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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#441 - 2017-02-27 00:44:29 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No.

Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes.

You are factually wrong.

If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal.

Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle.

And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police.

The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks.

Doesn't that sounds fair?


Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

Wormholer for life.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#442 - 2017-02-27 00:45:21 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
You do know this is a game? Certain things are different in here, that you wouldn't do in real life. I doubt you would be going around shooting people in the face in real life, just to have fun.

Fun gameplay > copying real life.

Doesn't matter how much of a game it is. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal, and not like a teddybear farting around causing harms all the time without any consequences.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#443 - 2017-02-27 00:45:26 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract.


Good thing you don't need too. Roll

Yeah, just pay for a scout account, and a webbing account, and you are all set. Oh and preferably three monitors, maybe another freighter account incase you have to pickup your ganked loot. Obviously there is risk as a freighter but gankers treat highsec like the wild west because faction pilots are pussies and the sercuity status system is a joke.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#444 - 2017-02-27 00:46:15 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No.

Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes.

You are factually wrong.

If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal.

Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle.

And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police.

The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks.

Doesn't that sounds fair?


Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

didnt we already have this conversation...
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#445 - 2017-02-27 00:46:58 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract.


Good thing you don't need too. Roll

Yeah, just pay for a scout account, and a webbing account, and you are all set. Oh and preferably three monitors, maybe another freighter account incase you have to pickup your ganked loot. Obviously there is risk as a freighter but gankers treat highsec like the wild west because faction pilots are pussies and the sercuity status system is a joke.


Gankers work as a team or are multiboxing several accounts. If they want to do it well, they will be subscribed accounts. You are complaining that you need 3 accounts to counter 15 accounts...

Wormholer for life.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#446 - 2017-02-27 00:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Wander Prian wrote:
Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#447 - 2017-02-27 00:47:46 UTC

@Nightmare,

But i have. Having gankers around and able to attack us frequently keeps us engaged. Keeps us on our toes. Makes me want to seek other players for safety in numbers. Its thrilling.

Right now im mostly auto-piloting and its boring. Its more fun when i'm carrying ridiculous amounts of stuff and either ask for help or have to make a meaningful choice. Its an adrenaline rush to go through Uedama with 10bil in a freighter on a weekend. That **** is supposed to gets you shot at...and yet i havent been.

Anyways, that danger, that adrenaline rush is addictive. Playing with others creates moments, stories we tell others that makes them want to play this game. Whether they are stories of killing a whale freighter, stories of getting through a gank by the skin of your teeth or stories of preventing a gank with your friends.

Ganking is content. Content means subs. Make it happen more.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#448 - 2017-02-27 00:48:05 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No.

Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes.

You are factually wrong.

If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal.

Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle.

And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police.

The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks.

Doesn't that sounds fair?


Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

didnt we already have this conversation...


We will keep having the same conversation until you make the proof appear to back up your claims of "unbalanced gameplay"

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#449 - 2017-02-27 00:49:54 UTC
Lei YingLu wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next?

Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking.


Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird.


I wasnt talking about you more as the game as a whole. If CCP was going to grant your wish of how ganking mechanics should be, they'd have to listen to the next guy right? Then that guy is going to want even more stringent controls on ganking until it is no longer a thing. There is always someone who's not going to like something and want the game to be changed to suit their needs/wishes. I respect the fact that you didnt request an outright ban on ganking. As far as the Alpha clones not being able to do so I dont agree. I think that they should be able to enjoy every different style of play in the game. Now do I think that an Alpha should be able to sit on the Jita undock with a tornado? No.


They are not granting my wishes according to ganking. They are fixing their broke ass security status / faction police system so that it does something meaningful. Goon fleet gankers have shown that it does not work for their type of criminal behavior.
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#450 - 2017-02-27 00:50:14 UTC
Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#451 - 2017-02-27 00:50:39 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

@Nightmare,

But i have. Having gankers around and able to attack us frequently keeps us engaged. Keeps us on our toes. Makes me want to seek other players for safety in numbers. Its thrilling.

Right now im mostly auto-piloting and its boring. Its more fun when i'm carrying ridiculous amounts of stuff and either ask for help or have to make a meaningful choice. Its an adrenaline rush to go through Uedama with 10bil in a freighter on a weekend. That **** is supposed to gets you shot at...and yet i havent been.

Anyways, that danger, that adrenaline rush is addictive. Playing with others creates moments, stories we tell others that makes them want to play this game. Whether they are stories of killing a whale freighter, stories of getting through a gank by the skin of your teeth or stories of preventing a gank with your friends.

Ganking is content. Content means subs. Make it happen more.

I'm not sure, but i haven't said anything about removing ganking or changing the actual ganking mechanics in EVE. I have said that YOU as a criminal should face harder consequences the more crimes you do. Doing ganking will still be possible all day long, but it will be much harder to successfully do the more you have done it as the police will catch you way faster and kill you much faster as you have pissed off the police for commiting crimes more and more.

Logic101 for you right there.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#452 - 2017-02-27 00:50:59 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No.

Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes.

You are factually wrong.

If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal.

Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle.

And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police.

The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks.

Doesn't that sounds fair?


Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

didnt we already have this conversation...


We will keep having the same conversation until you make the proof appear to back up your claims of "unbalanced gameplay"


please... keep the thread going so that it gains more tracking and attention. I dont mind because the first thing that is read is the OP.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#453 - 2017-02-27 00:52:28 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes.


You are less likely to die in highsec than you are in anywhere else in Eve, with the exception of trade-hubs (if you are carrying too valuable cargo in a ship that isn't tanked enough)

People pay for breaking the rules of highsec. You cannot run from CONCORD. Low security standing limits what they can do in highsec as well. Not to mention giving YOU the ability to shoot at criminals for free. Yet that is not enough for you. If you think that criminals need to be banned from highsec, why should you be allowed to freely travel to lowsec or null? Shouldn't the NPC's stop you from going there as only criminals live there?

Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#454 - 2017-02-27 00:53:23 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Yeah maybe if Jonah is ignorant to history and his surroundings.
That's an oxymoron.
That I'm very aware of my surroundings is why I succeed where others fail, normally while transiting Uedama. You'll have to qualify what you mean by history because overall your statement makes no sense.

Quote:
Not everyone is a mindless sheep.
I'm a mindless sheep because I actually think about how I play? Oh the irony.





In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#455 - 2017-02-27 00:53:37 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


please... keep the thread going so that it gains more tracking and attention. I dont mind because the first thing that is read is the OP.


And then people will laugh out loud, comment how big of an idiot you are and go back to another thread that actually makes any damn sense (very few of those around lately... Must be something in the air after burn jita)

Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#456 - 2017-02-27 00:54:14 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Its not worth it to boat around a svipul fleet that matches the size of goons ganks squad just to protect your lonely freighter who is trying to make 10mil isk per contract.


Good thing you don't need too. Roll

Yeah, just pay for a scout account, and a webbing account, and you are all set. Oh and preferably three monitors, maybe another freighter account incase you have to pickup your ganked loot. Obviously there is risk as a freighter but gankers treat highsec like the wild west because faction pilots are pussies and the sercuity status system is a joke.


Or get a buddy in a rapier....

And right now, there are people out actively hunting Goon fleets.

Wow...more emergence from the sandbox...

P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#457 - 2017-02-27 00:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes.


You are less likely to die in highsec than you are in anywhere else in Eve, with the exception of trade-hubs (if you are carrying too valuable cargo in a ship that isn't tanked enough)

People pay for breaking the rules of highsec. You cannot run from CONCORD. Low security standing limits what they can do in highsec as well. Not to mention giving YOU the ability to shoot at criminals for free. Yet that is not enough for you. If you think that criminals need to be banned from highsec, why should you be allowed to freely travel to lowsec or null? Shouldn't the NPC's stop you from going there as only criminals live there?

Still doesn't change the fact that criminals should be treated like criminals and not like teddybears farting around doing whatever they like to do without any consequences for continuing doing the crimes.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#458 - 2017-02-27 00:55:46 UTC
Lei YingLu wrote:
Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences.


Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#459 - 2017-02-27 00:56:15 UTC


No word of a lie, Mining was more fun when i thought i could get ganked at any moment. So i tanked my barge and used ECM drones. It was FUN when the gankers failed because one got jammed and it put them below the damage threshold to kill me. It was even better when the barges next to me (my competition) got killed because they were too greedy to tank their barges properly.

Its now been over a year anyones made an attempt on my barge.

@Nightmare
Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#460 - 2017-02-27 00:56:47 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair?

No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes.


You are less likely to die in highsec than you are in anywhere else in Eve, with the exception of trade-hubs (if you are carrying too valuable cargo in a ship that isn't tanked enough)

People pay for breaking the rules of highsec. You cannot run from CONCORD. Low security standing limits what they can do in highsec as well. Not to mention giving YOU the ability to shoot at criminals for free. Yet that is not enough for you. If you think that criminals need to be banned from highsec, why should you be allowed to freely travel to lowsec or null? Shouldn't the NPC's stop you from going there as only criminals live there?

Still doesn't change the fact that criminals should be treated like criminals and not like teddybears farting around doing whatever they like to do without any consequences on continuing dpoing the crimes.


There are consequences. Just that you choose not to take advantage of those (shoot them) doesn't mean they aren't there. CCP has given you the tools to take care of criminals in highsec, but if you let them be, it's your own damn fault. This isn't real life, this isn't WoW. If you feel like something needs to be done, then DO IT. Don't expect the game to do it for you.

Wormholer for life.