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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1141 - 2017-03-02 22:00:31 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled.


Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.


Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof.

I have provided my proof many times. Stop ignoring the trillions in isk lost on zkill ganker reports. Kushion's 10 trillion destroyed vs. 31bil lost satisfies me many times over.


Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass.

Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1142 - 2017-03-02 22:01:33 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
I've noticed mechanics that gankers are able ignore completely, rendering certain systems useless against them.

What are those mechanics?
Hmm?
*prepares more popcorn*


Hence the ability to read 60 pages of previous posts. Well you can Ignore the last ten pages of trolling ...


Translation: Erich has zip, zilch, nada, nothing, zero, the empty set, bumpkiss, zed....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1143 - 2017-03-02 22:17:47 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled.


Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.


Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof.

I have provided my proof many times. Stop ignoring the trillions in isk lost on zkill ganker reports. Kushion's 10 trillion destroyed vs. 31bil lost satisfies me many times over.


Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass.

Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't.


*prepares popcorn to watch your rant*
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1144 - 2017-03-02 22:25:35 UTC
OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1145 - 2017-03-02 22:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Okay, the question is, given all these references to how much ISK value Kusion and his merry band of alts destroys....

On what evidence is the OP basing his claim on that more ISK value should be allowed to move around HS with less risk? Merely noting that trillions of ISK has been destroyed by Kusion over the course of of 27 months. That means on average Kusion has killed 351 billion ISK a month, or lets say 12 billion ISK a day on average.

How much ISK moves around HS? The OP has made absolutely zero effort to tell us this. The OP has not made the case that there is "too much" destruction. All he does is point to a large number and in shrill and whiny post after post writes, "Too much!!! There, there is your proof!!"

But, a quick glance at CCP Quandt's reports tells us that the OP has his head so firmly ensconced between his buttocks it is a minor miracle he has not suffocated.

Nearly 1 quadrillion ISK flowed into the Forge in December 2016 and nearly 1 quadrillion flowed out.

Quadrillion, 1,000 times a trillion.

In terms of goods there is a metric butt loads of stuff moving in and out of the Forge and around the game.

Why does it need to be easier to move stuff around? After all, the OP quite clearly thinks suicide ganking of freighters is far, far too easy.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1146 - 2017-03-02 22:28:50 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass.

Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't.


*prepares popcorn to watch your rant*


Yup, as I thought you have nothing. About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?

Here is a hint: CCP Quandt prepares reports on these kinds of things.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1147 - 2017-03-02 22:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Hiasa Kite wrote:
OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke.


No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1148 - 2017-03-02 22:30:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke.


No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested.


^^^^

If you have the ability to answer it, I have asked two. But my guess is you'll dodge.

Here, I'll ask again:

About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1149 - 2017-03-02 22:31:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass.

Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't.


*prepares popcorn to watch your rant*


Yup, as I thought you have nothing. About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?

Here is a hint: CCP Quandt prepares reports on these kinds of things.


Make your statement using your stats and I will respond. I dont have time to do all the research you need to help you make your point.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1150 - 2017-03-02 22:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Dude you wouldn't know good data analysis if it came along and bit you on the ass.

Just because there have been trillions lost to Kusion tells us nothing about the trillions that have moved around HS unmolested. You keep trotting out Kusion's trillions as if that by itself is sufficient. It isn't.


*prepares popcorn to watch your rant*


Yup, as I thought you have nothing. About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?

Here is a hint: CCP Quandt prepares reports on these kinds of things.


Make your statement using your stats and I will respond. I dont have time to do all the research you need to help you make your point.


Yup dodging....

Here I'll help you even more.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Jan_2017/0_produced.vs.destroyed.png

Edit:

Lots more economic statistics here,

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/monthly-economic-report-january-2017/

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1151 - 2017-03-02 22:35:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here, I'll ask again:

About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?


You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down). And more seriously, why it doesnt get harder to do these things (ie why criminals dont have to manage their security status to stay effective).

