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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1361 - 2017-03-05 02:19:11 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point.


This supports how much isk is being to easily stolen from other hard-working players without any real effort or resistance at all.

Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players.
Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1362 - 2017-03-05 02:21:27 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill

Ok, lets look at some evidence and pull it for you.

Since ganking in a station is not possible, which systems are you saying should be checked?

Jita obviously. However, which of Perimeter, Sobaseki, Niyabainen, New Caldari? All of them? Others also?

Just want to make sure we get this right. I personally doubt they are ganking 24/7 every 15 minutes, but happy to see what the data actually shows.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1363 - 2017-03-05 02:22:10 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill
2. Great - This pushes people that refuse to manage their security status into null so that they dont have too. More null content. Something that CCP wants.
3.You can activate the low isk killrights yourself to clear them. People wont pay 500mil to activate a killright on you when you are in a destroyer.


A large alliance ganking 24/7 is not a shock. They are after all...wait...wait...wait for it...a large alliance. Dotlan tells me they have over 5,000 members, and even if we give each play an average of 5 alts, which is ridiculously high (my alliance which is old has an average of 6, KarmaFleet is newbie freindly) that means there are over 1,000 players in the alliance. That they can field 10-20 people 24/7 or near enough is not surprising, IMO. So your complaint of 24/7 ganking is just irrelevant to me.

Oh...and yeah, KarmaFleet is in which alliance....oh yeah GoonSwarm Federation...with an addtional 19,000 pilots. Lets say that is another 3,000 players. So now we have 4,0000 players who could be ganking 24/7. Wow...that is just...shocking! That 4,000 players could manage to put at least 20-30 people into a fleet 24/7. My God that is just well...completely trivial and banal. Roll

Regarding point 2 you keep right on ignoring the point here. That a low sec player has limitations. That they have adapted to it is not a surprise nor a bad thing. Always screwing them over is a bad thing because eventually they'll just leave the game....and looking at PCU over at EVE Offline that might be a bad thing you dope.

Yes, people can activate their own kill rights, but that they don't or might not have had a chance to means there is another way to shoot them and not draw CONCORD.

Holy crap can you whine any more? Wait...I'm sure you can whine alot more. Can you let me get some cheese first, I got a blue stilton at the store. Let me put some on some crackers first.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1364 - 2017-03-05 02:22:13 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players.
Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank.

We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1365 - 2017-03-05 02:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill

Ok, lets look at some evidence and pull it for you.

Since ganking in a station is not possible, which systems are you saying should be checked?

Jita obviously. However, which of Perimeter, Sobaseki, Niyabainen, New Caldari? All of them? Others also?

Just want to make sure we get this right. I personally doubt they are ganking 24/7 every 15 minutes, but happy to see what the data actually shows.


Obviously, this is where they stage. Easy access to 4-4 without even having to take their material transport freighter through one gate. They fact that they are able to stage in highsec is even more ridiculous.

Look-up on zkill if you need the systems they hit all the time. They are the paths / choke points from jita to amarr.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1366 - 2017-03-05 02:24:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiasa Kite
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts

Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you.

Having checked the post, there is no troll present.

Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts.


Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll.

Roger dodger. I'll include the post linked for verbosity.

Pointing out to NightmareX that freighters aren't actually subject to guaranteed instant death.

Explaining to NightmareX that player interaction, both competitive and cooperative represent a major selling point for EVE and thus, shouldn't be nerfed.

Continuation of conversation with NightmareX, mocking his claim that his objection to ganking wasn't the profitability. In an earlier post, he claimed that ganking shouldn't be so easy, considering how profitable it is. When challenged with the notion that profitability is dictated by the targets, not the gankers, he claimed he wasn't arguing about profitability.

Pointing out that HiSec freighter suicide ganking is already a comparatively rare event.

Correcting your suggestion that ganking is "unethical game design". The possibility of being killed while trying to make a profit offers a level of excitement rarely experienced in computer games./[url]

Asking for evidence.

Asking why ganking should be changed.

The NightmareX pendulum has swung back again, he's claiming his idea won't impact the value of anything. He's wrong, it would. He's also not explaining how such a change would benefit the game.

Pointing out, yet again, that profitability of ganking comes from the targets, not the gankers and not CCP. It always comes from other players making mistakes.

Mockery of the "one more nerf" stream of ganking nerf requests. Often times, when a player has a problem with ganking, they struggle to simply admit it - honestly, I don't know why. Instead, they insist there's some convoluted system that ganking violates and and as such, should be changed so it can't be profitable, can only be done when profitable, can only be done with RP, without RP, or only done on weekdays. Simply put: They're lying about what they're trying to achieve or they've genuinely deceived themselves.

[url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856048#post6856048]Pointing out that CONCORD will ALWAYS shut down a ganker in 2-24 seconds. Admittedly, you mentioned Faction Police, but your reference to a gank threw me and I assumed you were talking about the period between opening fire and CONCORD shutting a ganker down.

Sorry about this one. Either I can't spot my error or the forum only allows ten links per post.

There, done.

I've analysed the next ten posts as you requested. There are no trolls present. The vast majority are helpful and critical, offering insight into some of the mechanics and behaviours associated with ganking.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1367 - 2017-03-05 02:25:43 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players.
Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank.

We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight.


This is a player driven game. Get off your ass and go kill Kusion and his alts. Stop wanting NPCs to do your work for you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1368 - 2017-03-05 02:25:46 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players.
Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank.

We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight.

I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1369 - 2017-03-05 02:26:32 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well.
If that's an example of your analytical skills, it's no wonder this thread is full of people asking for evidence.

Time stamps don't lie; you do.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1370 - 2017-03-05 02:26:53 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts

Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you.

Having checked the post, there is no troll present.

Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts.


Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll.

Roger dodger. I'll include the post linked for verbosity.

Pointing out to NightmareX that freighters aren't actually subject to guaranteed instant death.

Explaining to NightmareX that player interaction, both competitive and cooperative represent a major selling point for EVE and thus, shouldn't be nerfed.

Continuation of conversation with NightmareX, mocking his claim that his objection to ganking wasn't the profitability. In an earlier post, he claimed that ganking shouldn't be so easy, considering how profitable it is. When challenged with the notion that profitability is dictated by the targets, not the gankers, he claimed he wasn't arguing about profitability.

Pointing out that HiSec freighter suicide ganking is already a comparatively rare event.

Correcting your suggestion that ganking is "unethical game design". The possibility of being killed while trying to make a profit offers a level of excitement rarely experienced in computer games./[url]

Asking for evidence.

Asking why ganking should be changed.

The NightmareX pendulum has swung back again, he's claiming his idea won't impact the value of anything. He's wrong, it would. He's also not explaining how such a change would benefit the game.

[url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856040#post6856040]Pointing out, yet again, that profitability of ganking comes from the targets, not the gankers and not CCP. It always comes from other players making mistakes.

[url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856045#post6856045]Mockery of the "one more nerf" stream of ganking nerf requests. Often times, when a player has a problem with ganking, they struggle to simply admit it - honestly, I don't know why. Instead, they insist there's some convoluted system that ganking violates and and as such, should be changed so it can't be profitable, can only be done when profitable, can only be done with RP, without RP, or only done on weekdays. Simply put: They're lying about what they're trying to achieve or they've genuinely deceived themselves.

[url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856048#post6856048]Pointing out that CONCORD will ALWAYS shut down a ganker in 2-24 seconds. Admittedly, you mentioned Faction Police, but your reference to a gank threw me and I assumed you were talking about the period between opening fire and CONCORD shutting a ganker down.

There, done.

I've analysed the next ten posts as you requested. There are no trolls present. The vast majority are helpful and critical, offering insight into some of the mechanics and behaviours associated with ganking.


Dude no one cares. @scipio Artellus, if you were interested in having a serious conversation, you would be telling this guys to stop posting walls of text.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1371 - 2017-03-05 02:27:08 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts

Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you.

Having checked the post, there is no troll present.

Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts.


Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll.

Roger dodger. I'll include the post linked for verbosity.

Pointing out to NightmareX that freighters aren't actually subject to guaranteed instant death.

Explaining to NightmareX that player interaction, both competitive and cooperative represent a major selling point for EVE and thus, shouldn't be nerfed.

Continuation of conversation with NightmareX, mocking his claim that his objection to ganking wasn't the profitability. In an earlier post, he claimed that ganking shouldn't be so easy, considering how profitable it is. When challenged with the notion that profitability is dictated by the targets, not the gankers, he claimed he wasn't arguing about profitability.

Pointing out that HiSec freighter suicide ganking is already a comparatively rare event.

Correcting your suggestion that ganking is "unethical game design". The possibility of being killed while trying to make a profit offers a level of excitement rarely experienced in computer games./[url]

Asking for evidence.

Asking why ganking should be changed.

The NightmareX pendulum has swung back again, he's claiming his idea won't impact the value of anything. He's wrong, it would. He's also not explaining how such a change would benefit the game.

[url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856040#post6856040]Pointing out, yet again, that profitability of ganking comes from the targets, not the gankers and not CCP. It always comes from other players making mistakes.

[url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856045#post6856045]Mockery of the "one more nerf" stream of ganking nerf requests. Often times, when a player has a problem with ganking, they struggle to simply admit it - honestly, I don't know why. Instead, they insist there's some convoluted system that ganking violates and and as such, should be changed so it can't be profitable, can only be done when profitable, can only be done with RP, without RP, or only done on weekdays. Simply put: They're lying about what they're trying to achieve or they've genuinely deceived themselves.

[url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6856048#post6856048]Pointing out that CONCORD will ALWAYS shut down a ganker in 2-24 seconds. Admittedly, you mentioned Faction Police, but your reference to a gank threw me and I assumed you were talking about the period between opening fire and CONCORD shutting a ganker down.

There, done.

I've analysed the next ten posts as you requested. There are no trolls present. The vast majority are helpful and critical, offering insight into some of the mechanics and behaviours associated with ganking.


Hiasa, I'm sorry but you linked only 8 posts. Clearly you are the anti-Christ and a troll.

Scipio will you tell Hiasa I will not be liking his posts for the next 5 minutes. Thanks. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1372 - 2017-03-05 02:27:50 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll.


Hence the edits in the OP CONCORD(edit:Faction Police)
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1373 - 2017-03-05 02:29:58 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom....
Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand.

The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal.

If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this.

Awww f&%k, I didn't realise he was that dumb. Now I'm almost as dumb for thinking he meant the last paragraph in my posts was a troll.

Almost. Still more intelligent than a glass of water, at least.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1374 - 2017-03-05 02:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll.


Hence the edits in the OP CONCORD(edit:Faction Police)
Would you like to explain to the newcomers why you had to edit that? Was it because you didn't know the difference between the Faction Police and Concord despite claiming to understand the mechanics in play?

IIRC you called people liars for pointing this out to you.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1375 - 2017-03-05 02:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Erich Einstein wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill

Ok, lets look at some evidence and pull it for you.

Since ganking in a station is not possible, which systems are you saying should be checked?

Jita obviously. However, which of Perimeter, Sobaseki, Niyabainen, New Caldari? All of them? Others also?

Just want to make sure we get this right. I personally doubt they are ganking 24/7 every 15 minutes, but happy to see what the data actually shows.


Obviously, this is where they stage. Easy access to 4-4 without even having to take their material transport freighter through one gate. They fact that they are able to stage in highsec is even more ridiculous.

Look-up on zkill if you need the systems they hit all the time. They are the paths / choke points from jita to amarr.

Ok, but which systems are you saying? They clearly don't gank 24/7 in Jita:

https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98370861/kills/system/30000142/

They only killed 2 pods yesterday, didn't kill anything at all in Jita on 3 March. Only 1 Atron killed on 2 March, only 1 Keres on 1 March. No kills on 28 February. So over just the recent 5 days, they've only killed 2 ships and 2 pods in Jita.

That doesn't seem like much to worry about from Karmafleet on the 4-4.

So, which other systems should I include so that you will be satisfied with the outcome when the data is pulled through the API?
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1376 - 2017-03-05 02:32:30 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point.


This supports how much isk is being too easily stolen from other hard-working players without any real effort or resistance at all.

"Hard working" AFK autopiloting freighter pilots.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1377 - 2017-03-05 02:34:05 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom....
Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand.

The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal.

If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this.


Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well.

My apologies if my choice of formatting is not to your taste. What would you suggest? A different form of formatting or splitting my responses over multiple posts so I don't go over the limit each time?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1378 - 2017-03-05 02:35:13 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well.

I don't type walls of text. Most of my responses consist of a few sentences, maybe a half dozen paragraphs. Hardly rewriting LOTR.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1379 - 2017-03-05 02:37:48 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

Then get off your ass and give him some resistance instead of posting here calling everyone who disagrees with you trolls. It's CONCORD's job to blow up the gank ship after a certain period of time. Anything more is the job of the players.
Also, they're not very hard-working if they don't bother to take precautions against a gank.

We have not been talking about CONCORD for a long time. Get your facts straight.

I was under the impression that talking about CONCORD mechanics in a thread about CONCORD mechanics was always permissible. Unless you admit you're derailing your own thread, which would suggest you are a troll.

Funny, I flagged that post as trolling and derailment before I'd read this one.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1380 - 2017-03-05 02:38:16 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Regarding point 2 you keep right on ignoring the point here. That a low sec player has limitations. That they have adapted to it is not a surprise nor a bad thing. Always screwing them over is a bad thing because eventually they'll just leave the game....and looking at PCU over at EVE Offline that might be a bad thing you dope.

Lets be real here Teckos. While the rest of your analysis was spot on, and not supporting the Op in any way, this bit is garbage.
Alts (or even mains) designed purely for ganking like most of these characters we are talking about are not affected or restricted by these 'limits'. A limit is only relevant if it actually impacts on your activities, otherwise it could be non existent and your behaviour still would basically not change.

The people actually trashed by sec status limits are normally not involved in high sec ganking but are the low sec pirates (or null mains who low sec roam as well).

But that is a by the by, and well, I'm just giggling at the Ops devolution of this thread further and further down the magic mushroom rabbit hole.