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[March] Mobile Warp Disruptor changes

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Author
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#261 - 2017-03-02 07:34:30 UTC
Aka Evil wrote:
The number 1 reason i see that EvE has continued to be a top notch game for ALL playstyles across the gamer universe, is this...

for every action there is a equal and possible counter measure.

that being said, nullification currently lacks a counter, and so do un-manned bubbles (if you eliminated nullified incterceptors... which needs to happen).

...

Interceptors are BROKEN. PERIOD.


The counter to a nullified inty is a scout in a cloaky nullified inty and an alt in a smart bombing battlecruiser.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#262 - 2017-03-02 15:35:11 UTC
Davionia Vanshel wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

How else am I going to bubble all the gates in a constellation, to make sure no-one can use their thrasher to pop my ratting tengu?

That's a good argument, right?



Alternatively someone in their thrasher can just pop your bubble. I see it now - Thrasher bubble popping roams. It will be awesome. Bubble timers are almost irrelevant- The more significant changes that will change gameplay are killmails and shield rep.


If I have to pop bubbles on every damn gate in a constellation, I will run out of ammo to actually shoot ships at some point.
Cade Windstalker
#263 - 2017-03-02 18:11:05 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Davionia Vanshel wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

How else am I going to bubble all the gates in a constellation, to make sure no-one can use their thrasher to pop my ratting tengu?

That's a good argument, right?



Alternatively someone in their thrasher can just pop your bubble. I see it now - Thrasher bubble popping roams. It will be awesome. Bubble timers are almost irrelevant- The more significant changes that will change gameplay are killmails and shield rep.


If I have to pop bubbles on every damn gate in a constellation, I will run out of ammo to actually shoot ships at some point.


Oracle with T1 crystals says hi! Big smilePirate
Prometheus Centuri
Inner Hell
#264 - 2017-03-03 21:30:03 UTC
The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#265 - 2017-03-03 21:58:34 UTC
Prometheus Centuri wrote:
The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...


You will stop doing PvP because you KB will look bad of people shoot your bubbles?

Is this what you are saying?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#266 - 2017-03-03 23:02:38 UTC
Prometheus Centuri wrote:
The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...

Seriously you would forego content because you might get a lossmail for a bubble?

That is really sad, your killboard is more important to you than actually getting kills.

I'd suggest you never anchor bubbles, surely there is someone in your gang who isn't so obsessed with his or her killboard.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#267 - 2017-03-04 04:13:57 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Prometheus Centuri wrote:
The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...

Seriously you would forego content because you might get a lossmail for a bubble?

That is really sad, your killboard is more important to you than actually getting kills.

I'd suggest you never anchor bubbles, surely there is someone in your gang who isn't so obsessed with his or her killboard.


Or just roll up an alpha alt and have him drop 'em. Although I'm not familiar with alpha clones or their limitations...can an Alpha drop a bubble? If so, problem solved, right? Not that I really want to enable this guy's behavior, but the problem-solver within me doesn't want to let it go either.
Cade Windstalker
#268 - 2017-03-04 06:32:52 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Or just roll up an alpha alt and have him drop 'em. Although I'm not familiar with alpha clones or their limitations...can an Alpha drop a bubble? If so, problem solved, right? Not that I really want to enable this guy's behavior, but the problem-solver within me doesn't want to let it go either.


Alphas can't train Anchoring high enough for T2 at the very least. Though that's an all of 3-12 day train on a spare character slot for Anchoring 4 or 5, depending on if you want T1 or T2 Larges.

Alternatively an alt and one and a piece Skill Injectors, probably with enough left over to fly a decent T1 Industrial with fittings for bubble work.
Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment
Brave Collective
#269 - 2017-03-04 11:42:05 UTC
Fifth Blade wrote:
Much shorter expiry times would be an improvement (4-6h). So that people can still use them strategically, but it would prevent renters from bubbling each of their gates once every day (which results in no effective change).

Surgical bubbles could use a rework to be made useful, also. If you really wan't to disrupt nullification....


You have right. Now you have to take care when you move in some cloaky cyno **** without nullifier. The game goes to a terrible way right?
Or wait. You should shoot down those things, now even those give killmail (rofl)
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#270 - 2017-03-04 15:07:50 UTC
Prometheus Centuri wrote:
The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...


Your KB is already terrible m8
Bammari Spazedust
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2017-03-05 15:55:45 UTC
Why do game changes so often have to go overboard? What is wrong with incremental changes allowing measured cause and effect?

Shorter duration bubbles are fine. Easier to kill bubbles are fine if that's the direction they want to go. But generated KMs are a bad idea, particularly for small bubbles. No small bubble will survive it's first encounter, and usage will fall off a cliff because of that.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#272 - 2017-03-05 18:18:16 UTC
Bammari Spazedust wrote:
usage will fall off a cliff because of that.


If that is true, that is a good thing. You should not put stuff out in space if you don't want to see it die. If your precious kill board stats so important that you will not risk losing a mobile warp disruptor, you may have a problem. A problem not just with Eve, but with life.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#273 - 2017-03-05 18:19:10 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Prometheus Centuri wrote:
The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...

Seriously you would forego content because you might get a lossmail for a bubble?

That is really sad, your killboard is more important to you than actually getting kills.

