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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1281 - 2017-03-04 23:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO.

In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up.

It's an opinion. Existing is it's own proof that it's what his opinion is.

He isn't claiming it as fact. That whole section of his post starts "In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind..."

What more proof do you want that he thinks that?
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1282 - 2017-03-04 23:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one ín highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship.


Preach it sister....

In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO.

In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up.

Do you have any proof to back up the implementation of your idea?

/me gets some more popcorn


Your pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1283 - 2017-03-04 23:19:04 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one ín highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship.


Too bad I know plenty of lowsec pilots who run solo in a cap.

And I've known wh pilots who knew how to get their freighter safely from their hole through ls to the first hs system.

From there they used Red Frog to get their stuff to Jita. In hindsight it's a pity I never asked them why Blink.

Remove standings and insurance.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1284 - 2017-03-04 23:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Scipio Artelius wrote:


He isn't claiming it as fact. That whole section of his post starts "In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind..."

What more proof do you want that he thinks that?

Why is his opinion what it is. There has to be proof that has lead him to his own opinion. Otherwise hes just crazy.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1285 - 2017-03-04 23:21:26 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one ín highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship.


Preach it sister....

In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO.

In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up.

It's an opinion. It comes from me and is based purely on my interpretation of the game. I am not pushing this idea on anyone as I'm not even convinced it would be a good thing for the game as a whole - I just see (jump) freighters as something that inhibits my enjoyment of the game and would like to see them changed because of that.

That's the difference between you and me. We both have opinions, but I'm not deluded into thinking that just because it seems good at a glance for me that it would be good for the game overall.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1286 - 2017-03-04 23:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Erich Einstein wrote:
You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.

The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion.

Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions.

Let's start with some evidence and work from there.

So, for example, the thesis of your OP is:

Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given?

Your next claim in the OP is:

To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.

Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled.

Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket?
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1287 - 2017-03-04 23:23:32 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
That's actually true. Freighters are capital ships. One could assume that not ganking is the problem here, especially since a serious group is required to kill one ín highsec. As a capital ship they are an asset that requires a group to properly field it. And one could raise the question, whether they should be allowed in highsec at all as a capital ship.


Preach it sister....

In a very selfish point of view: I wouldn't mind seeing freighters and jump freighters disappearing. They're used far too much as catch-all logistics solutions IMO.

In your opinion. Got any proof to back that up.

It's an opinion. It comes from me and is based purely on my interpretation of the game. I am not pushing this idea on anyone as I'm not even convinced it would be a good thing for the game as a whole - I just see (jump) freighters as something that inhibits my enjoyment of the game and would like to see them changed because of that.

That's the difference between you and me. We both have opinions, but I'm not deluded into thinking that just because it seems good at a glance for me that it would be good for the game overall.

How is the OP good for my gameplay again. Wouldn't #SwoopSalvage be losing isk with this.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1288 - 2017-03-04 23:24:31 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.

The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion.

Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions.

Let's start with some evidence and work from there.

So, for example, the thesis of your OP is:

Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given?

Its in the first 40 pages before you started trolling.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1289 - 2017-03-04 23:26:10 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.

The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion.

Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions.

Let's start with some evidence and work from there.

So, for example, the thesis of your OP is:

Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given?

Its in the first 40 pages before you started trolling.

Link it for me. I've looked and cannot find any evidence posted.

So if it is there as you claim, then you should be able to point me to it, surely.

I'm not trolling. If you are getting all emotional over my posts, I apologise. It's not my intent. I'm just trying to get a factual basis for what is being argued here.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1290 - 2017-03-04 23:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.

The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion.

Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions.

Let's start with some evidence and work from there.

So, for example, the thesis of your OP is:

Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given?

Its in the first 40 pages before you started trolling.

Link it for me. I've looked and cannot find any evidence posted.

So if it is there as you claim, then you should be able to point me to it, surely.

I'm not trolling. If you are getting all emotional over my posts, I apologise. It's not my intent. I'm just trying to get a factual basis for what is being argued here.

Well go through and read all the posts, pick out what everyone has said and write it down, being sure not to repeat things. Then list it here in a post and we can discuss it from there. Be sure not to inject your own biased into this list.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#1291 - 2017-03-04 23:33:37 UTC
He asked you to link it,

you can't link it because it's not there Roll

what are you trying to get out of this attention whoring? Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1292 - 2017-03-04 23:36:17 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
You pathetic trolling and excuses are all the proof anyone needs. You wouldnt be so interested in trying to trash the tread for days at a time if the OP didn't have merit.

The OP doesn't have merit based on anything factual posted, because nothing factual has been posted. It's all just opinion.

Opinions are fine, but time and time again, some evidence to support what you are saying has been requested and ignored, time and time again, in favour of instead calling people trolls and repeating already stated opinions.

Let's start with some evidence and work from there.

