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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#401 - 2017-02-27 00:12:34 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. Roll

I asked you first.


Daichi is right...you really are childlike. Fine don't believe me. I don't care. Your argument is based on a fallacy anyways. If that is the best you got...you got nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#402 - 2017-02-27 00:13:16 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Yeah, but what about your main forum toon.... 27,000 likes... you gank the **** out of every post that gets made to further your forum career.
Oh wow, you're getting desperate.

A great many of those likes are from a thread in Out Of Pod Experience, the sole purpose of which is to gain likes. I stopped posting in that thread a couple of years ago, the remainder are because people like what I have to say, or because I've amused them.

Deal with it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#403 - 2017-02-27 00:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really.

I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that.


Nope my alts are all pretty combat incapable as they are for making ISK. Roll

I would like to see some proofs on that claim.

Not only that, but you don't have to be much of a PVP character to fit out a Destroyer and gank something. That's something everyone can do.


Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. Roll


I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#404 - 2017-02-27 00:16:08 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yup, you don't have a clue about emergence....
Being clueless appears to be a theme for him.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#405 - 2017-02-27 00:17:06 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that.
You'd be wrong.

1 account, 3 characters.
This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills
My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills
A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills.


Like i said over, you don't have to be much focused into PVP skills to be able to fly a lil Destroyer to be able to gank with it. That's something most players can do in no time.

EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then?
Because a lot of my gameplay involves tilting the odds in my favour against them.

If you penalise them, you penalise me. If you make it more difficult for them to operate, the value of what I do in order to not be a victim is reduced.


if order for you not to be a victim.... Preventing them from over-running highsec by making them more accountable to their criminal actions doesnt not make it harder on you as a victim. That was just dumb.


Okay, let me help you here, although it probably won’t make much effort...but maybe it will make sense down the road or to someone else.

What Jonah is saying is that making it difficult for people to just dump tons of stuff into a freighter and haul it around it creates opportunities for Jonah. Jonah can exploit this by being prudent. While his competition is getting his freighter ganked and half his stuff scooped, Jonah can either buy that stuff from the gankers or he can step in and fill the “economic void” that his competition has created by having half is stuff go “poof” in a ball of fire.

This is an example of emergence. Something coming about without somebody intending it to come about. As Adam Ferguson, the Scottish Enlightenment Philosopher, put it, “Of human action, but not of human design.” The gankers were not intending to create this opportunity for Jonah, but they did.

Take away or reduce the ganking and you reduce Jonah’s opportunities too.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#406 - 2017-02-27 00:17:31 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.


I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced.

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#407 - 2017-02-27 00:17:32 UTC
Lei YingLu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer.

There should be a jump fatigue type of timer for criminals. The more you jump, the more jump fatigue you get. It should be the same for committing crimes. The more you commit crimes, the more timer you get against Concord. And the more crimes you have done to, the more harsher the police will be against you to.

That's how it should be, because criminals are still criminals and nothing else.


Not necessarily, I gank with another one of my characters that has a positive sec status. So if you consider that for committing a crime while I have a negative sec status I should get a longer timer so by that logic I should be able to have a shorter timer because I don't have a criminal sec status.


Yes, if you know how to keep your security status in check, you should be able to do whatever the **** you want.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#408 - 2017-02-27 00:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.


I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced.


How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. For gankers, this is everything you could have ever wanted.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#409 - 2017-02-27 00:19:37 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.


I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced.


Agreed. Best argument so far is, "I don't like it, so stop it."

Which is of course, no argument at all, IMO.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#410 - 2017-02-27 00:20:15 UTC
If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next?

Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#411 - 2017-02-27 00:20:25 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.


I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced.


How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec.


No you can't.

Go get a -10 sec status and try flying a battle ship or a freighter around HS.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#412 - 2017-02-27 00:21:25 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really.

I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that.


Nope. And how would i prove it. I can link every char i have and you'd still try to claim that i'm hiding just one more account. So whats the point?

Your logic is to say that anyone who doesnt want ganking nerfed MUST be a ganker. And you wonder why we cant take you seriously enough to reply to your posts?

We've been very gracious replying to your senseless tripe this far. I honestly don't mind if you can argue your case but i dont think youre even trying.

Endless ganking ruins the game - How? Can you show us this somehow? Because apparently less than 1% of players leaving the game claim ship loss to be the reason. The vast majority of players leaving seemingly do so out of boredom/lack of engagement.

Real Life - Is a good guide everynow and then. But only when backed up with gameplay, other wide CONCORD shouldnt be omnipotent. So what gameplay benefits will come from preventing endless ganking loops?


We've asked you this, but you dont really respond to these points. Still wondering why i want to ignore you?

Erich Einstein wrote:


Thats the thing... its hard to determine which are legit and which are not... Thats they nature of ganks.


A link to a video?
A killmail?

All the Kusions ganks involve 10+ accounts and 10+ ships just on the kill mail. Let alone the scouting, bumping and logistics behind it all.

So yeah, hours of work that few people are pulling off.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#413 - 2017-02-27 00:22:18 UTC
Lei YingLu wrote:
If a mouse is given a cookie, he is bound to want some milk. If he is given the milk, what will he want next?

Quoted from a children's book. The problem being that yes say some or everything you want at the point in time CCP implements. Even after that people will be still crying for nerfs to ganking until ganking is no longer able to be performed in HS. Only then will people stop crying about ganking.


Sorry, I agree with ganking... but yet im the OP owner... weird.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#414 - 2017-02-27 00:23:34 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really.

I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that.


Nope. And how would i prove it. I can link every char i have and you'd still try to claim that i'm hiding just one more account. So whats the point?

Your logic is to say that anyone who doesnt want ganking nerfed MUST be a ganker. And you wonder why we cant take you seriously enough to reply to your posts?

We've been very gracious replying to your senseless tripe this far. I honestly don't mind if you can argue your case but i dont think youre even trying.

Endless ganking ruins the game - How? Can you show us this somehow? Because apparently less than 1% of players leaving the game claim ship loss to be the reason. The vast majority of players leaving seemingly do so out of boredom/lack of engagement.

Real Life - Is a good guide everynow and then. But only when backed up with gameplay, other wide CONCORD shouldnt be omnipotent. So what gameplay benefits will come from preventing endless ganking loops?


We've asked you this, but you dont really respond to these points. Still wondering why i want to ignore you?

Erich Einstein wrote:


Thats the thing... its hard to determine which are legit and which are not... Thats they nature of ganks.


A link to a video?
A killmail?

All the Kusions ganks involve 10+ accounts and 10+ ships just on the kill mail. Let alone the scouting, bumping and logistics behind it all.

So yeah, hours of work that few people are pulling off.


yeah, all owned and operated by Kusion... use twitch and youtube's search features, its amazing what you can find.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#415 - 2017-02-27 00:24:34 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


I'd be happy too, but why dont I just tell you. I have this toon which swoops the **** out of loot all over the map. I have a pvp toon that actively contributes to gank efforts, and a third toon that runs and owns citadels. I dont play favorites, but I also realize that game mechanics are not perfect and need to be fixed when they are abused or dont work effectively in preventing unbalanced gameplay.


I've yet to see any kind of proof of that unbalanced gameplay. All I see is your opinions that something is unbalanced.


How is the fact that criminal behavior is capped at faction police chasing you not proof. Once you get to this point, you can do whatever you want as a criminal without ever really being killed until you want to be killed in highsec. For gankers, this is everything you could have ever wanted.


Because that is not the cap for criminals. The players have the tools to deal with people with low enough security status in highsec, without CONCORD-response. It's just that they CHOOSE not to do anything.

Eve is set up in such a way that the players are supposed to be the worst enemy, not NPC's.

Again, show me proof that there is something unbalanced. So far all I've seen is " I don't want to use the tools that CCP gave me, CCPLS, nerf criminals."

Wormholer for life.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#416 - 2017-02-27 00:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
These words of wisdom are in a current thread in GD.

Corey Fumimasa wrote:
One of Eve's great lowsec industrialists said that "In a game of cat and mouse there is no shame in being the better mouse."
I strive to be a better mouse, because it allows me to evade the cat.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#417 - 2017-02-27 00:25:02 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. Roll

I asked you first.


Daichi is right...you really are childlike. Fine don't believe me. I don't care. Your argument is based on a fallacy anyways. If that is the best you got...you got nothing.

So you don't want to prove what i asked from you.

Ok.

Don't expect anyone to take you seriously then.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#418 - 2017-02-27 00:27:11 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:


EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then?


He has an interest in what is good for the overall game, not his own personal agenda.

And you think it's good overall for the game to let the players who get suicided over and over and over every 15 mins see that the criminals doesn't get punished harder for continuing the criminal activities where they just freely can do that without any risks for them?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#419 - 2017-02-27 00:27:19 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Okay, let me help you here, although it probably won’t make much effort...but maybe it will make sense down the road or to someone else.

What Jonah is saying is that making it difficult for people to just dump tons of stuff into a freighter and haul it around it creates opportunities for Jonah. Jonah can exploit this by being prudent. While his competition is getting his freighter ganked and half his stuff scooped, Jonah can either buy that stuff from the gankers or he can step in and fill the “economic void” that his competition has created by having half is stuff go “poof” in a ball of fire.

This is an example of emergence. Something coming about without somebody intending it to come about. As Adam Ferguson, the Scottish Enlightenment Philosopher, put it, “Of human action, but not of human design.” The gankers were not intending to create this opportunity for Jonah, but they did.

Take away or reduce the ganking and you reduce Jonah’s opportunities too.


Except this is wrong, because people will still gank under the OP proposed changes. Gankers just have to keep thier security status in check to be effective highsec gankers.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#420 - 2017-02-27 00:27:25 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. Roll

I asked you first.


Daichi is right...you really are childlike. Fine don't believe me. I don't care. Your argument is based on a fallacy anyways. If that is the best you got...you got nothing.

So you don't want to prove what i asked from you.

Ok.

Don't expect anyone to take you seriously then.


It doen't matter, you'll just claim I have a fourth or fifth account....short of giving you access to my credit card account, and even then you'll likely say I have yet another account with yet another credit card.

Nope. So knock of this childish bullshit, it is just making you look like an idiot.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online