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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

First post
Author
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#881 - 2017-02-28 22:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:

You are the one that suggested that "only criminals live in lowsec" and simply by using your interpredation of the rules, only criminals should be allowed into lowsec. See how stupid it is? If you limit some people from accessing certain types of space, the same rules need to apply the other way as well. You shouldn't have the right to reap the rewards of lowsec if you aren't willing to go criminal.


If you would like to generate a separate forum post to address your issue of keeping non-criminals out of low and null sec than by all means do so. This does not change what is proposed in the OP. The "only criminals..." comment should be considered a stereotype to describe the majority.

The point is that what you propose is stupid, and he's using an example that runs on similar logic to highlight its absurdity.


I dont expect everyone to agree. People have their own agendas. Try to keep things constructive instead of just throwing out generalized negative comments.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#882 - 2017-02-28 22:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Erich Einstein wrote:
I dont expect everyone to agree. People have their own agendas. Try to keep things constructive instead of just throwing out generalized negative comments.

He didn't even had any valid arguments on why it's stupid according to him either. The only thing i have seen as argument from one of them is that it gets harder to do gank. Yeah, but i mean, you have to work for everything in EVE, so why shouldn't criminals works for what they do, lol?

Not only that, but ANY criminals in high sec should work harder than any law abiding players in high sec, because they are breaking the rules of high sec.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#883 - 2017-02-28 22:19:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Dark Lord Trump wrote:

If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems.


Use some of that dank isk you make from ganking to buy tags instead of mission running. If you are ganking in a way that is not profitable to you, then buy plex. You can also enjoy plenty of the other PVP experiences in EVE such as lowsec faction warfare, pirating in lowsec, etc until you can afford to buy more tags and come back to highsec and gank some more.

I can add in the OP that the value of the ganked target can take part in adjusting how much of a security status hit the ganker takes. In this universe where we are all immortal it makes sense, unlike RL.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#884 - 2017-02-28 22:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Erich Einstein wrote:
out of control ganking teams in Jita


What out of control ganking teams?

Erich Einstein wrote:


Use some of that dank isk you make from ganking to buy tags instead of mission running.


That is over 300 million every time you hit -10, that is simply affordable.

Why don't you just shoot them rather than beg CCP to destroy an entire playstyle?
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#885 - 2017-02-28 22:52:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


What out of control ganking teams?


KarmaFleet
Gimme Da Loot
Kusion - moved from Uedama recently. Not sure if its permanent but he runs out of here a lot now.
etc

See their zkillboard isk destroyed vs isk lost.

Im only taking into account those near Jita. Not sure of any major operations near Amarr or elsewhere.

Jita V - Moon 17 station - Feel free to jump in-game and follow them around for a day.

I want to note that many have mistaken this as a temporary burn jita event but zkill will quickly show that is false.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#886 - 2017-02-28 22:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
baltec1 wrote:


Why don't you just shoot them rather than beg CCP to destroy an entire playstyle?


CCP could always increase the drop-rate of tags to something that they find fair or increase ways of obtaining them. Market control of these tags is an intended dynamic thought about by the OP.

Dont whine about dropping a 20bil freighter though that is carrying a citadel or something and not being able to afford tags.
The limited requirement of mission running when tags are to expensive is meant to reduce the rate of current ganks on freighters and other juicy targets every 15min of the day.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#887 - 2017-02-28 23:00:34 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


What out of control ganking teams?


KarmaFleet
Gimme Da Loot
Kusion - moved from Uedama recently. Not sure if its permanent but he runs out of here a lot now.
etc

See their zkillboard isk destroyed vs isk lost.

Im only taking into account those near Jita. Not sure of any major operations near Amarr or elsewhere.

Jita V - Moon 17 station - Feel free to jump in-game and follow them around for a day.

I want to note that many have mistaken this as a temporary burn jita event but zkill will quickly show that is false.


So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history?

Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#888 - 2017-02-28 23:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
baltec1 wrote:


So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history?



Well I did give Kusion a really hard time in Uedama - twitch.tv/agsperry/videos/all/. I took like 95% (check zkill) of all his isk in a three day period and then he took a few months off after that.

These gankers also seem to be coming together in Jita V - Moon 17 and working as a large fleet to focusing exclusively on freighters. You can still see poddington and others going after miners occasionally but there is a good amount of them sitting idle in station when to many of them are online. (No need to lose any more ships than you have too.)

I wish I had a concrete answer for you but Kusion taking a few months off will definitely lower that statistic.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#889 - 2017-02-28 23:28:40 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history?



Well I did give Kusion a really hard time in Uedama - twitch.tv/agsperry/videos/all/. I took like 95% (check zkill) of all his isk in a three day period and then he took a few months off after that.