So, for example, the thesis of your OP is:

Given that, CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

Well, it's actually not a given at all. Where is the evidence that supports what you are claiming is a given?

Your next claim in the OP is:

To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.

Show us that this is occuring. Where is the evidence of characters being created, used for a short period to gank, then biomassed or just abandoned and new ones rolled.

Where is the evidence that this is occurring and if you have the evidence, have you reported that via a support ticket?


Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1293 - 2017-03-04 23:38:05 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
He asked you to link it,

you can't link it because it's not there Roll

what are you trying to get out of this attention whoring? Lol


I'm not going to waist my time... It's already there. When I post it, you will quickly troll it and it will become one of the "previous posts" again
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1294 - 2017-03-04 23:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Erich Einstein wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

Dom Arkaral 4.9 2

hahahahah
this is gold

edit: wooo for 1k likes
love you too

Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks.


Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete.

Same analysis repeated for Goonswarm Federation for the last 1200 ship ganks:

Total ganks: 1200

% outlaw: 25.2%
% not outlaw: 74.8%

% outlaw attackers: 60.0%
% not outlaw attackers: 40.0%

60% of Goon attackers appearing on ganks are outlaw.

They have far more people involved than CODE. (given Burn Jita, it's no surprise), but the bulk of ganking involves outlaw characters.

So back to the request to show proof that many do not repair their sec status, what more do you want?

Oh; and if you want to go look yourself, here's the data I pulled:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aAWTI3RU5nQ0IwTEU
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1295 - 2017-03-04 23:41:42 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time.

Yeah, I totally did that once. While in HiSec:

They never ran any missions, didn't run exploration sites, didn't camp gates, had to rely on other people to scout targets for them.

Faction police are so effective at what they do you simply they're not doing their jobs properly.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1296 - 2017-03-04 23:42:28 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
He asked you to link it,

you can't link it because it's not there Roll

what are you trying to get out of this attention whoring? Lol


I'm not going to waist my time... It's already there. When I post it, you will quickly troll it and it will become one of the "previous posts" again

Because it's not evidence. You've not once, throughout this entire thread posted any evidence to support your claim that ganking would benefit from a change such as yours.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1297 - 2017-03-04 23:44:31 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Well go through and read all the posts, pick out what everyone has said and write it down, being sure not to repeat things. Then list it here in a post and we can discuss it from there. Be sure not to inject your own biased into this list.

So, you can't even point to even a single piece of evidence posted earlier in this thread that can be discussed that supports your claims?

Not even one? At least that confirms my own reading of the thread.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1298 - 2017-03-04 23:46:44 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

Dom Arkaral 4.9 2

hahahahah
this is gold

edit: wooo for 1k likes
love you too

Most of your kills in the last 2500 ganks by CODE. are wardec kills, not ganks.


Who cares about code, they have already been shut down and no longer run any major ops. Just a few miners here and there. It's the goons in jita that are the focus. I need to update my slogan #codeCONTROL to #goonCONTROL so that you guys stop getting confused as to what the issue is hete.

Same analysis repeated for Goonswarm Federation for the last 1200 ship ganks:

Total ganks: 1200

% outlaw: 25.2%
% not outlaw: 74.8%

% outlaw attackers: 60.0%
% not outlaw attackers: 40.0%

60% of Goon attackers appearing on ganks are outlaw.

They have far more people involved than CODE. (given Burn Jita, it's no surprise), but the bulk of ganking involves outlaw characters.

So back to the request to show proof that many do not repair their sec status, what more do you want?

Oh; and if you want to go look yourself, here's the data I pulled:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aAWTI3RU5nQ0IwTEU


Where are you getting the term oitlaw... This isn't the wild west. Please explain why you are not just using the word criminal.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1299 - 2017-03-04 23:48:50 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jump in-game and follow them around for a day. Then tell me what faction police did besides follow them around the whole time.

So your evidence for your claims is that we should all go find our own evidence to support you?

What if I do that and find out that your claim is not true? Will you believe me? I doubt it, which makes this a very poor basis for evidence.

You can either support your claims, or you can't. So far, you can't.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1300 - 2017-03-04 23:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Erich Einstein wrote:
Where are you getting the term oitlaw... This isn't the wild west. Please explain why you are not just using the word criminal.

OMG.

Outlaw is the game term for someone with a security status <= -5.0

Criminal is the terms for someone criminally flagged for 15 minutes.

They are not the same thing. I can go criminal by committing a criminal action, but that doesn't make me an outlaw. If I drop my sec status down, then I can be attacked at any point by anyone because I am an outlaw, even when not carrying a suspect or criminal flag.

Here, go read the details:

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/introducing-the-new-and-improved-crimewatch/ (crimewatch flags, including mention of assisting outlaws and attacking outlaws in both the text and first table)

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Security_status (Eve-Uni wiki which CCP now recommend people use after closing the evewiki)