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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#461 - 2017-02-27 00:57:39 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Yeah maybe if Jonah is ignorant to history and his surroundings.
That's an oxymoron.
That I'm very aware of my surroundings is why I succeed where others fail, normally while transiting Uedama. You'll have to qualify what you mean by history because overall your statement makes no sense.

Quote:
Not everyone is a mindless sheep.
I'm a mindless sheep because I actually think about how I play? Oh the irony.



Erich Einstein,

You have fallen for one of the classic blunders, the first of which "Never get involved in a land war in Asia", the second is "Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line." And the third, slightly less well known is "Never go up against Jonah Gravenstein who has an endless array of animated gifs to defeat you!"

P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#462 - 2017-02-27 00:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Daichi Yamato wrote:
@Nightmare
Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad.

It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen?

Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#463 - 2017-02-27 00:58:59 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences.


Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status.


Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#464 - 2017-02-27 00:59:11 UTC
This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread.

Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#465 - 2017-02-27 01:00:10 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
@Nightmare
Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad.

It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen?

Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank.


Got any numbers to support that. I don't think I said it wouldn't reduce ganking. I pointed out it gave rise to professional ganking and yet here we are again with Bads™ asking for "one more nerf and it will be balanced."

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#466 - 2017-02-27 01:00:12 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:


No word of a lie, Mining was more fun when i thought i could get ganked at any moment. So i tanked my barge and used ECM drones. It was FUN when the gankers failed because one got jammed and it put them below the damage threshold to kill me. It was even better when the barges next to me (my competition) got killed because they were too greedy to tank their barges properly.

Its now been over a year anyones made an attempt on my barge.

@Nightmare
Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad.


We are glad its fun. OP has no intention of trying to end that fun, just fix the system to deal with out of control goon gank fleets.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#467 - 2017-02-27 01:00:21 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences.


Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status.


Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude.

So the game can only be fun for the gankers?

Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#468 - 2017-02-27 01:01:18 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread.


Well, and lock criminals out of HS.

Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#469 - 2017-02-27 01:02:06 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next?

Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking.


Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird.


I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No.


They are not granting my wishes according to ganking. They are fixing their broke ass security status / faction police system so that it does something meaningful. Goon fleet gankers have shown that it does not work for their type of criminal behavior.


The fact that when faction police are chasing you, you cannot fly anything cruiser or higher as more than likely it will be shot before you could get to an intended target is not meaningful? Imagine the destruction that would ensue if you could that same fleet of 120 people and turn it into 4 talos fleets. So yes ganking with 100+ people in a fleet with destroyers is possible but with Faction Police it greatly reduces your options as far as being able to kill something.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#470 - 2017-02-27 01:02:06 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences.


Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status.


Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude.

So the game can only be fun for the gankers?

Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank?


Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#471 - 2017-02-27 01:02:29 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE.
3 strikes is only policy in one country AFAIK, it has the highest incarceration rate on the planet and people serving long sentences for misdemeanours, it also allows correctional facilities to be run for profit. There are many other problems with the 3 strikes system that I won't go into here because it'd break the rules about political discussion.

Hardly a glowing example of impartial justice, nor a model that anybody else should emulate.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#472 - 2017-02-27 01:03:06 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category.

You didn't answer my question.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#473 - 2017-02-27 01:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
@Nightmare
Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad.

It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen?

Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank.


Got any numbers to support that. I don't think I said it wouldn't reduce ganking. I pointed out it gave rise to professional ganking and yet here we are again with Bads™ asking for "one more nerf and it will be balanced."


Yeah, balance it, not take the fun out of it. They have shown that you can over-eat all day long in highsec and no one in your corp ever has to pay for a sub again. Let the chump freighter pilots pay for it. Even at only hauling a bil max in a freighter, there is plenty of profit to be made when you do it after each 15min timer.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#474 - 2017-02-27 01:03:26 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread.


Well, and lock criminals out of HS.

Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. Roll


Basically lock everyone that is or could be a threat out of "their space" so they can do whatever idiotic thing comes to mind because, hey it's highsec, it should be SAFE

Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#475 - 2017-02-27 01:05:47 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category.

You didn't answer my question.


The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#476 - 2017-02-27 01:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Wander Prian wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread.


Well, and lock criminals out of HS.

Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. Roll


Basically lock everyone that is or could be a threat out of "their space" so they can do whatever idiotic thing comes to mind because, hey it's highsec, it should be SAFE


man, you just like to argue. We have discussed that its about being accountable to your security status if you are a criminal and want to play in highsec all the time. 1 accounts, 3 personalities. You dont need to do everything on your criminal character. There is nothing to get all bent up about.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#477 - 2017-02-27 01:06:01 UTC
No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec.

Is that so hard to understand?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#478 - 2017-02-27 01:06:26 UTC
Ganking doesnt happen anywhere near on the scale it used to.

Ganking miners used to be something everyone did, it used to be profitable. Now not so much. Freighter ganking used to be done by quite a few groups, but now there are only two of any significance. You use to be able to perform two ganks on two different grids with one ship by being aligned before concord showed up.

Maybe one nerf doesnt have a significant effect on ganking, but its quite evident to me that the multitude of nerfs ganking has suffered has had an affect.

-EHP buffs to both miners and freighters
-faster responses from concord
-Nerfs to ganking tactics like hyperdunking and warping away from concord
-Insurance removed
-Suspect timers as oppose to old aggression rules
-Kill rights becoming public

It has most certainly taken its toll, and we've lost players for it.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#479 - 2017-02-27 01:06:46 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
This thread is nothing more than a thinly-veiled "nerf ganking" thread.


Well, and lock criminals out of HS.

Basically turn HS into a carebear wasteland of boring and mind numbing. Sure to get the numbers logging in up. Roll


Basically lock everyone that is or could be a threat out of "their space" so they can do whatever idiotic thing comes to mind because, hey it's highsec, it should be SAFE


My God...they want to turn HS into a U.S. college campus run by a bunch of SJW...could be fun once they all turn on each other....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#480 - 2017-02-27 01:07:21 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category.

You didn't answer my question.


The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun.

Again, do you think the freigher pilots is having fun knowing they can get ganked over and over all day long every 15 minutes because the criminals doesn't get harsher consequences / penalties the more crimes / ganking they do?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama