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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1341 - 2017-03-05 01:51:32 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
Lie is as the gangers sits with sec status above -5 which wont let them gang in space as they are cleared their status for 150 mil already;
Roger out;

Show me a prove that "many do not" - as repairing their status is cheap and ez;

I just pulled the last 2500 ganks by CODE.

Total ganks analysed: 2543
Total CODE. members involved: 112

% of CODE. members as outlaw when ganking: 78.6% (88 of 112)
% of CODE. members not outlaw when ganking: 21.4%

% of outlaw ganks: 93.7% (2382 of 2543)
% of not outlaw ganks: 6.3% (161 of 2543)

The CODE. attackers on gank killmails are outlaw 93.7% of the time.

You can repeat the analysis yourself if you like. Here's the data (A total of about 4000 killmails as not all CODE. kills are ganks)::
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aARjRfZTlmd3dETUk

This result is consistent across months of checking data. >90% of CODE. attackers that appear on killmails are outlaw.

CODE. of course aren't the only gankers in existence, just the most active.

____________________________________________

And here are the names:

NameSec Status # Ganks
Zane Arnolles -10 32
Aaaarrgg -10 138
Skiff Poddington -10 46
Kiara Successfuel -10 13
Kirigi -10 28
Milkmypigeon -10 15
Kibbera -10 76
Count Ragnar Danneskjold -10 25
Koiji -10 28
Agent Hex -10 2
Captain Cortar -10 24
Ralliana -10 2
Jeremiah Kusion -10 47
Yabba Dabba Do -10 10
ST0NER SMURFETTE -10 1
Brutal Anna -10 8
Keraina Talie-Kuo -10 77
Perlo Tissant -10 8
Mack Poddington -10 44
Knackered Old Goat -10 2
Guybertini -10 58
Jackson Kusion -10 46
ST0NER SMURF -10 1
Ima Wreckyou -10 4
Ngoq TlhamChu' ChutEnforce -10 7
PostOp Transexual -10 13
Kanji Kan -10 28
Luna Nightblood -10 1
Alt 00 -10 29
Photon Death -10 57
Plasma Death -10 61
Mildron Klinker -10 90
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri -10 26
Andrea Ellecon -10 3
Mark Eting -10 8
Pod-Goo Repoman -10 9
Lament von Gankenheim -10 2
Jack Van Impe -10 3
Joseph Kusion -10 47
Lillie Naari -10 28
Tender Sometimes -10 8
NotTheSmartestCookie -10 42
Hulk Poddington -10 45
Molly Klinker -10 82
GR13Fy -10 17
Alexander Kirenski -10 10
Fiddly Pop -10 43
Jason Kusion -10 54
V-ktor Dolus -10 2
Joel Kusion -10 50
Joshua Kusion -10 49
Hide Yo Hulks -10 5
Spine Ripper -10 11
Justin Kusion -10 50
Charlie Nelson Reilly -10 3
Krominal -10 43
Vilinensis Octoria -10 2
Liek DarZ -10 64
Jake Kusion -10 50
Lawrence Lawton -10 51
Brigantine M2 -10 5
Pod-Goo RepoWoman -10 62
Johnathan Kusion -10 46
Jana Grebb -10 20
DEVILISH ST0NER SMURF -10 1
Eleni Helios -10 15
Tisiphone Dira -10 57
Alt Proxy -10 21
Jayden Kusion -10 50
Rick Therapist -10 13
Gavril Ilizarov -10 5
Lichelle Marie -9.9 34
Agrona Martin -9.8 5
Baby Lemba -9.8 13
Lemba -9.7 10
Kill-Chan -9.6 13
Cautiously Pessimistic -9.5 37
I Can't Even -9.4 3
Booka Shade -8.9 3
Ron Chi -8.9 2
Marshall Mathars -6.9 1
Zombiepilot -6.9 3
achterlijke -6.7 9
Zopiclone -6.6 42
007 JBond -6.6 53
Duratan Muhahaha -6 6
Savin Aulmais -5.5 1
Nitetime Video -5 24
Sasha Nemtsov -4.9 2
William Morgane -4.5 2
Dude Magic -4.5 12
Marina Gankalot -4.1 6
Calrizzan -3.7 15
Lisa Tancos -3.7 7
Pod-Goo Repairman -3.2 6
Starshade -3 1
Tax Collector Discotime -2.9 8
Edward T'each -2.8 1
Snigie Audanie -2.7 23
Pod Destroyer Molly -2.3 6
Aaaarrggs Scout Alt -1.9 1
Super Perforator -1.9 17
Tax Collector Emile -1.8 1
Semtex Attor -1.7 6
Halifax Novacane -1.5 6
Tax Collector Richard -0.5 13
Jason Seitz -0.2 3
Ruby Daniella -0.2 2
Taxman Daniel -0.1 9
FightMeNow 0 3
Carebears' Nightmare 0.3 9
Dom Arkaral 4.9 2


They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case.

Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1342 - 2017-03-05 01:52:12 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Im not concerned about that. CCP knows how to guage the situation themselves. They don't need anyone doing it for them. They just need to see and be aware of the OP and what is suggests.

You're wrong.

This has been explained by CCP staff and by members of the CSM in the past. You're case is improved by a solid, objective argument, supported with evidence.

Just like us, CCP staff don't want to have to go looking for evidence to support every claim here.

In fact, in relation to ganking they have gone and looked for evidence to support it being a problem and concluded that it is not a problem.

So, good luck with your thread. At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum.

I envy them.


Hey.... your still here. I thought you figured out I was trolling you or something. 9/10 remember. Like I said... your not going anywhere.

"At least it has contained you here pretty much. That's a win for the rest of the forum."

I admit I could be wrong, you might not be a troll. But if you're not, God damn you're stupid.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1343 - 2017-03-05 01:52:40 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


You keep insisting that it's so easy and that the consequences are nil, you should be able to do it easily.


Im a solo hero.... My alt Erika Einstein already has a fair amount of Tornado ganks under her belt. If you don't believe me, just check zkill.
Not what I asked for, yet again you're evading the fact that you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support your claim that suicide ganking is too easy and has no consequences.

I wrote:
You made your claim first, show us a video of you organising the logistics, coordination and finding enough people to gank a freighter, and then executing the plan.
Here's the part you edited out in your attempt to evade my request for evidence. While my request for a video may seem onerous it's the standard of proof that you asked for from Scipio.


see initial posts....
I have, there appears to be a distinct lack of anything that isn't your opinion.

Is refer back to my other posts all that you have left? Not that you had much to begin with.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1344 - 2017-03-05 01:52:58 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP.


Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down.

It's a containment thread. ISDs have explained before that they leave threads open well beyond their usefulness at times, because discussion here is at least contained to here and doesn't spill over to other areas of the forum.

Leaving idiotic idea threads open is ultimately good for the rest of the threads and everyone not interested in certain issues.


Not really, I've already commented on other threads about this issue whenever it relates. I link it to social media as well.

See under your avatar, your name is a link. It opens a drop down list that lets you check your post history.

I stopped at the end of page 15, but not a single post out of this thread. Your last >300 posts in the forum have been in this thread.

That's a pretty good example of containment.

Once again, the evidence available actually shows you are wrong.

Edit: There's only 2 additional pages to your post history past that and not a single post on this issue elsewhere. Lol. Foiled again.

"Fake evidence"?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1345 - 2017-03-05 01:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Not only that but from the video we see he got 2 tornadoes, that alone could be enough for foil a specific gank. Yes, they may very well reship and come back, but the freighter they did have in mind of ganking may very well be in a 0.8 or even a 0.9 system. That is, you don't have to kill them all, just enough so that their DPS drops low enough to prevent the gank.

You can also try to scan these guys down too ya know. Scan them down, warp into the middle of them, scram some release drones and start shooting.

But nooo. That isn't good enough.

Anyone getting the impression these guys are just fecking lazy as Hell?


Those who operate out of jita v do not gank in tornados like this. These tornados are not the ones who are ignoring faction police mechanics. They are keeping their security status in check to continue their ganks in highsec. The problem is the 30-40 man fleet running out of jita V (goons, karmafleet, gimme da loot, etc) that stay invulnerable in warp until the target is reached (the one being bumped and not able to get away). Then within a few seconds of attacking the freighter is wrecked. There is not much you can do to prevent the freighter loss unless a small AG fleet criminally ganks the bumper before the squad arrives. This logic is useless though because now AG takes security status hits and is viewed as a criminal without even making any profit. That's why no one cares to gank the bumper. The tornado guy's are ganking the the way it should be done (managing security status). The fleet gankers are the ones abusing system mechanics.


So you have a boner for Goons, that makes you even more ridiculous. Changing game mechanics because a specific alliance is using them is lame beyond belief. Either argue the merits or STFU. Stop it with the Grr Goons nonsense it just makes you look stupid.

Edit: BTW, if he were doing it with a talos and shooting catalysts or coercers he'd likely be one shotting them and could probably burn through more than he did. Even by his own admission he wasted time targeting pods. Skip that step and you'll likely kill quite a few destroyers.

Serioulsy, can you just stop whining and complaining and go out there and find a way to shoot them?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1346 - 2017-03-05 01:56:11 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Aaaarrgg -10 138
I have it good authority that this man is a force of nature.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1347 - 2017-03-05 01:56:42 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
@Hiasa Kite

I've never seen someone spew out so much random BS. You did not address the point of my post, you just threw out random comments. You seriously need to go to the doctor and get checked out for trollidous.


He addressed every point, that you are obstinately refusing to admit it reflects on you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1348 - 2017-03-05 01:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP.


Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down.

I don't troll. There's plenty of troll posts by yourself, though.


Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts Each one of your posts grabs a few random quotes and the you paste a huge paragraph of random text into the bottom of your posts to make them super long.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1349 - 2017-03-05 01:58:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
@Hiasa Kite

I've never seen someone spew out so much random BS. You did not address the point of my post, you just threw out random comments. You seriously need to go to the doctor and get checked out for trollidous.


