These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#541 - 2017-02-27 01:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked?


Really you need me to spell it out for you?

Okay.

Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking.

Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it.

No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid.

If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#542 - 2017-02-27 02:00:59 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

No they don't. They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over. Such hard work right there, right?

No, we want to let EVE punish the criminals who break the rules of high sec harder and harder the more crimes they do, like everyone would do.

And read my edit about what the freighter pilots has to do as i edited it after you started to answer me on it.


And as usual the anti-ganker dishonesty comes through.

Lets ignore all the logistics work to get those ships in place. Lets ignore the work of the scanning ships, the bumpers, and the guy pulling CONCORD, the guy suicide scramming, and the fact that it is 25 guys in fleet. All to take down one foolish pilot who put way too much cargo value into his ship.

Yup. It is so easy it practically happens without any effort at all. What a completely dishonest pile of bullcrap.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#543 - 2017-02-27 02:01:57 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked?


Really you need me to spell it out for you?

Okay.

Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking.

Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it.

No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid.

If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point.


What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#544 - 2017-02-27 02:04:06 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
No they don't. They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over. Such hard work right there, right?
Your ignorance is showing.

There is a whole logistics chain associated with suicide ganking, when they move into a new AO they ship in their tools by the hundreds, some poor sap has to fit and distribute them, someone bookmarks and distributes instawarps and safespots, they use scouts, they use warpin ships, they manipulate Concord spawn times while remaining within the rules etc etc.

You only think it's easy because you can't see beyond the end of your nose.

Quote:
And read my edit about what the freighter pilots has to do as i edited it after you started to answer me on it.
I read it, it's nonsense.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#545 - 2017-02-27 02:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer?

And if 20 -10 outlaws jumps in at the same time in a Destroyer avoiding getting caught, then what?

You still don't see the issue?

It's simple. If you want to continue doing crimes in high sec, then fix your security status.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#546 - 2017-02-27 02:08:04 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer?

And if 20 -10 outlaws jumps in at the same time in a Destroyer avoiding getting caught, then what?

You still don't see the issue?

It's simple. If you want to continue doing crimes in high sec, then fix your security status.
If you want to stop them doing crime in hisec, shoot them in the face.

It's that simple.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#547 - 2017-02-27 02:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer?

And if 20 -10 outlaws jumps in at the same time in a Destroyer avoiding getting caught, then what?

You still don't see the issue?

It's simple. If you want to continue doing crimes in high sec, then fix your security status.


Wait, you were complaining about 1 criminal.

Now it is suddenly 10 or even 20. I don't expect you to get this, but the fact that it takes a sizeable number of people to gank a freighter is yet another constraint on ganking.

And no, I don't see the issue, because I am not at all convinced that ganking is a big problem.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#548 - 2017-02-27 02:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Your ignorance is showing.

There is a whole logistics chain associated with suicide ganking, when they move into a new AO they ship in their tools by the hundreds, some poor sap has to fit and distribute them, someone bookmarks and distributes instawarps and safespots, they use scouts, they use warpin ships, they manipulate Concord spawn times while remaining within the rules etc etc.

You only think it's easy because you can't see beyond the end of your nose.

There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a better criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do each day.

It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I read it, it's nonsense.

You only say that because it makes your easy life of a ganker a bit harder.
Teckos Pech wrote:
Wait, you were complaining about 1 criminal.

Now it is suddenly 10 or even 20. I don't expect you to get this, but the fact that it takes a sizeable number of people to gank a freighter is yet another constraint on ganking.

And no, I don't see the issue, because I am not at all convinced that ganking is a big problem.

Yeah, one dude / outlaw was just an example. Because if that gets applies to one outlaw, then every other outlaws will get affected by the same. So because of that, a bunch of gankers can't gank that easily anylonger after comitting crimes before (the same day).

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#549 - 2017-02-27 02:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Lei YingLu wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
@OP
So using this weekend as I'm assuming that is mostly what you are referring to in relation to the post and comments. But for arguments sake, how many of those freighters that died this weekend were triple bulkhead fit?


Check my corp and twitch videos and see what I do on the daily. I by all means am excluding this past burn jita event from the OP. This goon ganking (and I mean big fleets, not little miner ganking) has gone on repeatedly for for the last few month. Sure there has always been ganking, but goons are taking it to a new level staging out of Jita V - moon 17 station. Nothing to do with burn jita event. I havnt even logged in since the burn Jita event started.

Look up all of the people who operate from that staging area on zkill and you will see just how much ganking isk they are getting away with. Follow them for a day and you will see just how hard it is to prevent anything they are doing. AG cant even prevent a freighter from being bumped without going criminal and just have to watch freighters burn to the ground like they are frigates.


If you wouldnt mind, could you please reference me to a few kills?


Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks.

Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita

Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there.

All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week.

Just look at the 5.96t vs 14bil in losses.
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#550 - 2017-02-27 02:12:05 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked?


Really you need me to spell it out for you?

Okay.

Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking.

Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it.

No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid.

If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point.


"should" I really hate it when people use this word. Your entire statement is all opinionated and you are entitled to that. These are things that "should" happen from ganking:

I "should" lose the ship I use to gank
I "should" lose security status
I "should" earn a kill right
I "should" earn a 15 minute criminal timer

Your use of the word should suggests that there is a bug, or a manipulation people are using to perform these acts when in all reality they are legitimate legal tactics. If your going to make an opinion, own it.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#551 - 2017-02-27 02:13:42 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do.

It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated.
Your ignorance is in stating that "They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over."

That is untrue, if you'd have actually read my post you will have seen why it is untrue.

I'm well aware of what a criminal is, and I'm well aware of how the game already penalises them for being one. Hardly ignorant.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#552 - 2017-02-27 02:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do.

It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated.
Your ignorance is in stating that "They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over."

That is untrue, if you'd have actually read my post you will have seen why it is untrue.

I'm well aware of what a criminal is, and I'm well aware of how the game already penalises them for being one. Hardly ignorant.

Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes before you undock your next ship, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy for criminals.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#553 - 2017-02-27 02:21:21 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks.

Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita

Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there.

All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week.


how is that a problem?

If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#554 - 2017-02-27 02:21:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do.

It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated.
Your ignorance is in stating that "They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over."

That is untrue, if you'd have actually read my post you will have seen why it is untrue.

I'm well aware of what a criminal is, and I'm well aware of how the game already penalises them for being one. Hardly ignorant.

Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy.
How did that ship get there?

I'll give you a clue, they have a logistics chain which provides, fits and distributes them, that logistics chain and all the associated activities that ensure the gankers can hop into a prefitted ship and on undock warp to preprovided safespots is where 95% of the effort involved in ganking is.

As I said, you can't see beyond the end of your nose.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#555 - 2017-02-27 02:22:57 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes before you undock your next ship, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy for criminals.


and all those ships have to be bought, hauled and fit.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#556 - 2017-02-27 02:23:44 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks.

Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita

Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there.

All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week.


how is that a problem?

If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs?


STFU
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#557 - 2017-02-27 02:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks.

Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita

Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there.

All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week.


how is that a problem?

If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs?
Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and he's ignoring that the 3 examples he gave contain, in all likelihood, multiple duplicate kills because all 3 parties were involved in them?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#558 - 2017-02-27 02:24:35 UTC
And you cant fly around HS in a Talos without having your sec status fixed.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#559 - 2017-02-27 02:26:38 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Karma Fleet - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - 75+bil in top 7 in last 7 days - + all the non-top 7 ganks.

Gimme Da Loot - https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99006785/ - These guys operate with Karma Fleet most of the time in Jita

Jason Kusion - https://zkillboard.com/character/95034355/ - Used to operate in Uedama mainly solo but since I started raping all his isk he moved to Jita to stage there.

All of these guys have centralized and stage from Jita V - Moon 17 station. Look at the history going back and you will see that their all day everyday ganking brings in xxx billions a week.


how is that a problem?

If it rakes in billions a week its only because freighter pilots are being dumb enough to put it in their cross hairs?
Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills?




im not counting anything... links were asked for.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#560 - 2017-02-27 02:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Who'll give me odds that he's counting the kill value as the amount the gankers get from the kill, and that he's ignoring that the 3 examples he's used have all have a multitude of mutual kills?




im not counting anything... links were asked for.
I beg to differ, you clearly stated 75+ bill for KarmaFleet in the last 7 days for their top 7 killers, where did that number come from?

Was it based on the total value of the kills or the value of the loot?

The loot being the one that matters, because that's where the 10's of billion a day in profit that you claim is being made comes from.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack