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Is HS PI a thing?
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William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#1 - 2017-02-24 22:09:56 UTC
Greetings friendly forum readers.

Quick question – can ISK be made in high sec from PI?

Specifically, I’m thinking about buying materials (P1 or maybe P2) and then using factory planets in HS to create P3 and maybe P4 to sell back to the HS markets.

Does anyone make their ISK this way? If yes, anyone have any rough values on profit over time? Anyone have any experiences/tips/tricks they learned the hard way that they want to share with me to save me learning the same lesson the hard way?

As always, any help and advice is appreciated. Thanks guys.
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#2 - 2017-02-25 03:32:21 UTC
It's been a while since I've done it, but yeah there should be isk to be made. Important thing is to find a low tax planet. I know you said in high, but I'd personally recommend looking in low so you don't have to worry about the npc tax on top of the player tax.

Trick is to just look at the market and figure out what has a good profit margin. Also be careful you don't burnout and let the planets go to waste completely.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#3 - 2017-02-25 09:58:30 UTC
You can absolutely produce PI profitably in highsec. There is an NPC component to the POCO tax in highsec - 10% export and 5% import. You can cut this in half by training Customs Code Expertise. You need to comparison shop for tax rates. I'm paying 10% export on my P2 planets and 8% on my factory planet.

PI is most profitable when you incorporate your harvest into manufactured products. I have planets making Consumer Electronics, Mechanical Parts, Transmitters and Water-Cooled CPU. I combine these on a factory planet to make Robotics and Guidance Systems which I then build into T2 drones - increasing my profit margin with each link in the value chain.

If you want to do PI in nullsec, drones represent an excellent way to get your PI to market. A medium drone is 10 M3. The PI to make it is 36 M3. That compression make a big difference when you are paying for Jump Freighter service by the M3!
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#4 - 2017-02-25 22:47:11 UTC
I used to run a series of P2->P4 factory planets in highsec 2 jumps out of Jita. It was definitely profitable, but running truckloads of P2 out there every 4 days just wasn't enjoyable to me. It required careful spreadsheeting to ensure I was producing profitable items after import, export and sales taxes, but it was a reliable isk maker.
William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#5 - 2017-02-26 22:53:43 UTC
Thanks for all the informative responses. I wasn't aware of NPC tax on top of the POCO tax, so I'm glad that came up. And its encouraging to hear this can and has been done.

I think I'll look further into this and haybe even try it out. But like Sheeth Athonille said, I'm not sure if it will be very fun.... well, I'm pretty sure it won't be fun, but if its a little bit of trouble for a lot of ISK, I wouldn't be opposed to it. A lot of trouble would be a different story (lots of ISK or otherwise). This IS a game after all and it's meant to be fun, not a chore. Sometimes I have to remind myself of that.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#6 - 2017-02-26 23:49:52 UTC
After doing many different configurations of PI, I eventually discovered the truth in the maxim that the best PI is the PI you actually do. I currently run a very simple setup doing single planet R0-P2 production in a wormhole with a lowsec exit. My extractors are set to 48 hours and I transport my finished P2 about every 2 weeks (depending on how diligent I've been about restarting my extractors). I could certainly make more isk with a little more effort, but that's the right balance between effort and return for me.

Find the balance that works for you. If it starts feeling like drudgery, you won't do it. If you don't really enjoy PI, I would encourage you to keep it simple - even if that means a lower isk yield.
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2017-02-28 02:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Beast of Revelations
I just quit doing what you are proposing to do - run factory planets and buy the PI inputs needed - and I did it in low-sec paying 5% tax. I was doing P3 to P4.

I found it impractical. I don't know how rich you are, but I could never fully-saturate my entire system with factory input. At one point I was running half a billion ISK in cargo runs in order to feed the system, and that STILL wouldn't fully top off everything. I think I figured it would take over a billion ISK to do it, and that's a ton of risk coming in and out of lowsec (inputs coming in, final product coming out). Plus, I spent a lot of time in an Epithal hauling.

I just switched over to a more 'traditional' system - sucking it out of the ground vs. buying it on the market. Much less risk, much less time spent in an Epithal, and no problem saturating the facilities with needed inputs.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#8 - 2017-02-28 04:46:15 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
I just quit doing what you are proposing to do - run factory planets and buy the PI inputs needed - and I did it in low-sec paying 5% tax. I was doing P3 to P4.

I found it impractical. I don't know how rich you are, but I could never fully-saturate my entire system with factory input. At one point I was running half a billion ISK in cargo runs in order to feed the system, and that STILL wouldn't fully top off everything. I think I figured it would take over a billion ISK to do it, and that's a ton of risk coming in and out of lowsec (inputs coming in, final product coming out). Plus, I spent a lot of time in an Epithal hauling.

I just switched over to a more 'traditional' system - sucking it out of the ground vs. buying it on the market. Much less risk, much less time spent in an Epithal, and no problem saturating the facilities with needed inputs.



Yep. When I was running P2->P4 production in highsec, it took nearly 500M isk to fully load up one production planet for a 4 to 7 day run (depending on what I was producing) and I did that with 6 planets that I generally reloaded once per week. So it took 3B isk to net a profit of about 500-600M isk per week. That's a decent return for the capital outlay, but even in highsec, a 500M isk Epithal is a sweet gank target.

Too much capital, too much risk, too much time spent hauling, too many spreadsheets for something I didn't enjoy. Wasn't worth it long term. But some people like that stuff.
Sara Starbuck
Adamantine Creations
#9 - 2017-03-01 04:07:18 UTC
I used to run p2-p4 factories next door of Jita before the poco changes, afaik each planet was doing 300-500M month, but it was a lot of hauling and generally not so fun gameplay, as it is with all PI really.