He addressed every point, that you are obstinately refusing to admit it reflects on you.

Maybe he literally can't comprehend debate.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1350 - 2017-03-05 01:58:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case.

Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both.

The guy claims to be a computer scientist. He should be able to do it in his sleep in a few minutes. The data is all there.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1351 - 2017-03-05 02:00:54 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP.


Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down.

I don't troll. There's plenty of troll posts by yourself, though.


Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts

Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you.

Having checked the post, there is no troll present.

Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1352 - 2017-03-05 02:01:31 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case.

Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both.

The guy claims to be a computer scientist. He should be able to do it in his sleep in a few minutes. The data is all there.


... get over it ...
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1353 - 2017-03-05 02:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

They no doubt already are and have already chalked it up as another "ganking QQ" thread. There's nothing of value in the OP.


Yet the thread remains unlocks, even after all of your trolling attempts to get it shut down.

I don't troll. There's plenty of troll posts by yourself, though.


Specifically, your trolls start here. Hiasa_Kite_Troll_Posts

Wow, you can link stuff. I honestly thought that was beyond you.

Having checked the post, there is no troll present.

Maybe you just don't know what a troll is. I'll give you a hint: It's not pointing out the flaws in your posts.


Look at your next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom.... nothing but a pissed off troll.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1354 - 2017-03-05 02:04:34 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
... get over it ...

Post some evidence.

It can't be hard. You should have all the skills and knowledge you need to get the data, analyse it and post it here.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1355 - 2017-03-05 02:05:07 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.

The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion.

Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions.

Let's start with some evidence and work from there.

So, for example, the thesis of your OP is:

Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given?

Your next claim in the OP is:

To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.

Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled.

Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket?


The OP is, in a word, a liar.

1. Nobody ganks every 15 minutes for 24 hours a day. An organization might, but an organization is not a player, drawing an equivalence there is incredibly dishonest.

2. People with a low sec status are effectively locked out of cruisers and above. Get in a cruisers and chances are the FacPo or players will catch you and kill you.

3. To become a criminal you pretty much have to build up a list of kill rights, which anyone can activate so long as they pay the ISK, and if you want your killer to be killed sooner vs. later, set the kill right to "free to all" vs. trying to get 100 million ISK.

So clearly there are consequences to having a low sec status. The OPs claim there is not one is just a blatant lie to further his own personal agenda.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1356 - 2017-03-05 02:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom....
Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand.

The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal.

If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1357 - 2017-03-05 02:08:37 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
They won't repeat **** because they know it will undermine their case.

Bottomline is they are lazy, stupid or both.

The guy claims to be a computer scientist. He should be able to do it in his sleep in a few minutes. The data is all there.


I know, but funnily enough he won't....maybe he can't.

If he, or anyone else, pulled the data I'd look at it. I'd pop it into SAS and start turning the data this way, that way, and so forth. Looking to see if indeed there is a problem.

But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1358 - 2017-03-05 02:10:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Teckos Pech wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.

The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion.

Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions.

Let's start with some evidence and work from there.

So, for example, the thesis of your OP is:

Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given?

Your next claim in the OP is:

To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.

Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled.

Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket?


The OP is, in a word, a liar.

1. Nobody ganks every 15 minutes for 24 hours a day. An organization might, but an organization is not a player, drawing an equivalence there is incredibly dishonest.

2. People with a low sec status are effectively locked out of cruisers and above. Get in a cruisers and chances are the FacPo or players will catch you and kill you.

3. To become a criminal you pretty much have to build up a list of kill rights, which anyone can activate so long as they pay the ISK, and if you want your killer to be killed sooner vs. later, set the kill right to "free to all" vs. trying to get 100 million ISK.

So clearly there are consequences to having a low sec status. The OPs claim there is not one is just a blatant lie to further his own personal agenda.


1. Jita V - Moon 17 Station - KarmaFleet Zkill
2. Great - This pushes people that refuse to manage their security status into null so that they dont have too. More null content. Something that CCP wants.
3.You can activate the low isk killrights yourself to clear them. People wont pay 500mil to activate a killright on you when you are in a destroyer.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1359 - 2017-03-05 02:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Teckos Pech wrote:


But instead all he does is make shrill posts about Kusion have 9.6 trillion ISK in kills. As if that proves his point.


This supports how much isk is being too easily stolen from other hard-working players without any real effort or resistance at all.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1360 - 2017-03-05 02:15:27 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Look at your (Hiasa Kite's) next ten posts from that point. You see the random paragraphs posted in at the bottom....
Yep, we'll definitely add how forums work to the list of things that you don't understand.

The forum has a quote limit, those "random paragraphs" are an attempt to bypass that limit. The first part of each one is quoting you, and the second is his rebuttal.

If you'd have actually read them you'd already know this.


Forum rules require that you attempt to keep it easy to follow and read. You can also see that he posted a wall of text ever minute or so. No one types that fast. Others have posted saying that the trolling is BS as well.