I'd suggest you never anchor bubbles, surely there is someone in your gang who isn't so obsessed with his or her killboard.



In before people start making alts just for anchoring bubbles so that their precious kill board stats will not be affected.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#274 - 2017-03-06 00:54:35 UTC
Prometheus Centuri wrote:
The killmail generation seems to be an issue for me... When we usually set up a camp on a gate we use small ships with multiple bubles. If this means that we need to bail out when a few large ships come in and leave our bubbles unattended with reduced tank that's an issue... If I got 5 kills that night with my gang and gave away 3-4 killmails because of mobile bubbles than that's a gamechanger for me meaning I will not do it again... This means less content, less ships being destroyed etc...



Next time sine one tells me people like you don't exist when I bring up removing kill mails I'll point them to this.



PS

CCP remove kill mails or at least their api
Bammari Spazedust
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#275 - 2017-03-06 05:25:20 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Bammari Spazedust wrote:
usage will fall off a cliff because of that.


If that is true, that is a good thing. You should not put stuff out in space if you don't want to see it die. If your precious kill board stats so important that you will not risk losing a mobile warp disruptor, you may have a problem. A problem not just with Eve, but with life.



Your opinion of what people should or shouldn't care about is besides the point (and misguided since some people simply like to "keep score" - if you don't then good for you, but whatever motivation you have in this video game is no more or less noble I assure you). I don't know where your assumption that the problem with constant and quick loss of bubbles is a kill mail issue rather than a logistical one comes from, but the problem with the KMs to which I refer is that you are artificailly incentivizing the killing of bubbles and thereby creating a logistical nightmare for solo nullsec roam/campers.

If solo isn't your play style then grats on not having to care about this. But if you do happen to be one affected by this then it is an unnecessary and possibly unintended problem that needs to be pointed out to the powers that be.
Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2017-03-06 08:40:47 UTC
Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers,
that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down,
at same time, make them run on liquid ozone,
in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel.
Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down.

That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them,
will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone,
fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did.
Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change!
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#277 - 2017-03-06 17:23:58 UTC
Raven Ship wrote:
Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers,
that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down,
at same time, make them run on liquid ozone,
in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel.
Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down.

That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them,
will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone,
fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did.
Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change!


Why do you need bubbles that last for a month or more?
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#278 - 2017-03-06 19:04:46 UTC
The fact that they generate kill mails and "kills" will completely change the dynamic.

Everything else is moot.

ERONEOUS ON ALL COUNTS.
Cade Windstalker
#279 - 2017-03-06 19:25:32 UTC
Bammari Spazedust wrote:
...
I don't know where your assumption that the problem with constant and quick loss of bubbles is a kill mail issue rather than a logistical one comes from, but the problem with the KMs to which I refer is that you are artificailly incentivizing the killing of bubbles and thereby creating a logistical nightmare for solo nullsec roam/campers.

If solo isn't your play style then grats on not having to care about this. But if you do happen to be one affected by this then it is an unnecessary and possibly unintended problem that needs to be pointed out to the powers that be.


I think a large part of the point of this change is to make it harder to keep a gate bubbled indefinitely.

Also part of the request for KMs has always been to give someone a reward for the job of killing the mess of bubbles that clogs up half the gates in Null. Since bubbles will now decay that incentivizes not taking the time and wasting the ammo to kill a bubble.

Raven Ship wrote:
Only reasonable way to change mobile bubble's is to make them act like Control Towers,
that even when shield sphere is turned off, still need to be shoot down,
at same time, make them run on liquid ozone,
in volume like 140k m3 per month for largest T2, and at same time let them hold month of fuel.
Reinforce them to level of Control Tower, or do not give killmail's for shooting them down.

That way it is win-win situation, as someone who had to spend shitload of time and effort to place them,
will be in similar situation as someone who come and shoot them, and for attacker benefit would be in volume of liquid ozone,
fuel in volume he will have to struggle same as did one who deploy them did.
Also I don't accept counter argument that pvp ships have no cargo to carry it, industry ships have no guns to shoot with pvp ships also, so make those pew pew guys field purpose ships for a change!


The whole point of this is to make it difficult to keep a gate bubbled more or less indefinitely with no effort, not to keep it easy and massively buff their HP.

It takes literally 30 seconds to kick a bubble out of your ship and anchor it. That in no way justifies giving bubbles millions of HP.

Also the whole argu space argument is basically ridiculous. A small bubble takes 65m3, a Frigate can fit that.
Bammari Spazedust
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#280 - 2017-03-06 22:01:40 UTC
Quote:
I think a large part of the point of this change is to make it harder to keep a gate bubbled indefinitely.

Also part of the request for KMs has always been to give someone a reward for the job of killing the mess of bubbles that clogs up half the gates in Null. Since bubbles will now decay that incentivizes not taking the time and wasting the ammo to kill a bubble.



That's a reasonable point. My rebuttal would be that if the bubble dying anyway, what is the difference how they die? If the goal is to clean up the bubble mess then putting the limited lifetime solves the problem without unnecessary complications.


Quote:
Also the whole argu (sic) space argument is basically ridiculous. A small bubble takes 65m3, a Frigate can fit that.


65m3 is what is needed now. If the bubbles are constantly being destroyed then potentially many times 65m3 would be needed, which would indeed be a problem for solo roamers. I don't think anyone is saying the space needed before this change is an undo burden.