EVE General Discussion

If mutually declared were something people want, you would see wardeccers under permanent wardec by other wardeccers. Is this the case? If no, then your idea would obviously be useless.

People have been claiming this for years, and its never held up to the actual experience of many of the players who leave.

It's not really that complex, Eve just has (and has had for as long as I've been playing) a big gap in the NPE covering the step from learning how to play, and then stepping up into a corp. For the less pvp oriented players (and once upon a time I was one of these), the draw of Eve was in its industry not its combat. The idea of a game where you can set up complex mining and manufacturing organizations with countless different ways to build that depending mainly on your own inventiveness is something really attractive to a lot of people. Eve limits what you can do around the corp mechanic however, so its natural that groups of fairly new industrial minded players (and pvp minded ones for that matter) want to join together and carve out their own niche.

Someone mentioned earlier about 'why don't they just join a big corp/alliance', well a better question would be why do you want them to? Is Eve supposed to just be WoW, where you have a couple of big sides and you're either one or the other? Eve was always a lot more than that, which is most of its charm.

So what usually happens is that a corp of fairly new players get together to mine or manufacture or whatever, and then along comes the inevitable wardec. It's never from another equivilent corp, it's pretty much always from a group of seasoned vet pvpers looking for cheap ganks/tears. If the new guys try and fight back, they get obliterated, because the only 'combat' experience they have is shooting rats, and then after days of not being able to undock without feeling like someone is going to pop them, half of them walk away. Sure, often they'll drop back to an NPC corp first but then they still can't progress without corp mechanics and it just gets stale really quickly.

As for moving to 0.0, what options do they have exactly? Rent damn expensive space from a blob, and go sit in nullsec unable to do anything but shoot asteroids? If indeed they can even get there without getting popped on the way, and if the alliance are actually renting and not just running a scam.

It's never going to change because CCP have always made very clear (just not to new players) what they want the game to be, but its a crying shame because high sec could be a much more interesting and innovative place if the industrialists were allowed some breathing room. Because much as high-sec gankers hate the simple fact, if you've come into Eve because you liked the idea of being a miner and you've spent week mining to buy that shiny hulk, and then someone just flies in and blows it up and shouts 'Lolz, stupid carebear!' in local, there really isn't much incentive to continue playing.

The really sad part is that the vast majority of industry people wouldn't stay in hi-sec forever anyway. It's fairly dull, the returns on time invested are low and there's always the knowledge that you could make a lot more money once you start venturing out into the danger lands. So why this constant obsession with making hi-sec dangerous? Who cares? Let the carebears learn the game and they'll soon grow some teeth at their own pace.

As a wardeccer, how would you feel if your targets were tougher? Would you still do that as a primary activity? What's the typical character age of your targets? Do you intentionally go after rookies and the less experienced? Do you immediately drop it when any target presents an actual challenge?

My experience in dealing with wardec aggressors is that they aren't usually actually very good at the game. But then neither are most defenders. But if they do encounter a defender who actually defends, aggressors typically seem to get all butthurt. So, as an aggressor, what would YOU change to make wars more fun?

No, I'm addressing two things at once, sorry. 1) They'll learn at their own pace. I started the **** for them, and all they had to do is target, launch, and hit 'F.'

I would have survived, but nobody sent any aid, at all.

The wardec is me, alone, against my tax evasion corp. The last one was meaningless, since I had to work 6 12 hour days, anyway. This one hits me during my six days off, so I'll just leave the corp until it's over.

Sorry for the confusion.

One more nerf!!!

balance pass on insta-locking tornado's need to be fixed..

balance pass on ganking ships needs to be looked at.. make it more expensive .. risk vs reward is off

war dec system needs entire balance pass its broken

citadel transfer ownership needs a fix.. otherwise more exploits that go unreported will occur.

EVE has it's pluses, but let's not put them up for sainthood, just yet, ok? The reason it's a sandbox is because content creation is the most difficult and expensive part of the game. Back in the day, I ran a major empire on a MUSH, which is a text based role-play game, that has some coded systems, but is mostly rp. Yes, we had rp arcs.

Sometimes I would @pcreate a new toon, and play it in tinyfugue, along with doing my real job. Now, the players had no idea that this infiltrator was anything but a new character. They messed with him, raised and lowered his rank with their coded tools, and just played their game. In the meantime, I had a job to do, a lot of times espionage. We had a rule, no meta-gaming, so I had to actually tease out from these people, in character, information, or it could not be acted on, in game.

To provide a coherent, honest, experience, even though all of us with access to the databases and code, we didn't read their mails or their stuff, UNLESS we were granted access, on a real alt, of their own free wills. Then, and only then, could we push things.

Adults? Most were adults, but an adult has the option to play in a sandbox, or say 'You know, I'd like to experience the fun other people have designed, hear their story.'

There is a place for both of these things, but neither is superior to the other. Sometimes I'm in the mood for one, and sometimes another. Having to build, poorly, what someone else with natural talent can build for you to enjoy? Sometimes that's a good excercise, but sometimes it's just too much self-esteem, on your part, telling you, no, I can't enjoy this! Someone else made it?

Nah, you see if it was indeed true that it was just 'a challenge' then that would be all good, and for some players it is. For many others though, they don't get a challenge they just get repeatedly kicked in the face and told that playing the game using the mechanics provided makes them a stupid carebear who should go play WoW if they don't think its ok that a 10 year vet can come gank them repeatedly a week into their Eve experience.

The famous old EVE learning difficulty curve picture was funny because it was true, but it was also silly that it was true. You don't need to put newbies up against a ferocious sink or swim test in order to make a deep game that vets can enjoy.

What's frustrating is that people seem to think that if new people had more chance to settle in without being jumped on that they'd somehow just stay like that forever mining veldspar and ruin the game for everyone. It's nonsense.

Doesn't it? Unlike you, I won't claim to know what every Eve player's experience was but it is clear that there is plenty of evidence that players are still regularly bored out of the game. Just today, CCP Quant released a report that shows that players owning 35.6T ISK in assets quit the game last month. Further, talks from CCP Rise in 2014 and from CCP Quant in 2015 show really how bad a game Eve is at retaining players who don't get engaged with the sandbox and just do their thing in peace (AFK highsec mining, "levelling their Raven" or whatever) for a short while before stopping to log in altogether.

I have no doubt some people quit Eve after their first unexpected loss to another player either because they didn't like such an experience, or weren't expecting it. Losing to other players is not acceptable to many modern gamers. But I am equally sure many more have tried the game, mined alone in a Venture for a few weeks, and then quietly moved on to some other game that is more engaging, which is a shame as many of those would have really enjoyed playing in our sandbox if they had only found a way in and to connect with the real interesting bits of the game - interactions with other players both cooperative and competitive.

Get out of here with your inconvenient facts! Don't you know this is emotion time