These gankers also seem to be coming together in Jita V - Moon 17 and working as a large fleet to focusing exclusively on freighters. You can still see poddington and others going after miners occasionally but there is a good amount of them sitting idle in station when to many of them are online. (No need to lose any more ships than you have too.)

I wish I had a concrete answer for you but Kusion taking a few months off will definitely lower that statistic.


More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#890 - 2017-02-28 23:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
baltec1 wrote:


More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled.


Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#891 - 2017-02-28 23:43:23 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled.


Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.


Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof.

Wormholer for life.

Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#892 - 2017-03-01 00:00:11 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


More than half the ganks that happened in 2013 are not happening today. Clearly ganking is not out of control, its getting strangled.


Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics. We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds. Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years. That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.


Show us the numbers you are referring to. Show us the proof.

I have provided my proof many times. Stop ignoring the trillions in isk lost on zkill ganker reports. Kushion's 10 trillion destroyed vs. 31bil lost satisfies me many times over.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#893 - 2017-03-01 00:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Removed
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#894 - 2017-03-01 00:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics.
Why not? The number of people that Concord kill has a direct relationship with how much suicide ganking is going on. They kill all of the active aggressors involved in a suicide gank, and those kills are recorded.

The suicide ganking figures are probably lower than the graph suggests, a percentage of the people that Concord kill are people making silly mistakes.

Quote:
We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds.
Citation needed for alphas getting wiped out in herds.

Quote:
Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years.
That is irrelevant to the graph, it doesn't display that data, and Baltec1 isn't making any sort of claim about player numbers, he is saying that suicide ganking has been trending down for a while and that the 6 month rolling average of Concord kills has hit an historic low suggests that his claim is true.

If you want to add PCU numbers to it, the data is freely available via Eve-offline.net. Go for it.

Quote:
That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.
It records a statistic over a time period, and that statistic has a relationship with suicide ganking. The fact that the 6 month rolling average is considerably lower than it was 4 years ago is a trend, a downwards one that demonstrates Concord are killing less people than they did 4 years ago, which suggests that there are less suicide ganks happening now than there were then.

One thing that is obvious on the graph is Burn X events, massive spikes of Concord kills and a sizeable bump in the 6 month average.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#895 - 2017-03-01 00:07:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


So how do you explain the fact that ganking is currently at its lowest point in history?



That saves me some time lol.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#896 - 2017-03-01 00:11:27 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Trying to prove the nature of ganking with one statistic that deals with CONCORD kills is not exactly ethical statistics.
Why not? The number of people that Concord kill has a direct relationship with how much suicide ganking is going on. They kill all of the active aggressors involved in a suicide gank, and those kills are recorded.

The suicide ganking figures are probably lower than the graph suggests, a percentage of the people that Concord kill are people making silly mistakes.

Quote:
We all know that when alphas were introduced, the player base increased largely and alphas were getting wiped out in herds.
Citation needed for alphas getting wiped out in herds.

Quote:
Player numbers have also been steadily decreasing over the years.
That is irrelevant to the graph supplied, and the claim that Baltec1 is making. If you want to add PCU numbers to it, the data is freely available via Eve-offline.net. Go for it.

Quote:
That statistic does not say anything about ganking and how it's trending.
It records a statistic over a time period, and that statistic has a relationship with suicide ganking. The fact that the 6 month rolling average is considerably lower than it was 4 years ago is a trend, a downwards one that demonstrates Concord are killing less people than they did 4 years ago, which suggests that there are less suicide ganks happening now than there were then.

One thing that is obvious on the graph is Burn X events, massive spikes of Concord kills and a sizeable bump in the 6 month average.

So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#897 - 2017-03-01 00:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it.
Please, do feel free to enlighten me.

What is wrong with my post? Flippant dismissal without explanation is kinda rude.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#898 - 2017-03-01 00:33:34 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it.
Please, do feel free to enlighten me.

What is wrong with my post? Flippant dismissal without explanation is kinda rude.

I'm not going to repeat myself and me explaining statistics to you don't not benefit the OP in any way.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#899 - 2017-03-01 00:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
So many things wrong with your post that I'm not even going to reply to it.
Please, do feel free to enlighten me.

What is wrong with my post? Flippant dismissal without explanation is kinda rude.

I'm not going to repeat myself and me explaining statistics to you don't not benefit the OP in any way.


So... you've got nothing then.

What does that graph represent, in terms of data recorded?
What do you think that the data plotted shows?
Is there a relationship between how many people Concord kill, how many people are actively participating in suicide ganking, and how much of it they are doing?
If not, why not?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Quinn Hatfield
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#900 - 2017-03-01 02:34:44 UTC
*crickets*

I don't burn bridges, I merely steal a bolt a day.