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How effective is CSM? Time to get rid of it?
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Atticus Fynch
#1 - 2012-01-21 19:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Atticus Fynch
Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2012-01-21 19:20:49 UTC
They represent Goons, I think that says it all.... Lol

"Fighting CCD since 2139"
Valei Khurelem
#3 - 2012-01-21 19:21:25 UTC
Quote:
Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they get free psuedo-celebrity staus and free trips to Iceland.


You pretty much answered it yourself, if you're asking those kind of questions to begin with then CSM aren't being effective at their jobs at all.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Atticus Fynch
#4 - 2012-01-21 19:39:26 UTC
Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Rory Orlenard
Eve Pilots Revolutionary Army
#5 - 2012-01-21 20:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rory Orlenard
They can and do talk to CCP. Wether it's for show or actually useful.....who knows.

Different CSM members have different egendas and may or may not represent your views. Different CSM members have varying knowledge of the game aspects.........if you want some one who knows your gameplay aspects it is up to you to vote them in.

This last year some not all of the CSM members claimed they were reponsible for Hilmars refocusing while never mentioning the pilots who unsubbed, and they claimed wormholes represented to great a source of ABC minerals and needed to be choked.

They also made many good suggestions.

Bottom Line = You need to do some looking into CSM candidates and vote. Mittani out, Seleen in would be a good start.


If they are laying on the ground on fire and you pee next to thier nose - it probably means you don't like them.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2012-01-21 20:08:30 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.


I'm going to assume you didn't vote in the CSM election, don't know who the candidates were or who is currently on the CSM, don't follow the devblogs and are generally completely unaware of anything that has ever happened in the history of the CSM.
Atticus Fynch
#7 - 2012-01-21 20:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Atticus Fynch
Rory Orlenard wrote:

This last year some not all of the CSM members claimed they were reponsible for Hilmars refocusing while never mentioning the pilots who unsubbed,



LOL!!!

I doubt CSM was responsible for CCP CEO "refocusing." $ub numbers had e a very load voice in all of this.
CSM is just a powerless figurehead desinged to give the appearance that the EVE playerbase has a voice through them. Like I said before, the same can be accomplished via surveys/questionares and votes. 1 acct = 1 vote.

It's also cheaper than flying anyone out to iceland.

Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.


I'm going to assume you didn't vote in the CSM election, don't know who the candidates were or who is currently on the CSM, don't follow the devblogs and are generally completely unaware of anything that has ever happened in the history of the CSM.


Chirst, life is complicated enough as is. I now have to follow up on all this political BS just to have some input in a game I play for enjoyment? Seems too much like work and I have a RL job for that.Roll

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Rikki Sals
BioLogistics
#8 - 2012-01-21 20:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikki Sals
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.


They represent those who voted for them, which ended up being about 14.25% of active subscriptions last year.

Surveys or questionnaires originating from the CSM might be of some value, but again, the results of those will only reflect the sample of people who responded (and that's assuming respondents weren't just trolling.)

Atticus Fynch wrote:
Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.


What method do you propose?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#9 - 2012-01-21 20:12:05 UTC
CSM speaks for their own interests more or less; they always will, and they always have. Sometimes those interests coincide with some or all of the rest of us, and other times they are so far off the mark as to be completely out of touch. No surprise there. CSM is coming to re-election, and the guys that are in, want to get as much of their personal stuff pushed through as possible right now. Most likely, the majority of that stuff has nothing to do with us.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#10 - 2012-01-21 20:16:22 UTC
Been a while since i've seen a CSM post something not purely ego driven... Most of them represent a very very small portion of the community, something that must be addressed.

I'm personally all for getting rid of the lot of them.
Atticus Fynch
#11 - 2012-01-21 20:17:48 UTC
Rikki Sals wrote:


What method do you propose?


Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site.

You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote.

Simple.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
atrum dux
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-21 20:30:53 UTC
Hi, please do not take down the CSM. We won't be able to destroy this wonderful internet spaceship game.
Atticus Fynch
#13 - 2012-01-21 20:32:39 UTC
atrum dux wrote:
Hi, please do not take down the CSM. We won't be able to destroy own this wonderful internet spaceship game.


fixed

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-01-21 20:33:19 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.


They are elected, and they work with and discuss things with players in an entirely different section of the forums than this.

They won't send you surveys, much like everything else in EVE, if you want to be involved, you go where the action is and get involved.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Atticus Fynch
#15 - 2012-01-21 20:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Atticus Fynch
Grath Telkin wrote:


They won't send you surveys, much like everything else in EVE, if you want to be involved, you go where the action is and get involved.



My idea is simpler, cheaper and gets a larger portion of the playerbase involved due to its simplicty. Not just those even aware of this political side of EVE.

Rikki Sals wrote:

They represent those who voted for them, which ended up being about 14.25% of active subscriptions last year.


Those are pretty sad figures and not representative of the player base at all.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#16 - 2012-01-21 20:40:16 UTC
The 5th topic on this subject in the last 4 days.

Down with goons pretending to speak on my behalf.

+1

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#17 - 2012-01-21 20:44:46 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Rikki Sals wrote:


What method do you propose?


Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site.

You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote.

Simple.


1) Why do you seem to enjoy getting email spam?

2) IIRC there was E-Mail spam telling people to vote in the CSM. That various blocs were able to get out the vote better than disorganized HiSec people is not the fault of the blocs.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Sundarpants
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-01-21 20:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sundarpants
You clearly didn't pay a jot of attention to the elections then.

The candidates all outlined their views and blogged and campaigned etc... and we, the players, vote for those who best represent our views.... it's not a difficult concept.

Second to this, we have had surveys from CCP, we also had that rather large event when we rated all the of the individual issues listed on a points scale, this was then collated to provide CCP with a view of "what the players want".


They have been instrumental this year in bringing about CCP's agenda/attitude toward the playerbase and the game, improving a great many areas, to one of the best expansions we've had in years, and Eve players moving from wild protest to voting Eve Online the best game of 2011 on MMORPG.com, a particulary notable achievment considering the MMORPG.com inhabitants views on Eve Online.
And furthmore, have built one of the best player-CSM-CCP relationships we have enjoyed since it's inception, which could make the coming elections the most important in OUR game's history.




edit:

It seems to me a case of people who refuse to participate in all the avenues they are provided to interact with CCP and shape the future of Eve, complaining that they are not being heard?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#19 - 2012-01-21 20:48:07 UTC
Sundarpants wrote:

The candidates all outlined their views and blogged and campaigned etc... and we, the players, vote for those who best represent our views.... it's not a difficult concept.
.


Players play the game, sheeple vote.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Atticus Fynch
#20 - 2012-01-21 20:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Atticus Fynch
RubyPorto wrote:
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Rikki Sals wrote:


What method do you propose?


Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site.

You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote.

Simple.


1) Why do you seem to enjoy getting email spam?

2) IIRC there was E-Mail spam telling people to vote in the CSM. That various blocs were able to get out the vote better than disorganized HiSec people is not the fault of the blocs.


Having a voice in EVE shouldnt have to be a mini-game of knowing who-is-who in what election and what they might represent It's just a popularity contest with no real teeth.

It should be direct and simple. If e-mail spam is your biggest problem in life then you are a very privileged person.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
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