Pvp players in lowsec who just want to pvp, still have to find a way to pay for all their ship losses. Instead of having to grind in separate activities, many just by a plex here and there to continue their fun. Gankers who down a 20bil freighter every 15min (or say even every hour to be generous) have plenty of income to continue their fun all day long through tags.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#1152 - 2017-03-02 22:36:52 UTC
What mechanics Erich?
Still haven't answered ;)

This is the only serious question you get from me, so unless you give me a serious answer, this whole thread is just a way for you to get the attention people ingame aren't giving you.. because let's be honest, I'm pretty sure AG is laughing bosoms at this whole thread, and more particularly at you.

Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1153 - 2017-03-02 22:37:27 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
What mechanics Erich?
Still haven't answered ;)

This is the only serious question you get from me, so unless you give me a serious answer, this whole thread is just a way for you to get the attention people ingame aren't giving you.. because let's be honest, I'm pretty sure AG is laughing bosoms at this whole thread, and more particularly at you.

Lol


See #1151
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1154 - 2017-03-02 22:38:22 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here, I'll ask again:

About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?


You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down).


So, you continue to dodge and weasel.

So, since you don't think production and destruction have anything to do with it you can now STFU about Kusion's trillions of ISK. The ISK value has nothing to do with it.

And HS criminals do not have "warp invulnerability". They are relegated to ships that can enter warp quickly which means there are entire classes of ships a person with a low sec status are more or less barred from using.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#1155 - 2017-03-02 22:40:06 UTC
After 1154 posts, I believe it's time we get this useless thread locked

Nothing of worth will be lost

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1156 - 2017-03-02 22:40:11 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
What mechanics Erich?
Still haven't answered ;)

This is the only serious question you get from me, so unless you give me a serious answer, this whole thread is just a way for you to get the attention people ingame aren't giving you.. because let's be honest, I'm pretty sure AG is laughing bosoms at this whole thread, and more particularly at you.

Lol


See #1151


Working as CCP intended. They clearly intended for players with low sec status to be able to move through HS with fast moving ships--e.g. pods, shuttles, travelceptors, frigs, and destroyers. Such players are essentially unable to use cruiser sized ships and above.

Where is the problem?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1157 - 2017-03-02 22:40:45 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke.


No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested.

Why do you feel the change proposed in your OP is necessary? Do note that I'm already aware of your opinion that ganking is too easy. I would like to know how you reach this conclusion. In addition, I'm interested to know how you think that such a change to HiSec criminality would benefit the game, not just the victims.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1158 - 2017-03-02 22:42:56 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
OP appears to have given up. He's realised he's lost the argument but he's too proud to admit it, hence he's simply trolling. You can't help but feel a little sorry for the poor tyke.


No... You are just trolling ... ask a serious question that isnt a wall of text and I'd be happy to address it. And relate it to the OP or im not interested.

Why do you feel the change proposed in your OP is necessary? Do note that I'm already aware of your opinion that ganking is too easy. I would like to know how you reach this conclusion. In addition, I'm interested to know how you think that such a change to HiSec criminality would benefit the game, not just the victims.


Clearly because it is too easy.

Erich Einstein is a master of circular reasoning.... P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#1159 - 2017-03-02 22:43:03 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here, I'll ask again:

About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?


You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down).


So, you continue to dodge and weasel.

So, since you don't think production and destruction have anything to do with it you can now STFU about Kusion's trillions of ISK. The ISK value has nothing to do with it.

And HS criminals do not have "warp invulnerability". They are relegated to ships that can enter warp quickly which means there are entire classes of ships a person with a low sec status are more or less barred from using.


again... *popcorn* Im not interested in trolling that topic with you.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#1160 - 2017-03-02 22:45:37 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Here, I'll ask again:

About how much ISK value in production is there in New Eden each day? And about how much is destroyed?


You believe this production vs destruction of a regioin is important. I do not believe its related to finding an issue on why criminals in highsec can avoid capture by faction police and others (through warp invulnerability) until they are ready to be destroyed (ie after the 20bil Jump Freighter is down).


So, you continue to dodge and weasel.

So, since you don't think production and destruction have anything to do with it you can now STFU about Kusion's trillions of ISK. The ISK value has nothing to do with it.

And HS criminals do not have "warp invulnerability". They are relegated to ships that can enter warp quickly which means there are entire classes of ships a person with a low sec status are more or less barred from using.


again... *popcorn* Im not interested in trolling that topic with you.

That topic is your op...

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist