Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Stabbers and Omen Navy are potent freighter bumpers ;)

Again, where is the imbalance. How much stuff moves around HS in freighters unmolested vs. stuff getting ganked? Do you know? I put up some links awhile back giving some indications.

What precisely is imbalanced? That you think it is too easy? Again, why should it be harder? What is the underlying reason than, "Because I say so."?

Ironically I have posted links to actual data provided by CCP Quandt and people like the OP and his lackeys don't even look at it.

If you look at production there has been a significant upward sloping trend. I'll be curious to see what happens in February, but there has been a ton of products brought into the New Eden economy. Part of it might be Burn Jita, I suppose.

But these guys keep saying "the data" and their "data" is Kusion's ISK Destroyed statistics. Which isn't even data, it is a statistic--i.e. it gives us a summary of the data...part of the data, it isn't even a summary statistic in the sense of ISK destroyed, but ISK destroyed and dropped. And even that does not tell us how much stuff is being moved around HS without being ganked.

In short, they have no data. When data and statistics are presented they ignore them. And misrepresent everyone else's position.

Most ship kills are "blink" and you missed it. And the interaction is not limited to just the gank itself, but the entire time spent in fleet ganking which can be a few hours.



Okay, and? This is true irrespective of ship, activity, etc. If a group decides you are going to die, chances are, you as a lone pilot, you will die.

As for child's play I disagree. I have been on gank fleets and depending on your target you need several people for DPS, at least 10 or so. You'll need a bumper. If you are ganking for profit, you'll need a scanner and somebody to scoop the loot. Then there is the logistics of getting the ships and ammo in place. The actual moving of stuff. Assembling ships. Putting them on contracts.

And I'll once point out you are only seeing part of the picture: those who were ganked--i.e. took few or no precautions. Ganking the "low hanging fruit" is of course going to look easy. How many people are moving around who are prudent? How many are getting around just based on luck?



So...you are suggesting increasing the CONCORD response times, but allowing for more fitting options? Like say some form of weaponry?

At least that is a new idea vs. the usual rants. I guess I'd be a oh so slightly worried about fatigue and NS but that would depend on the weapon systems I guess. Could be an interesting discussion. I would still argue that a single pilot/ship should not generally be a match for an entire fleet of ships.



Once you are being bumped, this is true. There is little a pilot can do at that point...but again, that is usually after multiple mistakes.

Effectively yes, I'll agree to disagree on some of your other points, or at least on the relevance of them, though I agree most ship kills are blink and you miss them, and I also regard that as a bad thing even in Null fleet vs fleet combat.

I also agree that a single ship/pilot should still go down vs a group.

The vision I see is industrials being somewhat akin to WW2 bombers vs fighters. They can have tank, prop mods, and some unbonused weapons (Say 3-4 Med sized weapons with zero bonuses, maybe up to large weapon allowances on freighters). Cargo expanders get a stacking penalty so it's not an all or nothing, because really, non stacking % based mods were always a bad idea.
So yeah, a lone industrial is still going to explode not a problem.
But you can then have impromptu or organised convoys of industrials. And putting 10 industrials in a convoy together then presents a harder target.
Now yes, you 'could' use escorts currently, but A: The gank is over too fast for escorts to have much influence. & B: Escorts are worthless if no gank is attempted, resulting in lost income. By having the industrials doing a self convoy you get a similar effect to what CCP did with the Porpoise & Rorqual. 1v1 they are outgunned by a dedicated combat ship their own size, but in a larger group they can beat off or at least inflict losses on an attacking group. (Or sometimes just be so overwhelmed they die anyway). But if no attack happens they are still useful and doing their primary task.

So with longer gank timers, and industrials able to 'self escort' by forming convoys, you would hopefully see a lot more interaction & chaos. As well as more interesting fights in high sec since Concord wouldn't be along in 10 seconds to stop all the shooting. (& no more lag from 500 concord ships, oh god. Meaning you could smart bomb jita undock if you really wanted to with BS to tank the station guns also)

Ain't that the truth. I imagine the typical carebear reaction to Nevyn's idea would be horror.

Your ignorance is showing again, you can shoot at most of them freely due to their security status.

You're not very good at this are you?

Totally relevant.
Rip

Naye's definition of trolling: Pointing out the flaws in your argument.

I pointed out that most gankers can be shot at freely due to their security status, even if they don't have a criminal or suspect flag.

That is a fact, not an opinion; there's a significant difference between them which you, and your friends, have apparently failed to grasp. Now, please explain how making a statement of fact is trolling.