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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#701 - 2017-02-27 10:06:21 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard.
Actually, you can.

Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value.

So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead?

OK.


speed boat? Straight

since when bulkheads make your JF fast? What?


It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter.

So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart?

Again, OKRoll.


fck this, first you don't know the mechanics, then lore, and now basic mods? fck you dude, you are a fake

bulkheads doesn't make you enter faster or slower for that matter, your align time would be the same, bulkheads adds your hullpoints.

expanded cargo hold as well, it doesn't affect align time.

you might be referring to istab, although i wrote that you replied to jonah, so i don't know. anyway, you are still wrong you mofo, when you are NOT moving (as in when you enter system from jump gates) your accelaration won't be affected by your alignment since you don't need to turn, therefore istab is no use.

again try to learn the game you are trying to play

Just Add Water
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#702 - 2017-02-27 10:06:31 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Wow....how long have you been playing.

A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't.

Cripes...why am I explaining this?

Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand?

Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying.

And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again.


No freighter goes into warp "fast enough" to avoid being bumped if you are over-stuffed and the only guy on field, unless you have a scout who has webs.

But then you maintain using webs is not good game design so we can toss that.

So you anti-tank your ship to enter warp faster and all you do is make it easier to gank.

Good job. Roll



lol he said using webs was poor game design?

even if it wasn't original intended i find it to be great its a powerful way to help a friend using a tool that already existed in the game originally meant to make it easier to kill. stuff like this is why eve's sandbox is great


Basically, using a friend or an alt was not reasonable in HS.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#703 - 2017-02-27 10:07:28 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Wow....how long have you been playing.

A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't.

Cripes...why am I explaining this?

Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand?

Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying.

And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again.


No freighter goes into warp "fast enough" to avoid being bumped if you are over-stuffed and the only guy on field, unless you have a scout who has webs.

But then you maintain using webs is not good game design so we can toss that.

So you anti-tank your ship to enter warp faster and all you do is make it easier to gank.

Good job. Roll

The question is still, why do we have to be in need of others to web a freighter to be able to do the job of transporting things from one system to another in a relatively safe way?

Yes, that should give you some slightly benefits, but it shouldn't be a requirement for using a freighter without getting ganked over and over again by criminals who can just freely keep doing their ganks without any more consequences.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#704 - 2017-02-27 10:10:03 UTC
@Nat.

Sorry dude, bulkheads reduce agility. I'll admit to only having run it through Eve HQ but they do seem to add a few seconds to warp align times.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#705 - 2017-02-27 10:11:51 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters.

You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right?

And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots.

You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. And you use it to because you know the act of ganking others are super easy and super easy to keep doing without any bigger consequences.

So maybe it's not that the freighter pilots are doing things wrong, but that the gankers have it way to easy ganking them?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#706 - 2017-02-27 10:15:06 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
@Nat.

Sorry dude, bulkheads reduce agility. I'll admit to only having run it through Eve HQ but they do seem to add a few seconds to warp align times.


oh, really? then it's a win-win to use bulkheads then and nobody has an excuse for not using them! o7

Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#707 - 2017-02-27 10:17:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters.

You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right?
Get this through your thick skull.

I DON'T GANK

Quote:
And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots.
What else do you call people who put multibillions in their untanked ships and then fly them into a known killing field without any support, or in some cases without even being at the computer?

Quote:
You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can.
That they die because they do stupid things with their freighter is self evident.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#708 - 2017-02-27 10:20:26 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters.

You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right?

And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots.

You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can.


any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period.

Just Add Water
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#709 - 2017-02-27 10:22:14 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
@Nat.

Sorry dude, bulkheads reduce agility. I'll admit to only having run it through Eve HQ but they do seem to add a few seconds to warp align times.


oh, really? then it's a win-win to use bulkheads then and nobody has an excuse for not using them! o7
Indeed.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#710 - 2017-02-27 10:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Get this through your thick skull.

I DON'T GANK

And what makes you think that ANYONE would believe that lie?

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
What else do you call people who put multibillions in their ships and then fly them into a known killing field without any support, or in some cases without even being at the computer?

It haven't gone through your head that the freighter pilots is just doing their job of transporting alot of things that can be worth alot of isk which thr freighter are made to do in the first place?

Just because they transports alot of worthy things (that is their job) doesn't mean the gankers can just keep ganking other times after times without facing harder consequences the more criminal acts they do. Yes, the freighter pilots will still lose freighters like now. The only differences is that the gankers will have a harder time doing the ganks as easily the more they do it.

And secondly, high sec is not supposed to be a killing field outside of a war. It's called high sec for a reason. Yes, it's supposed to be safer there than in low sec and 0.0 space and not a death trap.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
That they die because they do stupid things with the freighter is self evident.

