit Tech 1 Tachyon Beam lasers, go Bastion. Bring MultiFrequency, and Standard crystals. Standard should hit out to edge of Lock Range. If not, bring Infrared or a lighter crystal while you train up Sharp Shooting.

2. Fit T2 Mega Beams with Scorch and TRacking Computers. Should hit out to 100KM with good skills. If not, see point #1.

EDIT
What is your Marauders skill at? You should get it to 4 ASAP for more armor repair amount!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-03-07 15:33:09 UTC
INB4 polarized fit just in case...
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#10 - 2017-03-07 15:41:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Post the fit of what you used to fly and what you fly now. Then we might understand what is happening to help you out.



My normal fit:

high
4 Mega Pulse Laser IIs Scorch
1 auto target
1 heavy nosferatus II
1 bastion module

mid
500 nm microwarp drive
2 x Tracking computer II
1 Cap Recharger II

low

3 x Imperial Navy Heatsinks
1 Energized Adapative Nano Membrane II
1 Damage Control II
1 Capacitor power relay
1 Core C type armor repairer

Rig

2 x large energy collision accelerators


After taking damage, I removed the microwarp drive to put in micro jump drive, removed 1 navy heatsink and capactor power relay to put in 2 armor hardeners Thermal and Kinetic.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#11 - 2017-03-07 15:41:48 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)?

I'm wondering this as well. A reactive armor hardener will probably serve you better than the damage control. And has been mentioned, if you're not utilizing a large armor repairer this is probably why you're running into issues (Deadspace versions are currently very reasonable).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#12 - 2017-03-07 15:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
500 nm microwarp drive
2 x Tracking computer II
1 Cap Recharger II

3 x Imperial Navy Heatsinks
1 Energized Adapative Nano Membrane II
1 Damage Control II
1 Capacitor power relay
1 Core C type armor repairer

2 x large energy collision accelerators

Get a Faction MWD (this sill save you 7-10% capacitor). A Domination one is under 30m ISK. Personally, I'd drop the T2 Cap Recharger and go with a T2 Heavy Capacitor Battery instead (or a T2 Sensor Booster). Drop the T2 Capacitor Power Relay as well and swap it out for a Reactive Armor Hardener (you don't need to be cap stable in a Marauder).

Insofar as the rigs go - ditch both of them (you're getting almost nothing from them with stacking penalties). Switch to a T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator and T1 Large Energy Locus Coordinator instead (this will give you a ~10% bump to your rate of fire and +15% to your tracking, and it will only cost you 20m ISK).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#13 - 2017-03-07 15:49:46 UTC  |  Edited by: MoonDragn
Daerrol wrote:
I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? If so the first issue is they are shooting at the Paladin's Kinetic hole. Paladin ROCKS against EM/Thermal damage of Sansha and Blood Raiders. It struggles vs Gurista and Angel Kin and Explo respectively.

So you can drop a EANM II for a rat specific hardener. This should make a world of difference, even just a Tech 2. The mission against the EOM is another which hits the paladins weakness and can blast through you pretty hard.

Also consider picking up a C or B type large armor repairer. The CORE variety are easy on the Capacitor and cheap cheap. It's the only bling I use on a Paly.


Secondly you say it takes time to get into range? A paladin should be shooting wiht good damage up to 100KM. there's two main ways to do this:

1. Fit Tech 1 Tachyon Beam lasers, go Bastion. Bring MultiFrequency, and Standard crystals. Standard should hit out to edge of Lock Range. If not, bring Infrared or a lighter crystal while you train up Sharp Shooting.

2. Fit T2 Mega Beams with Scorch and TRacking Computers. Should hit out to 100KM with good skills. If not, see point #1.

EDIT
What is your Marauders skill at? You should get it to 4 ASAP for more armor repair amount!


This is the Assault with the laser NPCs. The names escape me right now. I have no kinetic hole, my kinetic resistance is at 87%
I do have a C type repper

The gate drops you at 10km range to the rats, I was trying to get farther away to shoot at the frigates that were jamming me.

My maurader skill is at I but should be at II or III by tonight.

I'm using scorch and conflag crystals not having problems hitting them, just not at 100km. I start doing dmg at around 80km
My sharp shooting skill is at V as are all of my laser related skills except for advanced Pulse laser Specialization V.

PS> I'm not having problems hitting them, they are just doing more damage than usual, way more damage. I thought the paly is supposed to have no problems tanking level 4 mission NPCs?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2017-03-07 15:51:42 UTC
MoonDragn wrote:
This is the Assault with the laser NPCs. The names escape me right now. I have no kinetic hole, my kinetic resistance is at 87%
I do have a C type repper

The gate drops you at 10km range to the rats, I was trying to get farther away to shoot at the frigates that were jamming me.

My maurader skill is at I but should be at II or III by tonight.

I'm using scorch and conflag crystals not having problems hitting them, just not at 100km. I start doing dmg at around 80km
My sharp shooting skill is at V as are all of my laser related skills except for advanced weapons upgrades V.

You should be using drones for anything under 20km. And if Marauders is only @ I, that's definitely part of the problem (you want III-IV minimum and ideally V). You know you can skip the first gate in Assault, right?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#15 - 2017-03-07 15:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: MoonDragn
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

You should be using drones for anything under 20km. And if Marauders is only @ I, that's definitely part of the problem (you want III-IV minimum and ideally V). You know you can skip the first gate in Assault, right?



I am using drones for anything under 20km, I was trying to move out of jamming range so I can target them.

The marauder skill should have only affect the repper. Should not affect my damage resist. These NPCs are hitting sometimes for 250 dmg against 87% resist... that seems kind of off to me.

Yes I know you can skip the first gate, but I like to try to kill everything.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2017-03-07 15:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
Yes I know you can skip the first gate, but I like to try to kill everything.

Invest in a Large Micro Jump Drive to pull range. Unless you dual-web anything orbiting you'll never hit it with large guns (even large pulse lasers).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn
ZiTek
#17 - 2017-03-07 15:57:36 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Get a Faction MWD (this sill save you 7-10% capacitor). A Domination one is under 30m ISK. Personally, I'd drop the T2 Cap Recharger and go with a T2 Heavy Capacitor Battery instead (or a T2 Sensor Booster). Drop the T2 Capacitor Power Relay as well and swap it out for a Reactive Armor Hardener (you don't need to be cap stable in a Marauder).

Insofar as the rigs go - ditch both of them (you're getting almost nothing from them with stacking penalties). Switch to a T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator and T1 Large Energy Locus Coordinator instead (this will give you a ~10% bump to your rate of fire and +15% to your tracking, and it will only cost you 20m ISK).


Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2017-03-07 16:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
MoonDragn wrote:
[Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones.

Yes, they are stacking penalized - which is why you want a single T2 version. Rate of fire will trump damage and is the cheaper option. And no, you are mistaken if you think having them is increasing your DPS by 400...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#19 - 2017-03-07 16:04:07 UTC
I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#20 - 2017-03-07 16:06:09 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank.

Marauder I. Explains a lot.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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