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price dumping... or jacking up. I don't understand.....
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Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#41 - 2017-03-02 13:54:20 UTC
Raven Ship wrote:
Syds Sinclair wrote:

The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.


If it behave like bot, is it look like bot, if it smell like one, it is a bot, so pass over this no bot propaganda.
One thing I learned by years, is that those who use them, will negate there existence for most part.

And there are some simple and easy ways to find bots, first use google, and search for images,
that will give you a clue about what to expect from market bot, then on field you operate, make sure you see time to expire of orders present, this time do refresh each time price is changed, and in fixed values, 3months, month, and so on,
then before setting your sell order print screen market view, that is if you can't remember it,
next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788
another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise.

Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income.



When I'm on and actively station trading as opposed to doing something else... I act exactly like a bot.

I cycle through orders, updating by .01 when I see that I'm not at the top.

It doesn't matter if you drop the price .01 isk or 153.32 isk. I'm going to get to the front by the smallest amount to put me in front. I'm always precise to the .01 isk level as well... why wouldn't I be?

If I'm semi-actively trading (perhaps while doing something on another toon or surfing the internet or watching netflix)... I'm slower. And obviously I'm not updating while I'm not logged in/asleep. But I believe a lot of stuff you view as bot behavior is just what traders do who are actively trading. Why would I leave isk on the table by NOT .01 isking to get in front? Why would I want to increase the decrease in sell price or increase the buy price (and lower my margins) more than I have to?
Eleonora Skye
Sushi Corp
#42 - 2017-03-02 17:28:13 UTC
Raven Ship wrote:

Next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788
another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise.

Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income.


What if they don't have to type but just copy / paste ?
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2017-03-02 20:15:09 UTC
Scialt wrote:
Raven Ship wrote:
Syds Sinclair wrote:

The thing is, good trading and bot activity look very similar.


If it behave like bot, is it look like bot, if it smell like one, it is a bot, so pass over this no bot propaganda.
One thing I learned by years, is that those who use them, will negate there existence for most part.

And there are some simple and easy ways to find bots, first use google, and search for images,
that will give you a clue about what to expect from market bot, then on field you operate, make sure you see time to expire of orders present, this time do refresh each time price is changed, and in fixed values, 3months, month, and so on,
then before setting your sell order print screen market view, that is if you can't remember it,
next if any of those hurly inactive orders get updated by 0.01 below your order, go down with random number, like 54 644 378 788
another update of 0.01-10isk is confirmation of bot, as no human will bother to type it that precise.

Then as said earlier, screw this bot owner income.



When I'm on and actively station trading as opposed to doing something else... I act exactly like a bot.

I cycle through orders, updating by .01 when I see that I'm not at the top.

It doesn't matter if you drop the price .01 isk or 153.32 isk. I'm going to get to the front by the smallest amount to put me in front. I'm always precise to the .01 isk level as well... why wouldn't I be?

If I'm semi-actively trading (perhaps while doing something on another toon or surfing the internet or watching netflix)... I'm slower. And obviously I'm not updating while I'm not logged in/asleep. But I believe a lot of stuff you view as bot behavior is just what traders do who are actively trading. Why would I leave isk on the table by NOT .01 isking to get in front? Why would I want to increase the decrease in sell price or increase the buy price (and lower my margins) more than I have to?


..You just might be my long lost twin.

♠ Sinclair Consulting ♠
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#44 - 2017-03-03 07:28:37 UTC
I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.

post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#45 - 2017-03-03 15:33:28 UTC
Agondray wrote:
I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.

post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours


Look, when I am trading actively (or even semi-actively while watching TV), I cycle through my orders and adjust so I'm at the top. If there are 10 other people in the same hub doing the same thing... it's going to look like a bot to you.

I've gone head to head with people dropping prices by .01 isk for half an hour before. I realize I hit another active trader... wait a couple of hours and adjust the price... and it sticks for a while. Why? Because that guy is not active trading anymore. I guess the guy could have "logged his bot off"... but if you're afk anyway while letting a bot trade for you I don't see why you wouldn't let it keep going.

We've all run into times where we get topped (either by .01 isk or by greater amounts) very quickly. The thing is... it doesn't always happen. And if it's not happening 100% of the time... it's probably not a bot. The whole point of botting would be for it to happen all the time... not just when you're paying attention to it. If it's only happening for a few hours at a time for a given order... it's likely a real person.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2017-03-03 23:09:05 UTC
Adiman Lutua wrote:
Then someone comes in and dumps a s**tload of new stock on it at market -20% taking a lot of the creamm off the top of the trade. I mean he dumps like a 5day supply of the stuff. so we have to follow him down and keep bumping along the the .01 isk because the volume trading isn't going to change massively from what I can see, so this guy is going to have to follow us down the same road.

There's your mistake. He won't follow you. He's posted his order, he'll take a peek at the market once every day or so just to make sure things are progressing as planned. There's nothing left to do except wait for his order to trickle through.

You and your 0.01ing competitors have a little bit of stock still riding on this trade that this new trader has just ruined for you. He fully expects you to keep trading at the new lower level to sell off your remaining stock, but then he expects you to walk away, hoping to find another wide margin item to trade.

If he's wrong and the 0.01ers don't clear out, he'll make the margin even smaller. The game essentially becomes a game of wills: Who is more sure they're buying/selling for the best price?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2017-03-04 00:52:11 UTC
Agondray wrote:
I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.

post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours


..Yes, that's true. Sometimes it's near impossible to be the top order, because a lot of other pilots are trading that item. Now you are ready to diversify. So what if you can't stay top order in product x? You're trading with 100 different items.

♠ Sinclair Consulting ♠
x-Matarka-x
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2017-04-08 08:10:20 UTC
Syds Sinclair wrote:
Agondray wrote:
I undercut what I sell, and ive also caused a collapse on things like ice just by dropping 100 cubes on the market and watching everyone .01 isk down from 100k to 50k isk. a lot of your .01s are also bots because they do it way to quick.

post a sale, market refreshes, see several orders now .01 isk under yours


..Yes, that's true. Sometimes it's near impossible to be the top order, because a lot of other pilots are trading that item. Now you are ready to diversify. So what if you can't stay top order in product x? You're trading with 100 different items.

a lot of other BOTS...
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