Again, that's just a lame excuse you use because you can. You have no evidences or facts to support that claim on AT ALL. I know about many smart freighter pilots who still get ganked. Because the ganking mechanics in EVE is way to easy to do while at the same time having way to little consequences.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#711 - 2017-02-27 10:26:31 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters.

You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right?

And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots.

You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can.


any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period.

So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place?

OK RollUghLol.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#712 - 2017-02-27 10:30:14 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters.

You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right?

And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots.

You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can.


any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period.

So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place?

OK RollUghLol.


Last I checked, even a fully-tanked freighter can haul more stuff than any other ship in the game, so it doesn't stop you from doing the intended job.

Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#713 - 2017-02-27 10:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Get this through your thick skull.

I DON'T GANK

And what makes you think that ANYONE would believe that lie?
It's no lie, we've already been over this.

You'd better have some evidence the next time you accuse me of being a liar.

Quote:
It haven't gone through your head that the freighter pilots is just doing their job of transposring alot of things that can be worth alot of isk?
If they were doing their job properly they'd have mitigated their risks by using an appropriately fitted ship, limiting their cargo value and having some support available.

Quote:
Just because they transports alot of worthy things (that is their job) doesn't mean the gankers can just keep ganking other times after times without facing harder consequences the more criminal acts they do. Yes, the freighter pilots will still lose freighters like now. The only differences is that the gankers will have a harder time doing the ganks as easily the more they do it.
More nonsense that promotes NPC's taking on tasks that should be done by other players.

Quote:
Again, that's just a lame excuse you use because you can. You have no evidences or facts to support that claim on AT ALL. I know about many smart freighter pilots who still get ganked. Because the ganking mechanics in EVE is way to easy to do while at the same time having way to little consequences.
How do you explain all the morons that enter Jita in freighters during a well publicised event all about killing ships and disrupting trade in Jita?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#714 - 2017-02-27 10:31:01 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters.

You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right?

And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots.

You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can.


any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period.

So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place?

OK RollUghLol.


you forgot the word, 'safely'. anyway, you can't transport goods when you fit bulkheads in your JF? Roll

Just Add Water
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#715 - 2017-02-27 10:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters.

You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right?

And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots.

You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can.


any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period.

So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place?

OK RollUghLol.


Last I checked, even a fully-tanked freighter can haul more stuff than any other ship in the game, so it doesn't stop you from doing the intended job.

Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid.

Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama?

Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#716 - 2017-02-27 10:35:45 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
you forgot the word, 'safely'. anyway, you can't transport goods when you fit bulkheads in your JF? Roll

That's not the point Roll.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#717 - 2017-02-27 10:41:24 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
you forgot the word, 'safely'. anyway, you can't transport goods when you fit bulkheads in your JF? Roll

That's not the point Roll.


i say it is, period.

Just Add Water
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#718 - 2017-02-27 10:43:34 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid.

Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama?

Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things.



Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire.

CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do.

Wormholer for life.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#719 - 2017-02-27 10:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
'taint no lie, we've already been over this.

You'd better have some evidence that I'm a liar the next time you accuse me of being one.

It's a lie until you can prove that you are NOT a ganker. The way you posts here is a big indication that you are in fact a massive ganker.


Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If they were doing their job properly they'd have mitigated their risks by using an appropriately fitted ship, limiting their cargo value and having some support available.

Then they are not doing their job of flying a freighter if they can't do their job of transposting alot of things that the freighter are made to do in the first place. I mean, hello, wake up dude. You are making no sense at all with your excuses.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
More nonsense that promotes NPC's taking on tasks that should be done by other players.

It's not nonsense at all, because it will balance the game towards gankers and it will balance the game towards the freighter pilots or whoever that is a potential gank target to know that the criminals get treated as crinminals and get punished harder the more crimes they do.

It's good for the game to have a criminal system like this, because a criminal is still a criminal who are supposed to be punished hader the more crimes they do. Or how do you think criminals should be treated?

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
How do you explain all the morons that enter Jita in freighters during a well publicised event all about killing ships and disrupting trade in Jita?

Is this about what the freighter pilots do, or are we talking about what consequences the gankers should get / face for keep doing crimes independent of what the freighter pilots do or independent of what system they jump into?

We are talking about how criminals should be punished ONCE they commit a crime and nothing else.
Nat Silverguard wrote:
i say it is, period.

It's not.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#720 - 2017-02-27 10:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid.

Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama?

Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things.



Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire.

CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do.

Yeah, they have to prepeare their freighter for PVP if they intentionally are going through low sec or 0.0 space. That's logic. But we are still talking about freighters in high sec that should be able to do their business with the right ship intended for their job with the right setup intended for the job relatively safely in high sec without having to get ganked every 15 minutes by criminals who doesn't get any more consequences the more they gank.

That's not fair for those who endlessly gets ganked.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama